Postgame thoughts... UNC

[Brooky03]

Right but at the end of the day I want the guy with more upside playing who can actually defend and create a bit as I said in the above post. I’m tired of horrible defense, shot selection, and getting swatted into the stands.

Joe has the potential to, and has, create(d) a bunch of points in a couple minutes. Kadary, right now, does not.

 

[samspann1]

Joe has the potential to, and has, create a bunch of points in a couple minutes.

for which team?

 

[Brooky03]

When I’m watching the offense flows better with him in the game cause he can actually get in the lane and knows what to do with the ball, that alone is more effective in my mind. Joe is an average three point shooter who can’t do anything else. So if you want to say that’s a wash then fine but Kadary is worlds better on D, whereas Joe is a complete liability

The offense did not flow better tonight with Kadary in the game. Kadary makes more of an impact on defense against perimeter teams. Against a post team like UNC, his defensive impact is limited. They got the ball to the post whenever they felt like it, regardless of our lineup.

 

[NorSyr66]

Bottom line....Unc 23 ft we had 12. UNC had 43 rebounds we had 28. We lose!

 

[Brooky03]

for which team?

lulz

 

[kjb120]

Joe has the potential to, and has, create a bunch of points in a couple minutes. Kadary, right now, does not.

Again though whatever good he does on offense which hasn’t been much is completely negated by his defense. Not to mention the horrible shot selection and zero ability to drive.

I really don’t think either of our opinions will change, I’m just tired of mediocrity and below level basketball and we finally have a younger player that looks the part with some promise but instead are force fed Joe who what we see now is probably all he will ever be.

 

[phil77]

The main problem with Kadary is that until he can prove he can hit from outside on occasion defenses will sag off of him and we are playing 4 on 5.

And with Girard in we are playing 4 on 5 on the other side of the court. I think Kadary's defense is way better than Joe's offense.

 

[ORRange]

for which team?

Especially at crunch time. His basketball IQ is terrible, almost as bad as his shot selection.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Kadary is a part of the rotation. He’s a 4 star freshman playing 16-20 minutes a game. That’s rare. Late in games, Boeheim plays the known quantity, the more experienced player. Kadary is a good defender, he’s not MCW. Joe is a bad defender, he’s not Brandon Reese. Joe is a good shooter and can hit NBA 3’s (which are sometimes the best this offense can do); he can’t drive or finish in traffic. Kadary can’t shoot at all but can drive and does alright in traffic.

Joe plays more because the guy who has forgotten more about coaching and winning than any of us will learn in two lifetimes wants him in the court.

What is the part I’m missing?

now i wouldnt mind if he were in the court either. thats fine by me. he can be in the court 40 minutes a game. not sure what he'd be doing there..but to each his own.

 

[cuseincincy]

exactly. KR’s minutes were limited by Buddy putting the team on his back, not by Joe playing too much.

Shhh...thats another thread!

 

[City of Cuse]

Fab Melo was an offensive threat. Center is a much more valuable defensive position than guard. A center is never left unguarded but the defenders can more easily leave a guy like Keita to help out. Nobody guards Kadary on the outside. They play back clogging the middle and wait for him to drive. I like him. Great potential. But he has to improve his outside shooting.

In a perfect world KR will improve his outside shot, but it is a pretty simple scheme to take away that cushion. Have KR set a hard screen for buddy, KRs defender has to hedge, get the ball back to KR and someone is up on him.

 

[CousCuse]

The evidence appears otherwise.

After every game the coaches watch the tape numerous time and take notes on the individual players and have a meeting with them and discuss their decisions. They want him to take those shots because they must believe at some point he is going to start hitting them at a decent percentage which would be a difficult problem for opposing coaches to scheme against. There are not a lot of players that have range like that.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

perhaps we are looking at this all wrong. we were outrebounded by about 100..they had a couple possessions where they had four or 5 cracks at it before they scored or we finally got the ball...we have been playing suboptimal lineups...the wrong players taking the wrong shot at the wrong time...and despite aLL that..we were up 1 with a couple minutes left..

imagine if we were just pathetic instead of putrid at rebounding? imagine if JG finally gets his act together...the team really isn't that far away from being good.

 

[samspann1]

I think Kadary's defense is way better than Joe's offense.

I don't think it's particularly close...it's not a very high bar to clear though

 

[Brooky03]

Again though whatever good he does on offense which hasn’t been much is completely negated by his defense. Not to mention the horrible shot selection and zero ability to drive.

I really don’t think either of our opinions will change, I’m just tired of mediocrity and below level basketball and we finally have a younger player that looks the part with some promise but instead are force fed Joe who what we see now is probably all he will ever be.

His lack of defense and poor shot selection are both overblown, imo. Is his defense poor? Yes. Is the difference between his defense and Kadary’s 15 points per game? No, not even close (before the jokes; no, it’s not more than that). Does he jack up a couple questionable shots per game? Yes. Is it like 5 or 6 per game? No. Is an open NBA 3 in rhythm a bad shot for him? No, it’s not (evidenced by the green light he has to shoot them).

Kadary looks good for a young player. Let’s maybe let him grow into a bigger role instead of, “omg! A tall athletic guard who doesn’t dribble the ball off his knee every 3 seconds! Give him 50 minutes!”

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I don’t think it’s particularly revealing to give KaDary four minutes off the bench, just to say ‘he didn’t do much.’ He needs to play. A lot. He will develop with time and experience, and his confidence is key to that growth. He was a different player earlier in the season, and then it seems that period where we all thought he had Earned the starting spot but he didn’t get it and instead got marginalized... that’s when his effectiveness came back down to earth. Couple that with other coaches recognizing they need to play him for drives and not the outside shot, and you have a still talented kid who needs the playing time to learn and progress.

Even if he’s not 100% clearly better than Joe on any specific night, it should be obvious that Joe has a lower ‘player’ ceiling, even if Joe also has a higher PPG ceiling. We won’t be a better team because Kadary scores more than Joe. We’ll be better because he’s an infinitely better defender, because he sets up other players better, he finishes better, and he runs the offense better. The question is: how soon do we get to KaDary’s potential?

 

[djcon57]

Honestly way too much JG3 v Kadary discussion, not enough Bras v Griffin discussion which was a way bigger issue imo in this game.

 

[kjb120]

His lack of defense and poor shot selection are both overblown, imo. Is his defense poor? Yes. Is the difference between his defense and Kadary’s 15 points per game? No, not even close (before the jokes; no, it’s not more than that). Does he jack up a couple questionable shots per game? Yes. Is it like 5 or 6 per game? No. Is an open NBA 3 in rhythm a bad shot for him? No, it’s not (evidenced by the green light he has to shoot them).

Kadary looks good for a young player. Let’s maybe let him grow into a bigger role instead of, “omg! A tall athletic guard who doesn’t dribble the ball off his knee every 3 seconds! Give him 50 minutes!”

Yes you are right I want the guy who dribbles off his feet and then commits a flagrant foul at one of the most crucial points in the game or drives the lane gets stuck and gives the ball away. Joe was 2-7 with six points so yes I think I would take the better defense in this game and see what happens.

 

[OrangeinDC]

Until Kadary “Second Coming of Jesus” Richmond gets 40 minutes, probably not.

Man... I'm tasting the hatorade

Joe has the potential to, and has, create(d) a bunch of points in a couple minutes. Kadary, right now, does not.

Ahhh, my friend..
Kadary has the potential to, and has, STOPPED a bunch of points in a couple minutes. Joe, right now, Cannot.

 

[Brooky03]

Yes you are right I want the guy who dribbles off his feet and then commits a flagrant foul at one of the most crucial points in the game or drives the lane gets stuck and gives the ball away. Joe was 2-7 with six points so yes I think I would take the better defense in this game and see what happens.

Kadary’s defense wasn’t making a difference in this game. Joe didn’t give the ball away on that play when he was stuck at the rim, FYI. He put up a shot that Griffin boarded and then booted OB. Would Kadary have done better at the rim in that situation? Probably. Would Kadary have gotten to the rim in that situation -noting that the UNC defender would have been playing 10 feet off of him - probably not.

Joe dribbled a ball off his leg and committed a foul during a crucial point. Kadary threw a pass to empty bleachers and allowed a transition layup at a crucial point. Neither is infallible.

 

[Brooky03]

Man... I'm tasting the hatorade

Ahhh, my friend..
Kadary has the potential to, and has, STOPPED a bunch of points in a couple minutes. Joe, right now, Cannot.

One can stop a lot of points in short order but not create them. One can create a bunch of points in short order but not stop them. That’s fair.

And yes, the Haterade for Girard has been flowing. I’m glad you picked up on that. On the other hand, I like Kadary and look forward to him being a big contributor in Orange.

 

[OrangeinDC]

One can stop a lot of points in short order but not create them. One can create a bunch of points in short order but not stop them. That’s fair.

And yes, the Haterade for Girard has been flowing. I’m glad you picked up on that. On the other hand, I like Kadary and look forward to him being a big contributor in Orange.

True Dat!!

I actually like JG, just not starting at the point and playing so many minutes. I mean you don't come into Syr/ACC and average the points he did his freshman year without being a pretty good player.

As a matter of fact, even though we chop it up about KR/JG... There's a whole lotta other things going on!

 

[OrangeinDC]

One can stop a lot of points in short order but not create them. One can create a bunch of points in short order but not stop them. That’s fair.

And yes, the Haterade for Girard has been flowing. I’m glad you picked up on that. On the other hand, I like Kadary and look forward to him being a big contributor in Orange.

I just re-read the first part. That's some deep S..(hut yo mouth)!

 

[Marty McFly]

not sure what was more predictable, getting out rebounded by 900000, Boeheim's presser, or blowing a lead in brutal fashion.

 

[81South]

so sick of this narrative. so then just throw your hands up and give up? rebounding is much more than just who weighs more. its positioning, effort, technique, and more than anything, will. this team can't and never will be good at defensive rebounding because

1. stupid zone.
2. the scheme to rebound out of the zone is either not taught well or the players they recruit year after year after year refuse to be taught it..its one or the other..maybe both.

strictly blaming it on who is fatter is misguided.

given the amount of physicality that players can get away with while rebounding it is not misguided to say that the weight difference plays a huge part in the rebounding disparity. North Carolina always kills us on the glass and what’s the common denominator ... their bigs outweigh ours by 30-50 pounds of muscle not fat.