PS article very telling

[OttoinGrotto]

It seems crazy to me to try and plan for your opponent collapsing, instead of, you know, trying to actually score lots of points in the first 3 quarters.

I just friggin' HATE the "we'll set 'em up" mentality. Just try to win at all times when you're playing crappy teams like USF.

Yup. This is why I've stopped watching the games. We don't play to seize the moment. It's always about later, and not surprisingly, once later comes we're out of it.

 

[kingottoiii]

what's the difference between last year's game plans and this year's game plans?

both years it's we need to run the ball, shorten the game, and hope we don't fall behind

game plan talk is only interesting when it changes.

it just happened to work last year because the defense was more talented.

Thats the point. This is a different team. We don't have DC3 and Bart. We lost a lot on D. He is coaching to last year's strengths and this year's weaknesses.

 

[kingottoiii]

Again, establish your offensive identity and build around it. Get your players the reps, repetition. Make average players great in one area. It's what good coahes do. Being tough? That goes without saying. Average lineman can become great at pass blocking, flexbone, average wide receivers can play faster when they have a scheme BURNED in their brains. Listen to any coach who has had sucess at this level, they will will all tell you the same thing. Johnson, Rich Rod, Leach C Kelly.. All these guys have coachedwith less talent at some point and won a lot of games, especially Leach and Johnson. Kelly at UNH as the O coordinator. Bellotti just found a coordinator that was too good and they ran him out, LOL

You want and NFL scheme, go recruit NFL talent

That is a huge issue IMO. We have no identity. No brand. The players can't become good at anything because there is no plan. We have heard people say this isn't his real O. Well how are the underclassmen going to execute his real O if they are only getting reps with this one? Doesn't that stunt development?

 

[Rocco]

The issue with the gameplans so far this year, besides the WVU anomoly, is that they are playing not to lose versus playing to win. Conservative as all hell. Trying to run the gameclock down, but they can't get 1st downs. Forcing yourself into 3rd and longs is not going to win games.

 

[Millhouse]

Yup. This is why I've stopped watching the games. We don't play to seize the moment. It's always about later, and not surprisingly, once later comes we're out of it.

it seems completely stupid to spend way more time posting about a game you don't watch

you missed a good wvu game

 

[OttoinGrotto]

it seems completely stupid to spend way more time posting about a game you don't watch

False.

Posting is fun. The games are not.

Rational.

 

[SoBristol]

Thats the point. This is a different team. We don't have DC3 and Bart. We lost a lot on D. He is coaching to last year's strengths and this year's weaknesses.

This is mostly true. We won last year with a limited offense and a defense that could create turn-overs and get sacks. Offense rarely put up 20 points, with the exception of the bowl game when the slippery conditions made it difficult for the defenders.
It is somewhat naive to believe that this bunch could use a pass-first approach and produce a much better result. We use a run-first conservative offense because we don't have play-making WRs (Lemon being an exception in the past two games) and don't have useful RBs other than Bailey. Marrone wants to get into good 3rd down situations, limit turn-overs, and use short throws to move the chains. He has to make the defense respect the run to have any chance of opening a passing game. I know that hasn't worked, I know our OL isn't overpowering, and I know there are occasions when Nassib has done OK when given more of a green light to pass. But I also know our OL isn't great at pass-blocking, our WRs don't create a lot of separation, and our RBs other than Bailey are limited as pass-receivers. It is a matter of choosing between two alternatives -- neither of which is a sure winner with the talent on hand.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't even understand what Marrone is trying to do at this point. So our strategy was a power running game and "quick" passing game (whatever the hell that is) and then we were to spread it out in the red zone keying on Lemon. Huh? We are soooo overthinking things, IMHO. IF we were actually having success with a power running game why wouldn't we just pound the damn ball all the way into the end zone? Why do we need to wait 'til we're in the red zone to spread things out? If we expect it to work then, why not spread things out before we get into the red zone too? And my God, we haven't done ANYTHING "quick" this year unless we're trailing by 2 TD's. I guess he meant "short", and yes, we've done a -ton of that, typically to no real success.

Not saying I completely agree with the game planning, but I think I do know enough about X's and O's to maybe know where Marrone is coming from (whether anyone agrees with it).

USF has more speed than us and is quicker. On offense you don't run away from speed, you run at it. But if the plan was changing that plan when getting into the red zone, I kind of understand that too because when you get into the red zone the speed factor isn't as big. Just trying to understand his thinking.

 

[Millhouse]

Thats the point. This is a different team. We don't have DC3 and Bart. We lost a lot on D. He is coaching to last year's strengths and this year's weaknesses.

It all comes from not believing in the passing game. Hethinks Bailey is the relative strength of the offense, he's not concerned about macpherson and he still doesn't believe in Nassib. Losing a lot on D doesn't factor in - it's not like the offense was terrible last year on purpose.

the people who think nassib's good are going to hate his game plan.

as for me, i'm just hoping we don't have another year of it.

 

[OrangeMojo]

This is mostly true. We won last year with a limited offense and a defense that could create turn-overs and get sacks. Offense rarely put up 20 points, with the exception of the bowl game when the slippery conditions made it difficult for the defenders.
It is somewhat naive to believe that this bunch could use a pass-first approach and produce a much better result. We use a run-first conservative offense because we don't have play-making WRs (Lemon being an exception in the past two games) and don't have useful RBs other than Bailey. Marrone wants to get into good 3rd down situations, limit turn-overs, and use short throws to move the chains. He has to make the defense respect the run to have any chance of opening a passing game. I know that hasn't worked, I know our OL isn't overpowering, and I know there are occasions when Nassib has done OK when given more of a green light to pass. But I also know our OL isn't great at pass-blocking, our WRs don't create a lot of separation, and our RBs other than Bailey are limited as pass-receivers. It is a matter of choosing between two alternatives -- neither of which is a sure winner with the talent on hand.

well, that limited offense/defense approach is 1-6 in the last 8 BE games (not including this year's WVU game as they opened things up there) with the only win being a nail biter against an even more offensively inept 2010 Rutgers team.

so basically I don't give a crap if it's naive to think a pass first scheme would produce a better result as the current result is to lose and lose ugly week in and week out in conference. It doesn't work. I want to see them try something different because not passing first is 1-6 in its last 7 conference games and it's driving away fans.

This team is incapable of making other BCS teams respect the run - it's a pipe dream. When you can't run it down Tulane and Rhode Island's throats - time to move on to the next thing and at least give it a shot.

 

[Aweart23]

It all comes from not believing in the passing game. Hethinks Bailey is the relative strength of the offense, he's not concerned about macpherson and he still doesn't believe in Nassib. Losing a lot on D doesn't factor in - it's not like the offense was terrible last year on purpose.

the people who think nassib's good are going to hate his game plan.

as for me, i'm just hoping we don't have another year of it.

Or the people who are supposed to catch the balls Nassib is throwing in the passing game...

 

[OttoinGrotto]

well, that limited offense/defense approach is 1-6 in the last 8 BE games (not including this year's WVU game as they opened things up there) with the only win being a nail biter against an even more offensively inept 2010 Rutgers team.

so basically I don't give a crap if it's naive to think a pass first scheme would produce a better result as the current result is to lose and lose ugly week in and week out in conference. It doesn't work. I want to see them try something different because not passing first is 1-6 in its last 7 conference games and it's driving away fans.

This team is incapable of making other BCS teams respect the run - it's a pipe dream. When you can't run it down Tulane and Rhode Island's throats - time to move on to the next thing and at least give it a shot.

Right on.

 

[kingottoiii]

It all comes from not believing in the passing game. Hethinks Bailey is the relative strength of the offense, he's not concerned about macpherson and he still doesn't believe in Nassib. Losing a lot on D doesn't factor in - it's not like the offense was terrible last year on purpose.

the people who think nassib's good are going to hate his game plan.

as for me, i'm just hoping we don't have another year of it.

That is utter BS. The O has looked best this year when we have put the ball in Nassib's hands. If the coaches really believe what you say then they should be fired ASAP.

 

[Millhouse]

Or the people who are supposed to catch the balls Nassib is throwing in the passing game...

nah, it's nassib. he's fine with provo, lemon, and graham. and chew gets open downfield, they don't expect him to be some possession receiver - they gave up trying to get him the ball downfield for the most part. he doesn't believe in the WR enough to go 4 wide, but they're not why they want to run down people's throats

 

[Millhouse]

That is utter BS. The O has looked best this year when we have put the ball in Nassib's hands. If the coaches really believe what you say then they should be fired ASAP.

the offense looked best against WVU where they ran the ball down their throats. go look up the box score. that's their blueprint

 

[Aweart23]

the offense looked best against WVU where they ran the ball down their throats. go look up the box score. that's their blueprint

And when the receivers caught the ball...The only one they are fine with catching the ball is Provo..Why do you think he's breaking single season records for SU tight ends?

Lemon has come on the last two games...Graham has been iffy all year. Chew has issues with press coverage...

 

[Millhouse]

And when the receivers caught the ball...The only one they are fine with catching the ball is Provo..Why do you think he's breaking single season records for SU tight ends?

Lemon has come on the last two games...Graham has been iffy all year. Chew has issues with press coverage...

some people look at WVU and think AHA they need to throw more!

when really WVU just doesn't know how to cover tight ends because they don't have any to practice against.

meanwhile, SU pushed them around, ran first, and ran for 200 yards. but people are aghast that marrone looks at the team's best performance and thinks "hey, let's try that"

it's one thing to think he's all wrong and that we would be better if nassib threw more but it's just stupid to say that we've actually seen games where they are better when he throws more. K State and WVU - that's marrone's blueprint.

 

[kingottoiii]

the offense looked best against WVU where they ran the ball down their throats. go look up the box score. that's their blueprint

Well now you are flat out lying. The game was essentially over after the 3rd Q with it 35-16. At that point Nassib had thrown it 28 times for 202 yards and 3 TDs. If you don't trust your QB you don't throw it 28 times in 3 Qs. We also had 29 rushes at that point for a whopping 104 yards. So we were getting 3.59 ypc. The running game wasn't working.

 

[Aweart23]

some people look at WVU and think AHA they need to throw more!

when really WVU just doesn't know how to cover tight ends because they don't have any to practice against.

meanwhile, SU pushed them around, ran first, and ran for 200 yards. but people are aghast that marrone looks at the team's best performance and thinks "hey, let's try that"

it's one thing to think he's all wrong and that we would be better if nassib threw more but it's just stupid to say that we've actually seen games where they are better when he throws more. K State and WVU - that's marrone's blueprint.

I'm not saying they need to throw the ball more...I'm saying the lack of confidence in the passing game is absolutely related to the drops from the current crop WR's and TE's..

I know I know...its all Nassib's fault

 

[Cadillac]

Yup. This is why I've stopped watching the games. We don't play to seize the moment. It's always about later, and not surprisingly, once later comes we're out of it.

"If I've lost OttointheGrotto, I've lost Middle America."

 

[RoysRunts]

what's the difference between last year's game plans and this year's game plans?

both years it's we need to run the ball, shorten the game, and hope we don't fall behind

game plan talk is only interesting when it changes.

it just happened to work last year because the defense was more talented.

Every BE Team they played last year had 1. A New Coach
2. A New or Injured Qb
3. or they had an inexpeirenced Defense or some inner turmoil
When they play Cincy their Top QB is out again.

 

[Millhouse]

Well now you are flat out lying. The game was essentially over after the 3rd Q with it 35-16. At that point Nassib had thrown it 28 times for 202 yards and 3 TDs. If you don't trust your QB you don't throw it 28 times in 3 Qs. We also had 29 rushes at that point for a whopping 104 yards. So we were getting 3.59 ypc. The running game wasn't working.

So you discount the yards they pick up late on the ground? marrone's goal is wear people down. they were in great down and distance all day.

 

[kingottoiii]

So you discount the yards they pick up late on the ground? marrone's goal is wear people down. they were in great down and distance all day.

You said we looked good vs WV because of our running game. You were proven wrong and now you are playing with words. 99.9% of HCs would run the ball in the 4th Q up 19 to run clock. This is silly, even for you.

 

[Millhouse]

You said we looked good vs WV because of our running game. You were proven wrong and now you are playing with words. 99.9% of HCs would run the ball in the 4th Q up 19 to run clock. This is silly, even for you.

so their effectiveness running the ball with a lead shouldn't influence marrone in future games?

if you want to discount things, we got a big lead from WVU not covering tight ends. unlike the geniuses here, marrone is smart enough to know that's not exactly repeatable.
he liked what he saw from the running game in the 4th quarter more than the passing game in the 3rd.

that game was all about favorable down and distance from the running game and uncovered tight ends, followed by pounding them in the 4th

 

[SoBristol]

well, that limited offense/defense approach is 1-6 in the last 8 BE games (not including this year's WVU game as they opened things up there) with the only win being a nail biter against an even more offensively inept 2010 Rutgers team.

so basically I don't give a crap if it's naive to think a pass first scheme would produce a better result as the current result is to lose and lose ugly week in and week out in conference. It doesn't work. I want to see them try something different because not passing first is 1-6 in its last 7 conference games and it's driving away fans.

This team is incapable of making other BCS teams respect the run - it's a pipe dream. When you can't run it down Tulane and Rhode Island's throats - time to move on to the next thing and at least give it a shot.

Sure, but you are guilty of wishful thinking if you just assume an aerial circus would have produced a better result, without considering what this team has as strengths or flaws. Nassib put it up 46 times against South Florida for 297 yds -- lots of passing attempts, but he was also 50% in completion percentage and all that passing did not put up many points.
So, the fall-back argument is usually that Marrone should have gone pass-first in the first two series, and of course, that would have changed the complexion of the game. Can't prove or disprove that. What we know is that a balanced attack, with lots of running, beat West Virginia; and we know that incomplete passing against UConn stalled the drives in the fourth quarter.
I do agree, though, with trying some different things -- like Marrone did at the end of his first season, ditching the bubble screens, then using Bailey as a wing back, and running counters off the threat of Carter up the middle. What you try needs to be grounded on what your players can actually do -- we don't have Carter to get 5 yards off-guard, but we also don't have Mike Williams to beat coverage.