Preseason Practice...

[M2MPrinciples]

I’ll believe it when I see it, considering how we’ve been burned on our regular season expectations in recent years. However, I listened to Dean’s Twitter Spaces thing the other day and Pat from Syracuse had a report from Monroe Madness and he sounded incredibly bullish on the team based on what he saw. He loves Copeland, Carey and Taylor and thinks the increased athleticism will be a big difference. He thinks we could be top 5 in the ACC. It’s so bizarre to hear JB and Pat actually agreeing on the potential of the team this season!

“We’re going to be in the NCAA Tournament” is such a low bar I don’t know where to start. The last 10 years have completely neutered the program. Whether you want to put it on the move to the ACC, Boeheim getting old(er), the recruiting sanctions or some combination makes no difference.

The surprise Final Four runs were great fun but they conditioned a wide swath of the fanbase to think 18 wins constitutes a good season. Pretty sad stuff to me.

 

[Newhouser]

“We’re going to be in the NCAA Tournament” is such a low bar I don’t know where to start. The last 10 years have completely neutered the program. Whether you want to put it on the move to the ACC, Boeheim getting old(er), the recruiting sanctions or some combination makes no difference.

The surprise Final Four runs were great fun but they conditioned a wide swath of the fanbase to think 18 wins constitutes a good season. Pretty sad stuff to me.

I tend to agree. The bar is definitely set lower.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Multiple fluke ff's would be a step up from what we have seen. The one FF happened 6 years ago.

 

[orangemass]

How so?

He said he would only play freshmen if they help us win. Not to keep them happy. If they want to transfer due to lack of playing time so be it

 

[Sbucketball]

He said he would only play freshmen if they help us win. Not to keep them happy. If they want to transfer due to lack of playing time so be it

I gotcha. Yeah that's not surprising. He's never been the type to coddle a kid. I really hope he doesn't lose a huge portion of this freshman class that is the future of the program. We're slated to be really good in 23-24, and the only thing that could completely ruin that would be numerous disgruntled freshmen transferring after this year.

 

[Consigliere]

So we hear that the freshmen guards are looking very good and that Joe can average 20ppg this year and the takeaways are that Boeheim won’t find minutes for everyone and that Joe will play too many minutes and be inefficient.

I love the positivity of a new season approaching.

 

[orange79]

So we hear that the freshmen guards are looking very good and that Joe can average 20ppg this year and the takeaways are that Boeheim won’t find minutes for everyone and that Joe will play too many minutes and be inefficient.

I love the positivity of a new season approaching.

 

[rrlbees]

So we hear that the freshmen guards are looking very good and that Joe can average 20ppg this year and the takeaways are that Boeheim won’t find minutes for everyone and that Joe will play too many minutes and be inefficient.

I love the positivity of a new season approaching.

Some people are already locked and loaded in mid season form.

 

[Consigliere]

Some people are already locked and loaded in mid season form.

That’s what preseason is for, right?

 

[Orangezoo]

So we hear that the freshmen guards are looking very good and that Joe can average 20ppg this year and the takeaways are that Boeheim won’t find minutes for everyone and that Joe will play too many minutes and be inefficient.

I love the positivity of a new season approaching.

Just win baby. The rest is unimportant. Winning cures all ails

 

[orange79]

Some people are already locked and loaded in mid season form.

That’s what preseason is for, right?

Yeah, but can they sustain it?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Yeah, but can they sustain it?

The more you smash things against the wall in preseason, the less things you’ll have to throw during the actual season.

 

[Niastri]

Some people are already locked and loaded in mid season form.

It's the first losing off-season in two generations... No wonder people are angsty. We aren't Browns fans.

 

[rrlbees]

It's the first losing off-season in two generations... No wonder people are angsty. We aren't Browns fans.

Angst is a kind word.

 

[kcsu]

It's sad how far the program has fallen. Hopefully the kids play well, and we have a solid season. Used to be nice when we had a true chance to win the whole thing. Now we simply hope to make the dance.

 

[billsin01]

“We’re going to be in the NCAA Tournament” is such a low bar I don’t know where to start. The last 10 years have completely neutered the program. Whether you want to put it on the move to the ACC, Boeheim getting old(er), the recruiting sanctions or some combination makes no difference.

The surprise Final Four runs were great fun but they conditioned a wide swath of the fanbase to think 18 wins constitutes a good season. Pretty sad stuff to me.

That's one way to look at it -- and not a wrong way either. Your assessment is correct -- this program has struggled the past 8 seasons (if you go back 10 you're including a 28-6 and 30-10 season). There is no doubt the recruiting has lagged. And, to your point, there are a lot of reasons -- shifting landscape of college sports, massive transfer stuff, sanctions, JB getting older ...

But the other way to look at it is that for basically 40 years we spent most of the time being disappointed if we only won 20+ and lost in the sweet 16 or earlier. That is an incredible blessing. Add to it that the painful stretch of the past 8 seasons actually included a final four, two other sweet 16s, and (so far) just the one losing season and there are still plenty of programs that would take it.

JB is older. He is clearly limping a bit toward the finish of an amazing career. I'm hesitant to expect much out of this group as well. But this is typically how things go. They are cyclical and for a small school in the middle of nowhere upstate NY we've been incredibly fortunate.

None of this makes the past 8 seasons particularly grand or makes the lack of expectations this season any easier to swallow -- but I do hope folks at least appreciate what JB has accomplished here and appreciate how lucky we've been as fans to experience it. I get a little uneasy with all the 'old man' and 'retire already' vitriol on here -- if you have a lifer who is more or less killing it for 40 years, the reality is the end of that story is pretty likely to be disappointing. It's life for the most part (I guess Duke and UK are exceptions -- but there ain't many).

 

[721Comstock]

Yeah, but can they sustain it?

Premature *anything* is bad.
- James Arthur Boeheim

 

[Sherman20]

That's one way to look at it -- and not a wrong way either. Your assessment is correct -- this program has struggled the past 8 seasons (if you go back 10 you're including a 28-6 and 30-10 season). There is no doubt the recruiting has lagged. And, to your point, there are a lot of reasons -- shifting landscape of college sports, massive transfer stuff, sanctions, JB getting older ...

But the other way to look at it is that for basically 40 years we spent most of the time being disappointed if we only won 20+ and lost in the sweet 16 or earlier. That is an incredible blessing. Add to it that the painful stretch of the past 8 seasons actually included a final four, two other sweet 16s, and (so far) just the one losing season and there are still plenty of programs that would take it.

JB is older. He is clearly limping a bit toward the finish of an amazing career. I'm hesitant to expect much out of this group as well. But this is typically how things go. They are cyclical and for a small school in the middle of nowhere upstate NY we've been incredibly fortunate.

None of this makes the past 8 seasons particularly grand or makes the lack of expectations this season any easier to swallow -- but I do hope folks at least appreciate what JB has accomplished here and appreciate how lucky we've been as fans to experience it. I get a little uneasy with all the 'old man' and 'retire already' vitriol on here -- if you have a lifer who is more or less killing it for 40 years, the reality is the end of that story is pretty likely to be disappointing. It's life for the most part (I guess Duke and UK are exceptions -- but there ain't many).

I agree with some your sentiments and appreciate the post. But this is the kind statement that makes me crazy.
“For a small school in the middle of nowhere upstate NY we've been incredibly fortunate.”
Really?
Oh, I didn’t realize Storrs, CT, Lawrence, Kansas, Lubbock, Texas, Spokane, Washington, Champagne, Illinois, Bloomington and West Lafayette, Indiana, Lansing, Michigan, and on and on were bustling metropolises in the center of all the action and areas we couldn’t hope to compete with. Syracuse is the ONLY P5 university in the entire state of New York (the third largest state in the country) and has a fanbase spanning from Buffalo to Albany, Watertown to Binghamton, an area comprising some 6 million people. Not to mention the massive alumni base in the NYC Metro area and Long Island. And for a private school, Syracuse is fairly large. We were a flagship school in the Big East and were courted to join the ACC for good reasons. I wish our fans wouldn’t act like it’s some out-of-the-way backwater. JB has attested for decades about the great advantages of the job—it is a place you can win, as he’s said—and he decided to stay put for that reason.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Just win baby. The rest is unimportant. Winning cures all ails

Not for SU fans. Joe could average 25 points per game, shoot 90/50/40. Throw in 4 assists and a couple of rebounds and some people will want him on the bench to develop other players.

 

[Niastri]

Not for SU fans. Joe could average 25 points per game, shoot 90/50/40. Throw in 4 assists and a couple of rebounds and some people will want him on the bench to develop other players.

Why doesn't he shoot more!?!

 

[pearl31]

I agree with some your sentiments and appreciate the post. But this is the kind statement that makes me crazy.
“For a small school in the middle of nowhere upstate NY we've been incredibly fortunate.”
Really?
Oh, I didn’t realize Storrs, CT, Lawrence, Kansas, Lubbock, Texas, Spokane, Washington, Champagne, Illinois, Bloomington and West Lafayette, Indiana, Lansing, Michigan, and on and on were bustling metropolises in the center of all the action and areas we couldn’t hope to compete with. Syracuse is the ONLY P5 university in the entire state of New York (the third largest state in the country) and has a fanbase spanning from Buffalo to Albany, Watertown to Binghamton, an area comprising some 6 million people. Not to mention the massive alumni base in the NYC Metro area and Long Island. And for a private school, Syracuse is fairly large. We were a flagship school in the Big East and asked to join the ACC for a reason. Don’t act like it’s some out-of-the-way backwater. JB has attested for decades about the great advantages of the job—it is a place you can win, as he’s said—and he decided to stay put for that reason.

yeah as I've been saying for a couple years- by his own standards, if he's being honest, JB's teams have simply not measured up

 

[billsin01]

I agree with some your sentiments and appreciate the post. But this is the kind statement that makes me crazy.
“For a small school in the middle of nowhere upstate NY we've been incredibly fortunate.”
Really?
Oh, I didn’t realize Storrs, CT, Lawrence, Kansas, Lubbock, Texas, Spokane, Washington, Champagne, Illinois, Bloomington and West Lafayette, Indiana, Lansing, Michigan, and on and on were bustling metropolises in the center of all the action and areas we couldn’t hope to compete with. Syracuse is the ONLY P5 university in the entire state of New York (the third largest state in the country) and has a fanbase spanning from Buffalo to Albany, Watertown to Binghamton, an area comprising some 6 million people. Not to mention the massive alumni base in the NYC Metro area and Long Island. And for a private school, Syracuse is fairly large. We were a flagship school in the Big East and asked to join the ACC for a reason. Don’t act like it’s some out-of-the-way backwater. JB has attested for decades about the great advantages of the job—it is a place you can win, as he’s said—and he decided to stay put for that reason.

Fair enough. Good points here. I'd argue that the reason we have that massive fan base has more to do with JB than the school itself -- we sure as hell can't say that about our football team. I mean, we've got fans all over but it's not like hoops where SU fans take over arenas. So when you're talking about a huge fan base -- that is in itself a credit to what JB (and staff, players, admin, etc.) have built the past 5 decades or so.

But, regardless, the fact remains. Being frustrated with where we are is natural. Criticizing JB is not only OK, it's important (even if he hates it) because it's the only thing that validates the praise when we are playing well. But when there's this dismissive edge to everything, it just seems odd to me. It is what it is and when it comes time to figure out the post-JB era the reality is he'll be a difficult act to follow. Everyone feels as though we'll just start winning 25 games a year and pulling in big-name recruits. I hope that's true but I don't know.

 

[Orangezoo]

Not for SU fans. Joe could average 25 points per game, shoot 90/50/40. Throw in 4 assists and a couple of rebounds and some people will want him on the bench to develop other players.

Sure ok.

 

[Sherman20]

Fair enough. Good points here. I'd argue that the reason we have that massive fan base has more to do with JB than the school itself -- we sure as hell can't say that about our football team. I mean, we've got fans all over but it's not like hoops where SU fans take over arenas. So when you're talking about a huge fan base -- that is in itself a credit to what JB (and staff, players, admin, etc.) have built the past 5 decades or so.

But, regardless, the fact remains. Being frustrated with where we are is natural. Criticizing JB is not only OK, it's important (even if he hates it) because it's the only thing that validates the praise when we are playing well. But when there's this dismissive edge to everything, it just seems odd to me. It is what it is and when it comes time to figure out the post-JB era the reality is he'll be a difficult act to follow. Everyone feels as though we'll just start winning 25 games a year and pulling in big-name recruits. I hope that's true but I don't know.

my post wasn’t directed at you specifically, btw. It’s more about my objections to that specific sentiment. I understand the challenges with football b/c high school football isn’t great in NYS, so we don’t have a natural recruiting territory (we need to dominate Jersey again like we did on the 80s and 90s). But in basketball we should always be able to excel. I will also add that I think JB is a brilliant coach and in-game strategist. JB was essentially doing analytics long before it became a staple of the game. He’s mind works so fast and he has so much experience to draw from. The problem with him right now is a lot of the other program stuff, particularly recruiting and roster building and selling a vision for the program. He hasn’t been able to adjust to the new realities. And recruiting (and now the transfer market) is the lifeblood of any program.

 

[billsin01]

my post wasn’t directed at you specifically, btw. It’s more about my objections to that specific sentiment. I understand the challenges with football b/c high school football isn’t great in NYS, so we don’t have a natural recruiting territory (we need to dominate Jersey again like we did on the 80s and 90s). But in basketball we should always be able to excel. I will also add that I think JB is a brilliant coach and in-game strategist. JB was essentially doing analytics long before it became a staple of the game. He’s mind works so fast and he has so much experience to draw from. The problem with him right now is a lot of the other program stuff, particularly recruiting and roster building and selling a vision for the program. He hasn’t been able to adjust to the new realities. And recruiting (and now the transfer market) is the lifeblood of any program.

Agree with all of this. Literally every word. I guess the only thing I react to is the fact that this was the likely end to JB’s run for a long time. It sucks but everyone (not you per se) getting so angry at the guy just throws me off a bit. But I do agree that we’ve struggled for a variety of reasons.