Class of 2021 QB Riley Leonard (AL) Portal from Duke

[RMH44]

Lamson is our guy and I’m happy to be in position to get him but I agree, stats don’t paint the whole picture. Some HS coaches put a heavy emphasis on running the ball too. Especially if that’s the strength of the team. A good QB can throw for less than 1500 yards, show good efficiency then excels when he gets to a college team that throws the ball a lot. I didn’t check but how many pass attempts did Riley have per game?

Tomcat posted in the Lamson thread that Riley only completed 59.3% of his passes. That is the one stat that really stood out to me.

 

[money3189]

Tomcat posted in the Lamson thread that Riley only completed 59.3% of his passes. That is the one stat that really stood out to me.

Completion percentage was the first thing i saw too. There’s a lot that goes into that as well. It still doesn’t tell you what his overall potential will be in a particular college system. Again, not saying HS stats don’t matter. Just saying it doesn’t show the whole picture.

 

[timkay99]

Great question -- because HS stats don't account for variation -- in quality of competition, in quality of teammates, etc. Two kids having comparable tools, but playing against different competition or with teammates who aren't on par, doesn't paint an accurate comparison. Example -- someone playing in against teams chock full of other D1 caliber prospects in Florida / Texas / California / Ohio is a lot different than a QB playing in CNY. Another example -- a kid playing with a D1 P5 WR or TE prospect might have much different stats than another QB not playing alongside that type of talent. Someone playing with such a teammate might have their stats inflated at the HS level, but not be as "good" of a D1 prospect. Which is why HS stats can be misleading.

Someone could throw for 100 yards against top notch competition, or 300 yards against lesser competition -- who performed better? Comparing stats alone doesn't tell the full story vis a vis potential / effectiveness / readiness. A kid with lesser stats could be equally as strong of a prospect, based upon such circumstantial variation. And for the record -- competition level isn't the end all / be all either. A kid could be immensely talented, but just so happen to play somewhere that isn't a hotbed of football talent. That doesn't detract from their potential, it just emphasizes that stats alone don't paint the full picture at the HS level.

I'm not putting down Lamson -- love his potential. I'm just suggesting that HS stats alone don't provide much insight.

Great response, especially with why HS stats can be misleading. This is one of my more favorite topics to discuss.

I was a recruiter at a NAIA school for baseball, so you really have to identify players and look at all data/cast a wide net. Obvious caveat, baseball is an individual sport disguised as a team sport while football really requires the team around you to be good and doing the right thing to capitalize on your talent on each play. So, if any sport should have statistics with recruiting validity, it should be baseball.

Every year, would get the top statistical performers in our state (as submitted by their own HS coaches) from a 3rd party website across all classes. Would always track those kids and see what they can do. Probably about 10 % of them could actually play and maybe 1 % of them were unknown and I could get in early. Which is why after I left coaching and took over scouting for a 3rd party company, I utilized in-game video very heavily.

Stats will lie to you and get you in trouble as an evaluator. Not just competition stats, but measurables stats as well (these tend to get lost in these conversations). Going football analogy, a guy may have a great 40, but can't read his offensive lineman or takes too long to accelerate to utilize that top-end speed.

The true meaning behind HS stats? Get an evaluator to take a look at you. If you put up good stats, they will, at the very minimum, take a peek at your tape or try and get you to a free camp (at least at the NAIA/D2 level) while giving your HS coach a little ammunition to try and get eyes out to you (the real purpose behind the HS coach and recruiting - making sure the schools that you evaluate your players' talent level being for are aware of his existence) with some film.

Reading anything into collegiate potential based on stats is going to get you in trouble, as there is no substitute for in game film - not highlight film (I could expound on this for another 5 paragraphs with personal stories and observations, but don't want to derail this thread).

 

[money3189]

Great response, especially with why HS stats can be misleading. This is one of my more favorite topics to discuss.

I was a recruiter at a NAIA school for baseball, so you really have to identify players and look at all data/cast a wide net. Obvious caveat, baseball is an individual sport disguised as a team sport while football really requires the team around you to be good and doing the right thing to capitalize on your talent on each play. So, if any sport should have statistics with recruiting validity, it should be baseball.

Every year, would get the top statistical performers in our state (as submitted by their own HS coaches) from a 3rd party website across all classes. Would always track those kids and see what they can do. Probably about 10 % of them could actually play and maybe 1 % of them were unknown and I could get in early. Which is why after I left coaching and took over scouting for a 3rd party company, I utilized in-game video very heavily.

Stats will lie to you and get you in trouble as an evaluator. Not just competition stats, but measurables stats as well (these tend to get lost in these conversations). Going football analogy, a guy may have a great 40, but can't read his offensive lineman or takes too long to accelerate to utilize that top-end speed.

The true meaning behind HS stats? Get an evaluator to take a look at you. If you put up good stats, they will, at the very minimum, take a peek at your tape or try and get you to a free camp (at least at the NAIA/D2 level) while giving your HS coach a little ammunition to try and get eyes out to you (the real purpose behind the HS coach and recruiting - making sure the schools that you evaluate your players' talent level being for are aware of his existence) with some film.

Reading anything into collegiate potential based on stats is going to get you in trouble, as there is no substitute for in game film - not highlight film (I could expound on this for another 5 paragraphs with personal stories and observations, but don't want to derail this thread).

Great perspective. Thanks for sharing

 

[wfschrec]

If you want an idea as to why stats don’t matter look at Tate Martell vs Sam Hartman on the QB1 series. Look at the teams they played on and compare the skill of Hartmans team vs Martells and now look at how the two have done at the collegiate level. Kudos to Wake for identifying Hartman, that kid is good.

 

[PhatOrange]

Great response, especially with why HS stats can be misleading. This is one of my more favorite topics to discuss.

I was a recruiter at a NAIA school for baseball, so you really have to identify players and look at all data/cast a wide net. Obvious caveat, baseball is an individual sport disguised as a team sport while football really requires the team around you to be good and doing the right thing to capitalize on your talent on each play. So, if any sport should have statistics with recruiting validity, it should be baseball.

Every year, would get the top statistical performers in our state (as submitted by their own HS coaches) from a 3rd party website across all classes. Would always track those kids and see what they can do. Probably about 10 % of them could actually play and maybe 1 % of them were unknown and I could get in early. Which is why after I left coaching and took over scouting for a 3rd party company, I utilized in-game video very heavily.

Stats will lie to you and get you in trouble as an evaluator. Not just competition stats, but measurables stats as well (these tend to get lost in these conversations). Going football analogy, a guy may have a great 40, but can't read his offensive lineman or takes too long to accelerate to utilize that top-end speed.

The true meaning behind HS stats? Get an evaluator to take a look at you. If you put up good stats, they will, at the very minimum, take a peek at your tape or try and get you to a free camp (at least at the NAIA/D2 level) while giving your HS coach a little ammunition to try and get eyes out to you (the real purpose behind the HS coach and recruiting - making sure the schools that you evaluate your players' talent level being for are aware of his existence) with some film.

Reading anything into collegiate potential based on stats is going to get you in trouble, as there is no substitute for in game film - not highlight film (I could expound on this for another 5 paragraphs with personal stories and observations, but don't want to derail this thread).

Spot on...great post

and in my experience sometimes game stats are fudged. I would utilize the in-game video to.

I think good evalators need to watch full game film and naturally go watch full games in person. You need to see the good with the bad.

 

[007]

Great response, especially with why HS stats can be misleading. This is one of my more favorite topics to discuss.

I was a recruiter at a NAIA school for baseball, so you really have to identify players and look at all data/cast a wide net. Obvious caveat, baseball is an individual sport disguised as a team sport while football really requires the team around you to be good and doing the right thing to capitalize on your talent on each play. So, if any sport should have statistics with recruiting validity, it should be baseball.

Every year, would get the top statistical performers in our state (as submitted by their own HS coaches) from a 3rd party website across all classes. Would always track those kids and see what they can do. Probably about 10 % of them could actually play and maybe 1 % of them were unknown and I could get in early. Which is why after I left coaching and took over scouting for a 3rd party company, I utilized in-game video very heavily.

Stats will lie to you and get you in trouble as an evaluator. Not just competition stats, but measurables stats as well (these tend to get lost in these conversations). Going football analogy, a guy may have a great 40, but can't read his offensive lineman or takes too long to accelerate to utilize that top-end speed.

The true meaning behind HS stats? Get an evaluator to take a look at you. If you put up good stats, they will, at the very minimum, take a peek at your tape or try and get you to a free camp (at least at the NAIA/D2 level) while giving your HS coach a little ammunition to try and get eyes out to you (the real purpose behind the HS coach and recruiting - making sure the schools that you evaluate your players' talent level being for are aware of his existence) with some film.

Reading anything into collegiate potential based on stats is going to get you in trouble, as there is no substitute for in game film - not highlight film (I could expound on this for another 5 paragraphs with personal stories and observations, but don't want to derail this thread).

Great post, thanks timkay99

 

[Ernj]

Lamson is our guy and I’m happy to be in position to get him but I agree, stats don’t paint the whole picture. Some HS coaches put a heavy emphasis on running the ball too. Especially if that’s the strength of the team. A good QB can throw for less than 1500 yards, show good efficiency then excels when he gets to a college team that throws the ball a lot. I didn’t check but how many pass attempts did Riley have per game?

I agree. This reminded me of Ryan Nassib at Malvern Prep. Malvern ran a run heavy offense and Nassib did not put up a ton of stats. But he ended up being a pretty good QB at SU and went to the NFL.

Nassib's junior and senior season stats:

2006​	Ryan Nassib	68-130​	1,402​	52.3​	17​
2007​	Ryan Nassib	79-144​	1,237​	54.9​	8​

Similar to Leonard. Leonard stats:
2019: 102-172 / 1,231 yrds / 8 TDs

 

[money3189]

I agree. This reminded me of Ryan Nassib at Malvern Prep. Malvern ran a run heavy offense and Nassib did not put up a ton of stats. But he ended up being a pretty good QB at SU and went to the NFL.

Nassib's junior and senior season stats:

2006​	Ryan Nassib	68-130​	1,402​	52.3​	17​
2007​	Ryan Nassib	79-144​	1,237​	54.9​	8​

Similar to Leonard. Leonard stats:
2019: 102-172 / 1,231 yrds / 8 TDs

Good example.

 

[sutomcat]

Good example.

Malvern Prep ran the Winged T while Ryan was their QB. They might have been the last HS in the country to run it. Pretty sure that affected his numbers.

Friends and rivals remember Malvern Prep's Gamp Pellegrini

Classy. Legend. Amazing. Those were some of the words used to describe former Malvern Prep football coach Gaspare "Gamp" Pellegrini.

www.inquirer.com

Ex-Malvern Prep quarterback Ryan Nassib will present challenge for Temple

Steve Addazio's eyes grew wide when he was asked this week about Syracuse quarterback Ryan Nassib. "He's a first-round draft pick," said Addazio, whose Temple football team hosts the Orange on Friday at Lincoln Financial Field.

www.inquirer.com

From the film I saw of Leonard, his HS ran a fairly standard scheme.

I hope both of these guys end up having great college careers.

 

[rackman18]

Time to move from this Duke Dude.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Time to move from this Duke Dude.

Waaay past time. Its disheartening watching some in our fanbase play the "stalker ex-gf" role. He's moved on- we should too.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Great response, especially with why HS stats can be misleading. This is one of my more favorite topics to discuss.

I was a recruiter at a NAIA school for baseball, so you really have to identify players and look at all data/cast a wide net. Obvious caveat, baseball is an individual sport disguised as a team sport while football really requires the team around you to be good and doing the right thing to capitalize on your talent on each play. So, if any sport should have statistics with recruiting validity, it should be baseball.

Every year, would get the top statistical performers in our state (as submitted by their own HS coaches) from a 3rd party website across all classes. Would always track those kids and see what they can do. Probably about 10 % of them could actually play and maybe 1 % of them were unknown and I could get in early. Which is why after I left coaching and took over scouting for a 3rd party company, I utilized in-game video very heavily.

Stats will lie to you and get you in trouble as an evaluator. Not just competition stats, but measurables stats as well (these tend to get lost in these conversations). Going football analogy, a guy may have a great 40, but can't read his offensive lineman or takes too long to accelerate to utilize that top-end speed.

The true meaning behind HS stats? Get an evaluator to take a look at you. If you put up good stats, they will, at the very minimum, take a peek at your tape or try and get you to a free camp (at least at the NAIA/D2 level) while giving your HS coach a little ammunition to try and get eyes out to you (the real purpose behind the HS coach and recruiting - making sure the schools that you evaluate your players' talent level being for are aware of his existence) with some film.

Reading anything into collegiate potential based on stats is going to get you in trouble, as there is no substitute for in game film - not highlight film (I could expound on this for another 5 paragraphs with personal stories and observations, but don't want to derail this thread).

Please, derail. What you're talking about his far more interesting.

Unless something amazingly unforeseen happens, Leonard ain't coming here, so this is a great thread to derail.

 

[cuse10]

Why is this thread still open? It should be locked.

 

[bigmike]

 

[CuseLegacy]

Why is this thread still open? It should be locked.

Y'all can Just put the thread on ignore if it bothers you.

 

[Frozen]

Duke names Leonard as starting QB vs. Temple

Duke quarterback Riley Leonard has won a competition with Jordan Moore to serve as the Blue Devils' starter, coach Mike Elko announced.

www.espn.com

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[cusefan88]

Following Elko to A&M?

 

[klemmer56]

Following Elko to A&M?

That or ND.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

WHOA Leonard

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[orangeinohio]

Might as well go out and get a nice paycheck.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I feel bad for all of these teams and fans. You build relationships with these kids and then they jump ship. I guess it’s what it is. I believe SU was the runner up in his recruitment out of high school.

 

[orangefog]

How would he end up at Notre Dame if they can't contact him. It would be a touchdown Jesus miracle!!!