Priority for BE: Strategic Analysis if Big 12 Falls Apart

[arbitragegls]

Like business, surely hope the BE has established a strategy to deal with the upcoming possibilities.
Based on history, the BE probably is sitting with a finger up their ass...so let's have some fun and do it for them...thinking of 'Cuse as our priority:

1. Regardless of Big 12 meltdown or not; what should the BE be doing right now
--what should 'Cuse be recommending to the BE
2. Is it time to split the football teams from the just basketball only teams
--should 2 divisions be established...one including football teams and one for basketball
--if this path followed, how many teams for football division; for basketball division
--should the split be final and the football teams totally split from the BE as we know it
3. Does 'Cuse remain in BE or try to connect with the ACC
4. Which football teams do we go after if Big 12 breaks up
--do the teams come from Big 12 or do we try for some Eastern teams already in other conferences
--Kansas, Kansas State, and Missouri would be great because of their bball status too
--which other teams do we go after
--12-16 teams in football need to be in the BE...otherwise BE may fall short of other super conferences

This is beginning to be a reality...and we have the oppty to play...to fantasize about what we think. Feel free to respond to any of the questions above or all of them...or do we as a whole not really care--I contend the BE has never approached the sport as a business...but we can!

 

[All4SU]

The problem, of course, as we have all identified is that SU's strategic interests may not be consistent with the BE's strategic interests. Consequently, I'm not enthusiastic about the BE throwing more duct tape on this monstrosity.

 

[BlazeOrange]

The problem, of course, as we have all identified is that SU's strategic interests may not be consistent with the BE's strategic interests. Consequently, I'm not enthusiastic about the BE throwing more duct tape on this monstrosity.

Exactly. And it's not just SU.

Who would be spearheading any actions taken by the Big East? As I understand, we have the commish and a football czar (and another czar for hoops/other sports?). Do any of them have the authority to take the initiative on expansion issues? Or do they just act on suggestions from the football schools? If the latter, none of the FB U's are going to promote expansion ideas when their preferred course of action is to secure an invite to another conference.

We have a pretty good idea of some who would likely be left behind after a mass exodus, but right nowevery team in the conference is involved in rumors with at least one and as many as three other homes. Until some of those scenarios play out, there is no one to rally the troops within the BE.

 

[Scooch]

Based on history, the BE probably is sitting with a finger up their ass..

Oh ENOUGH of this horsecrap. There have been reports that the Big East has been active for over a year in pursuing expansion possibilities. Christ, they just added TCU!

The conference is doing what it can, and this 8-year-old meme needs to be put down.

 

[PhatOrange]

Like business, surely hope the BE has established a strategy to deal with the upcoming possibilities.
Based on history, the BE probably is sitting with a finger up their ass...so let's have some fun and do it for them...thinking of 'Cuse as our priority:

3. Does 'Cuse remain in BE or try to connect with the ACC

4. Which football teams do we go after if Big 12 breaks up
--do the teams come from Big 12 or do we try for some Eastern teams already in other conferences
--Kansas, Kansas State, and Missouri would be great because of their bball status too
--which other teams do we go after
--12-16 teams in football need to be in the BE...otherwise BE may fall short of other super conferences

This is beginning to be a reality...and we have the oppty to play...to fantasize about what we think. Feel free to respond to any of the questions above or all of them...or do we as a whole not really care--I contend the BE has never approached the sport as a business...but we can!

The Big East will always be in jeopardy to split apart. Syracuse would never have to worry about anything if it we're a member of the ACC (or obvioulsy Big 10.) Even if the ACC lost a Florida State or Clemson it would obviously still be a strong brand and never in jeopardy of losing it's status. Sign me up for the ACC above any other option.

I see schools like TCU, Kansas, KSU, Mizzou etc as just being temporary.

 

[BlazeOrange]

Oh ENOUGH of this horsecrap. There have been reports that the Big East has been active for over a year in pursuing expansion possibilities. Christ, they just added TCU!

The conference is doing what it can, and this 8-year-old meme needs to be put down.

But that was an 8-team conference competing in a BCS where 12 teams had become the norm. They selected the best team possible without stepping on any toes from their fellow BCS conferences (and also somewhat tied up a team that could theoretically be competition for a superconference spot). And I didn't see any reports about pledges of conference stability being written into the expansion agreement.

The game has now changed. Whatever happens will likely stick for a while and there's going to be one and more likely two losers once the dust settles. Unfortunately, the BE isn't in a position to be too pro-active. The best they can do is make some behind the scenes contingency "offers" to the best schools that could be available. But I doubt many of the individual BE schools would vote to formalize those offers until their individual scenarios play out. And the target schools aren't going to accept a BE spot until their current/potential alternatives run out and they know what BE teams will be remaining to join with.

 

[Alsacs]

I just want this expansion garbage to be over with. Until the football schools split from the basketball schools Syracuse will never be in a stable conference luckily for us though Dr. Gross is proactive and has been working on turning our athletic department into an appealing addition. I do not believe the Big East can survive without a Commissioner who is a football guy first and not part of the Providence College network this conference has always had. How the Big East HQ are in Providence is mind-boggling and just shows where the power is in the conference. The football schools need to be proactive and working on dividing the basketball units the conference has generated in the NCAA Tournament and give the Bball schools the name. If the split would occur MSG would never pick Providence,Seton Hall,Villanova,DePaul, St.John's, Marquette, Georgetown, Notre Dame over Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, Pitt, West Virginia, Cincinnati, South Florida, Rutgers, TCU and whomever was added for the basketball conference tournament. Honestly this hodge-podge conference may work in the short-term, but the best remedy if possible is adding Mizzou, Kansas, Kansas State and the TV contract this conference could generate would surpass or come close to the ACC's 155 million per year.

 

[Scooch]

But that was an 8-team conference competing in a BCS where 12 teams had become the norm. They selected the best team possible without stepping on any toes from their fellow BCS conferences (and also somewhat tied up a team that could theoretically be competition for a superconference spot). And I didn't see any reports about pledges of conference stability being written into the expansion agreement.

The game has now changed. Whatever happens will likely stick for a while and there's going to be one and more likely two losers once the dust settles. Unfortunately, the BE isn't in a position to be too pro-active. The best they can do is make some behind the scenes contingency "offers" to the best schools that could be available. But I doubt many of the individual BE schools would vote to formalize those offers until their individual scenarios play out. And the target schools aren't going to accept a BE spot until their current/potential alternatives run out and they know what BE teams will be remaining to join with.

I'm saying that the Big East did something, and by all accounts is trying to do something more. What else do people want? We're a weak conference trying to make the best of it.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I'm saying that the Big East did something, and by all accounts is trying to do something more. What else do people want? We're a weak conference trying to make the best of it.

they want penn st, nd, bc and maryland along with the original bmw football 8.

 

[GoSU96]

I just want this expansion garbage to be over with. Until the football schools split from the basketball schools Syracuse will never be in a stable conference luckily for us though Dr. Gross is proactive and has been working on turning our athletic department into an appealing addition. I do not believe the Big East can survive without a Commissioner who is a football guy first and not part of the Providence College network this conference has always had. How the Big East HQ are in Providence is mind-boggling and just shows where the power is in the conference. The football schools need to be proactive and working on dividing the basketball units the conference has generated in the NCAA Tournament and give the Bball schools the name. If the split would occur MSG would never pick Providence,Seton Hall,Villanova,DePaul, St.John's, Marquette, Georgetown, Notre Dame over Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, Pitt, West Virginia, Cincinnati, South Florida, Rutgers, TCU and whomever was added for the basketball conference tournament. Honestly this hodge-podge conference may work in the short-term, but the best remedy if possible is adding Mizzou, Kansas, Kansas State and the TV contract this conference could generate would surpass or come close to the ACC's 155 million per year.

How is the fact that there are hoops only schools making the conference "unstable". It's unstable because there is always the potential that one or more members may be approached by the SEC, Big10 or ACC. Going to 12 teams with KU, KSt, and Missouri doesn't magically make that go away. And the basketball schools add value, they don't dilute it. ND and the potential combined football package adds value, it doesn't dilute it.

The BEC greatest asset is the hoops conference.

 

[All4SU]

they want penn st, nd, bc and maryland along with the original bmw football 8.

I want an all-sports, bcs-level, conference with a strong (positive) identity. I want what the Big10, Pac(whatever), SEC, and ACC have. (True the ACC is not as strong as many think, but they have a positive identity as a brand.)

There is and has been the potential for a conference like the Pac10 -- only on the Eastern seaboard. That's what I want. The Northeast alone isn't enough anymore -- not without those aforementioned teams who are never coming back. North to South, Boston to Florida. One conference, all sports. Let's Go.

 

[shantydaze]

Like business, surely hope the BE has established a strategy to deal with the upcoming possibilities.
Based on history, the BE probably is sitting with a finger up their ass...so let's have some fun and do it for them...thinking of 'Cuse as our priority:

1. Regardless of Big 12 meltdown or not; what should the BE be doing right now
--what should 'Cuse be recommending to the BE
2. Is it time to split the football teams from the just basketball only teams
--should 2 divisions be established...one including football teams and one for basketball
--if this path followed, how many teams for football division; for basketball division
--should the split be final and the football teams totally split from the BE as we know it
3. Does 'Cuse remain in BE or try to connect with the ACC
4. Which football teams do we go after if Big 12 breaks up
--do the teams come from Big 12 or do we try for some Eastern teams already in other conferences
--Kansas, Kansas State, and Missouri would be great because of their bball status too
--which other teams do we go after
--12-16 teams in football need to be in the BE...otherwise BE may fall short of other super conferences

This is beginning to be a reality...and we have the oppty to play...to fantasize about what we think. Feel free to respond to any of the questions above or all of them...or do we as a whole not really care--I contend the BE has never approached the sport as a business...but we can!

1. At this point, I am not sure what the Conference, itself can do. The Big East football schools, however, should be meeting to discuss the future of the league. This includes the ADs and the Presidents of the football schools reaching out to the Big 12 schools potentially being left out of the Pac-16 and SEC to gauge their interest in joining the BE in its hybrid form or joining the BE football schools to start a new conference.

2. My knee jerk response is "yes." The football schools need to determine the value of the basketball onlies. To do so, they need to look at the potential broadcast contracts with the basketball schools and potential new all sports members included and not included. My concern would be a much larger football payout, but because of the dilution of the basketball league, a lower basketball payment. Under such a scenario, are the basketball onlies going to do what is best for the league or themselves.

3. Easiest answer of all - SU needs to be talking to the ACC. The last time the ACC expanded, I always had the feeling SU was being pulled into the ACC against its will. It really wanted to stay in the Big East, but because of the changing landscape of college athletics had no choice but to join the ACC. Boston College, on the other hand, seemed to extremely excited about the opportunity to join the ACC. When the ACC had to choose between SU and BC to fill the final spot, it was no surprise it picked BC as it was clear BC wanted to be in the conference. If Syracuse tries to play the same type of game this time around, we could see our spot in the ACC (if there is one) given to UConn, Pitt, or Rutgers.

4. At the very least, the BE football schools should be talking to Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, and Iowa State. I am not sure what Baylor adds to the mix in terms of increasing broadcast rights revenue.

 

[44PRIDE]

SU needs to be courting the ACC and B10 for us to join as a potential new member...

...all the while courting B12 schools to join the Big East.

Period.

 

[Alsacs]

How is the fact that there are hoops only schools making the conference "unstable". It's unstable because there is always the potential that one or more members may be approached by the SEC, Big10 or ACC. Going to 12 teams with KU, KSt, and Missouri doesn't magically make that go away. And the basketball schools add value, they don't dilute it. ND and the potential combined football package adds value, it doesn't dilute it.

The BEC greatest asset is the hoops conference.

Its unstable because the Commissioner instead of being proactive without cause only reacts to keep the status quo. The basketball onlies prevent the football schools from being able to have stability. Notice how all the other 5 BCS conferences are full members. When Miami, BC, and Va Tech left the conference all the Big East had to do was add 3 football schools and remain the same, but because the basketball onlies were paranoid of the Football schools having more members demanded that for every football school added a basketball school be added so there was equality in numbers. Basketball may be the best asset of the BEC, but the only 4 that bring value are Notre Dame, Villanova, St. John's and Georgetown the Big East would still be elite without the basketball onlies espically if Kansas, K-State and Mizzou replaced them.

 

[HtownOrange]

Some of you guys think the ACC is stable. Maybe yes, maybe no. If one team is taken by the SEC, the ACC is severely weakened. The team taken will not be Wake Forest but FSU, or another strong football team. That will cause other teams to look elsewhere, maybe join tsaid first team to leave. Additionally, the ACC is the on the low end of the payscale, remember, the Big East already turned down a deal wherein they would be paid more than the ACC! That said, no Big East team is heded to the ACC so they can take a lesser payday. No non-AQ team will eqivalently replace a good to great football school the ACC has just lost.

In short, if the ACC loses anyone, they are screwed and ripe for picking! The B1G 10 and the Big East may even take a few teams!

Why would Syracuse reject an offer of $14MM - $15MM looking for a $19MM - $23 MM payday turn around and jump to the ACC which makes $11MM?

Also, many on here hate teh hybrid. Yet the hybrid is what places our conference in the largest of markets and enables the TV partners to pay more for our exposure. Why are we in a hurry to dump the same schools that add real cash value to our TV deals? The media agents have freely talked about KEEPING the hybrid!

Also, don't be so down on SU. Across the country, SU has a better brand name than most schools. Most people who watch college football know we have a NC, are #15 in all time wins, had a great recent past, terrible downfall, and Marrone is bringing us back. Do you really believe that Iowa State has better histroy, exposure and opportunity than Syracuse? C'mon, some of you have SU dropping to Div. III and there is a clear chance that we will be back in with the elites.

 

[SmilinBob]

If schools are leaving or are rumored to leave the BE why would someone give them a big TV deal? I'd have to think that who ever pays that cash wants the teams they paid for in return.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Ideally, we will add 3 FB schools, and jettison 4 bball only schools, keeping ND, Nova, GT and SJU. (Goodbye PU, SH, Marquestte and DePaul.) That puts FB at 12, with a championship game, and keeps bball at 16. I am bball first, so my ideal 3 would be Kansas, K St. and Mizzou, but if we could also add BC and MD that would work. We could never get PSU unless ND joins for FB and until Joe Pa passes.

 

[HtownOrange]

If schools are leaving or are rumored to leave the BE why would someone give them a big TV deal? I'd have to think that who ever pays that cash wants the teams they paid for in return.

The schools rumored to be leaving are allegedly leaving to go to the Big 12 and ACC. These rumors are from writers and bloggers who want the Big East to fail, not from serious sources. No one has explained why any Big East team would leave a lucrative contract coming up to join a flakey unstable conference controlled by Texas or why the same Big East school would be leaving to the ACC for half the money and controlled by the North Carolina four.

If, by chance, you are referring to WVU to the SEC, then you may have an argument, but WVU would be down the list of desired schools due to the small market and proximity. FSU (national brand, brings much of FL that UF does not bring), Clemson (history, good fan base), VPI, UNC, NC State, Virginia - all from much larger states/markets, which indicates that at least one would take the SEC slot. Also, Mizzou should be in that mix and they have a loyal fanbase with a triple market share of WVU.
That leaves the B1G 10, which has denied any expansion plans at this time. I do agree that you should not trust Jim Delaney any further than you can throw the Dome, but until there is some legitimate evidence that the B1G 10 is set to expand - and in which direction(s) - there is little sense in walking around in a defeatist malaise. Besides, if you plan and act like the Big Boys, the more attention from those same Big Boys you will draw. If Syracuse keeps wining and Dr. Gross keeps up the NYC association, the B1G 10 will have to consider Syracuse. AAU no longer is a full requirement, they knew outright that Nebraska was going to get the boot and they still accepted them. They took a serious look at SU las go round but, let's face it, our football stank! Marrone has us winning again and the B1G 10 likes that! Plus, Syracuse commands a market share far beyond the Syracuse TV viewing area, they get credit for nearly everything north of NYC and a fraction of NYC. Upstate alone is around the 10th largetst population if it was its own state, another factor that the B1G notices, bigger than NJ!

So I ask again, why would we, or any Big East team for that matter, want the ACC? Please be specific, give details, and cite real sources not some goofball writing to get hits on a blog. We are in a better position than most people think.

 

[SmilinBob]

First of all I didn't say a BE was leaving but that for the TV deal to happen there would have to be certain assurances the league and the product they are paying stay in tact. I don't pretend to know the inner workings of the conferences but just common sense for who ponies up the cash for a huge TV deal.

A&M is leaving the Big 12 for the SEC. Now the next move by the SEC is the key and if it's 1 ACC team they have to look for one to add. If it's WV the BE does.. If it's Missouri then the Big 12 is in huge trouble.

The Big 10 will pick who they want and when they want except for ND unless they are forced to go because the BE broke up or some other reason.

 

[HtownOrange]

Follow your reasoning: if the SEC takes an ACC School, which team in the Big East is going to want to head there for less money, control by the Carolina Four and weakened football (we can agree that the SEC will select a team based on fanbase, market, history, national profile). :noidea:

I already explained WVU to the SEC.

Agree on the Mizzou/Big 12.

Completely agree that the B1G 10 will do what it wants when it wants and is not on anyone else's time schedule (much like the SEC).

Anyway, just my opinion. Not worth a deep argument. I still believe we, both Syracuse and the Big East, are in a much better position than most people give us credit for.

 

[jasjr]

If the ACC becomes weakened by a departure we should be thinking about BC and Maryland as said above by Capt. Tuttle.
Along with BC and Maryland, get Kansas K State and Mizou. Nine plus these five are 14. PSU and ND wont come so I say go out and get Army and Navy!!
History, tradition, great wide fan base, tv market and appeal and just a good idea.
I also agree with getting rid of the four bbal schools listed above.