Problem is not McDonald

[OrangeBlood]

Earlier this year, I posted that I believed the problem was the coaches and not the talent. Well after watching more games, I believe that the talent is the problem and that the scheme/play calling is a reflection of the players on the field.

The problem continues to be lack of play-makers on offense. This has been the problem (besides last year) for a very long time. There is not one player on that offense that other teams have to game-plan specifically to play against. Jerome and PTG are nice players but not absolute studs, our o-line may be the best weapon we have.

The design and play calling has been far from good, but I believe he is trying to mask the extreme weaknesses we have at the skill positions.

Under Hackett, who has been a competent NFL coordinator, the offense struggled until Nassib became a true threat behind center. Hackett/Marrone had a great design, but it took Nassib to execute it and execute it brilliantly for the offense to be successful.

This team's QB and WR play is significantly worse than what they had last year and comparable to what Hackett started with.

I love Marrone, I have made that clear in the past, but his lack of recruiting play-makers hurt his offenses and hurts this current offense. This has been talked about enough in the past.

Fact is, Estime may be dynamic in the future, but he is not a star yet, West is an average possesion reciever, Clark is an ok slot, #3 guy, Kobena is a one trick pony, Wales is serviceable when healthy, Hunt has potential but has limited arm talent. None of these guys are difference makers in the ACC.

Over the last ten years we have had less than 5 true offensive playmakers: Mike Williams, Ryan Nassib, Walter Reyes? Deleone Carter?Alec Lemon? anybody think anymore...

Until guys that McDonald has recruited himself like K.Williams, Long or hopefully Ishmel make it here, we will have a consistently mediocre offense. If those guys are dynamic and McDonald can still not get a functioning offense, then he is the problem.

 

[Rocco]

I disagree to an extent. While McDonald has shown some signs, the fact that he doesn't give Jerome more run is simply baffling. Jerome is far away a better runner, carries more power, can break tackles and seems to always get positive yardage due to his north-south running style. He has shown the ability to kick out off-tackle and show a nice burst as well. PTG has had a few nice, long runs this year, but I am not impressed with him most of the time running between the tackles or on a sweep.

Not really sure what's going on here, but that is a glaring problem to me.

Also, why have a dropback on 3rd and long and then run out of the pistol on 3rd and short with a delayed handoff?

 

[OrangeBlood]

I disagree to an extent. While McDonald has shown some signs, the fact that he doesn't give Jerome more run is simply baffling. Jerome is far away a better runner, carries more power, can break tackles and seems to always get positive yardage due to his north-south running style. He has shown the ability to kick out off-tackle and show a nice burst as well. PTG has had a few nice, long runs this year, but I am not impressed with him most of the time running between the tackles or on a sweep.

Not really sure what's going on here, but that is a glaring problem to me.

Also, why have a dropback on 3rd and long and then run out of the pistol on 3rd and short with a delayed handoff?

Jerome definitely needs more carries, but I don't think more carries for him solves their problems.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

A good coach builds a system around the players he has. Why do you think the 2010 team ran the Power I over and over again?

 

[Doc5120]

I disagree to an extent. While McDonald has shown some signs, the fact that he doesn't give Jerome more run is simply baffling. Jerome is far away a better runner, carries more power, can break tackles and seems to always get positive yardage due to his north-south running style. He has shown the ability to kick out off-tackle and show a nice burst as well. PTG has had a few nice, long runs this year, but I am not impressed with him most of the time running between the tackles or on a sweep.

Not really sure what's going on here, but that is a glaring problem to me.

Also, why have a dropback on 3rd and long and then run out of the pistol on 3rd and short with a delayed handoff?

Jerome carried it a dozen times. Agreed, not nearly enough for my liking. Give him the ball & let him wear down defenses. However, I was happy to see Estime so heavily involved this game. He's a big play waiting to happen.

 

[Rocco]

Jerome definitely needs more carries, but I don't think more carries for him solves their problems.

Certainly doesn't solve all of their problems (WR), but will help alot. Syracuse is a very good running team, led by several good OLinemen paving. Jerome has proved to be the #1 guy IMO, so give him 80% of the carries versus 50%.

 

[Timonen]

there's some baffling things going on irrespective of talent. continued runs across the formation to the outside that could never develop. play action passes on third and long. no designed integration of tight ends. confused players and penalties coming out of time outs.

i can't rationalize this stuff. i'm chalking it up to him learning...but things like play action on third and long are just a waste. weird.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I disagree to an extent. While McDonald has shown some signs, the fact that he doesn't give Jerome more run is simply baffling. Jerome is far away a better runner, carries more power, can break tackles and seems to always get positive yardage due to his north-south running style. He has shown the ability to kick out off-tackle and show a nice burst as well. PTG has had a few nice, long runs this year, but I am not impressed with him most of the time running between the tackles or on a sweep.

Ive thought this as well but over the last 2 years it's become evident that Rome gets winded really easily. I would love to see him get 8 carries on a drive but it appears he needs a breather after 2 or 3. Anyone else see this as well?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm going to make so many assumptions -

McDonald can't really do the things he wants to do because of the QB and WR limitations, thus the immediate emphasis on recruiting those positions. He's cobbling together what he can, but it's difficult because 1) the talent isn't there and 2) that's forcing him to call things that aren't his tendencies, which in this case is a bad thing.

 

[Millhouse]

A good coach builds a system around the players he has. Why do you think the 2010 team ran the Power I over and over again?

this offense is better than 2010's in yards per game. granted, that's not worth much when you throw this many picks

 

[NovaOrange]

[Under Hackett, who has been a competent NFL coordinator, the offense struggled until Nassib became a true threat behind center. Hackett/Marrone had a great design, but it took Nassib to execute it and execute it brilliantly for the offense to be successful.
You had me up until this part. I think he is the worst OC in the NFL and has cost the Bills at least two games this year.

 

[TheCusian]

[Under Hackett, who has been a competent NFL coordinator, the offense struggled until Nassib became a true threat behind center. Hackett/Marrone had a great design, but it took Nassib to execute it and execute it brilliantly for the offense to be successful.
You had me up until this part. I think he is the worst OC in the NFL and has cost the Bills at least two games this year.

He's been working with his 3rd and 4th string QB's - there are not a lot of OC's that would look good playing with them. The fact that they look competent even a part of the time is reason to hope. And I hate the Bills.

 

[chakka3421]

I'm not sure why people don't understand the cool kids offensive strategy - my perception so far - he is a pass first OC based upon his background as a WR position coach - power running doesn't look to be in his DNA. Just not sexy enough for him.

He likes the high risk high reward passing plays but inherited a dink & dunk passing game to go along with the power run game that Marrone & company set up - and Marrone being an OLine player & coach wanted to re-establish that tradition here at Syracuse - the power run attack.

My view is Hunt would have done very well in Marrone's system using the power run game along side with a short passing game with outlet passing to TEs & RBs. Almost completely opposite in terms of what the cool kid wants to do.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm not sure why people don't understand the cool kids offensive strategy - my perception so far - he is a pass first OC based upon his background as a WR position coach - power running doesn't look to be in his DNA. Just not s e x y enough for him.

He likes the high risk high reward passing plays but inherited a dink & dunk passing game to go along with the power run game that Marrone & company set up - and Marrone being an OLine player & coach wanted to re-establish that tradition here at Syracuse - the power run attack.

My view is Hunt would have done very well in Marrone's system using the power run game along side with a short passing game with outlet passing to TEs & RBs. Almost completely opposite in terms of what the cool kid wants to do.

We're on the same page, chakka.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

We're on the same page, chakka.

So in other words, his ego doesn't allow him to run an offense that will actually work?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So in other words, his ego doesn't allow him to run an offense that will actually work?

No, not at all.

 

[OrangeBlood]

I'm not sure why people don't understand the cool kids offensive strategy - my perception so far - he is a pass first OC based upon his background as a WR position coach - power running doesn't look to be in his DNA. Just not s e x y enough for him.

He likes the high risk high reward passing plays but inherited a dink & dunk passing game to go along with the power run game that Marrone & company set up - and Marrone being an OLine player & coach wanted to re-establish that tradition here at Syracuse - the power run attack.

My view is Hunt would have done very well in Marrone's system using the power run game along side with a short passing game with outlet passing to TEs & RBs. Almost completely opposite in terms of what the cool kid wants to do.

Agree on this. The WRs are just not good enough for him to get it done though and we are seeing the result.

 

[Millhouse]

So in other words, his ego doesn't allow him to run an offense that will actually work?

2009-2011 wasn't that long ago, people

if we could only have run an offense like we did back then when the offense sucked just as much but differently

the fan base has spoken, they want the SU offense to suck in ways to which they're accustomed. don't suck in any new way, new guy

if marrone thought hunt would've done well in marrone's offense, he would not have been running the scout team

 

[NovaOrange]

He's been working with his 3rd and 4th string QB's - there are not a lot of OC's that would look good playing with them. The fact that they look competent even a part of the time is reason to hope. And I hate the Bills.

A. He has one of the best backfields in the NFL to lean on you can get by when you have that.
B. The Bills defense carries this team, without them our offense gets even more exposed.
C. He tends to run the same play over and over every week. He is not a good OC and I will stand by that till the end. I have watched every game this year and he finally learned to call a screen this past week. It was a big day for him
D. Thad Lewis is better then people think. Tuel does blow I will give you that

 

[OttoinGrotto]

the fan base has spoken, they want the SU offense to suck in ways to which they're accustomed. don't suck in any new way, new guy

That's a really funny way to put it.

 

[All4SU]

A. He has one of the best backfields in the NFL to lean on you can get by when you have that.

He does? In which NFL exactly does a third or fourth string QB and a RB with one leg qualify as "one of the best?"

 

[NovaOrange]

He does? In which NFL exactly does a third or fourth string QB and a RB with one leg qualify as "one of the best?"

You mean the one legged RB who ran for over a 100 yards last week? Or the team who ranks 6th in rushing in the NFL? Watch the play calling and honestly tell me he is doing a good job. If you haven't watched all the games you really have zero room to make a comment.

 

[TheCusian]

You mean the one legged RB who ran for over a 100 yards last week? Watch the play calling and honestly tell me he is doing a good job. If you haven't watched all the games you really have zero room to make a comment.

To win in the NFL, you have to a competent QB. The end. They've been stringing together 3rd string, 4th string, rookie - and Kolb for one half? Are kidding me? I don't care if you have Barry and Emmitt back there, you're not going to win a lot of games.

You don't need to watch every Bills game to know that - you just need to watch one NFL game between any two teams.

He should be judged by how well he does when they have EJ a whole season in 2014.

 

[Millhouse]

To win in the NFL, you have to a competent QB. The end. They've been stringing together 3rd string, 4th string, rookie - and Kolb for one half? Are kidding me? I don't care if you have Barry and Emmitt back there, you're not going to win a lot of games.

You don't need to watch every Bills game to know that - you just need to watch one NFL game between any two teams.

He should be judged by how well he does when they have EJ a whole season in 2014.

if they keep losing, they should be judged by how well he does when they have the guy they drafted over EJ

they'll never do it but they should

 

[RF2044]

Feels chicken v. egg to argue about whether its better to implement an offense even if you don't have the right personnel, just to get the system in place, or whether its better to adapt the system to the players you have.

Both sides have been argued for and against quite a bit on this forum in recent years.