Class of 2021 QB Riley Leonard (AL) Portal from Duke

[MSOrange]

This is a debate you can't win until we at least get a few QB's in to the NFL.

Exactly. They have names they can say have gotten to the NFL. We don't.

 

[Newhouser]

Riley’s coach for the past 7 years is a Cutcliffe protege.

I'm aware thanks. Talking bigger picture.

 

[NJCuse97]

Sources told me he was disappointed over the size of the scoreboard and hated the new cursive helmet, that's what really pushed him to Duke.

Top of my head, Duke, Florida, ‘Ole Miss, and I think Oklahoma State and Iowa State have all had cursive on a helmet. They get QBs. That doesn’t hold up to scrutiny... scoreboard maybe.

 

[NJCuse97]

Well - every QB on that list not named Manning went on to do nothing (Jones still a TBD) in the NFL - so either he's good at developing Mannings into NFL QBs or Archie develops great QBs and Cutt was lucky enough to be at their schools when they were in college.

The Manning kids went to Cutt. Peyton not going to 'Ole Miss was a big deal. 'Ole Miss hiring Cutt to make sure Eli went there was also a big deal. Mannings holding their passing camp at Duke is not coincidental.

 

[TheCusian]

Losing a southern kid to Cutcliffe is not a black eye

 

[JKinPhilly]

Top of my head, Duke, Florida, ‘Ole Miss, and I think Oklahoma State and Iowa State have all had cursive on a helmet. They get QBs. That doesn’t hold up to scrutiny... scoreboard maybe.

Hopefully that was a sarcastic response to my sarcastic post...

 

[Nick44]

Riley’s ranking on TOS is an 89, almost makes him a 4 star. Nice salt in wound.

 

[NJCuse97]

Hopefully that was a sarcastic response to my sarcastic post...

It was

 

[rackman18]

We lost the kid, he committed elsewhere lets move on.

 

[bnoro]

The Manning kids went to Cutt. Peyton not going to 'Ole Miss was a big deal. 'Ole Miss hiring Cutt to make sure Eli went there was also a big deal. Mannings holding their passing camp at Duke is not coincidental.

The Mannings don't hold their passing camp at Duke. It's at Nicholls State.

 

[orangefog]

The Mannings don't hold their passing camp at Duke. It's at Nicholls State.

Oh great, now we have to worry about Nicholls State.

 

[DoctorBombay]

We lost the kid, he committed elsewhere lets move on.

Seriously.
It’s not that deep. There are legit reasons why this 3-star QB chose to go elsewhere, let’s not over analyze it.
NEXT, for the love of all things holy, mercifully NEXT!!

 

[hoopsupstate]

It’s time this thread is closed.

 

[bnoro]

Wasn't this kid unranked before he chose Duke? Kid commits and they elevate him to the 21st best Dual Threat QB in the country? There's no way his tape is better than Lamson.

 

[#FRANchise]

Wasn't this kid unranked before he chose Duke? Kid commits and they elevate him to the 21st best Dual Threat QB in the country? There's no way his tape is better than Lamson.

Lamson is the 18th best dual threat QB in TOS's ranking, Leonard 27th

In the composite it is flipped... Lamson 31, Leonard 23. Another site must have Lamson rated really low...

 

[sutomcat]

Lamson is the 18th best dual threat QB in TOS's ranking, Leonard 27th

In the composite it is flipped... Lamson 31, Leonard 23. Another site must have Lamson rated really low...

Lamson threw for around 3100 yards last season. Leonard threw for 1200 some yards, I think it was 1241. Leonard ran for more yards. I think he had 800 something while Justin he 400 something.

Hard to understand how any QB who threw for 1241 yards and 7 TDs passes or so in a season, could be ranked above a QB with such superior numbers. Especially when you see the film of the two. Leonard might develop into a good passer. If anyone can make it happen, it is Cutcliffe. But you really have to use your imagination when you struggle to average 100 yards passing per game (Leonard’s HS played 11 games his junior season).

For the record, Lamson’s team played 14 games last season. His team was ranked the 21st best in CA by Maxpreps. Leonard’s team was ranked the 54rd best team in Alabama by the same web site. Leonard’s team got killed in their playoff game. Lamson’s team won 3 playoff games, got to the state championship and lost a close game (38-32).

 

[money3189]

Lamson threw for around 3100 yards last season. Leonard threw for 1200 some yards, I think it was 1241. Leonard ran for more yards. I think he had 800 something while Justin he 400 something.

Hard to understand how any QB who threw for 1241 yards and 7 TDs passes or so in a season, could be ranked above a QB with such superior numbers. Especially when you see the film of the two. Leonard might develop into a good passer. If anyone can make it happen, it is Cutcliffe. But you really have to use your imagination when you struggle to average 100 yards passing per game (Leonard’s HS played 11 games his junior season).

For the record, Lamson’s team played 14 games last season. His team was ranked the 21st best in CA by Maxpreps. Leonard’s team was ranked the 54rd best team in Alabama by the same web site. Leonard’s team got killed in their playoff game. Lamson’s team won 3 playoff games, got to the state championship and lost a close game (38-32).

Great stat breakdown. I also get a big sense of comfort knowing Notre Dame's Ian Book was coached by the same HS coaches. Brian Kelly was high on him from the start. Book sent other high ranked QB's home with their transfer papers in hand.

 

[RF2044]

Lamson threw for around 3100 yards last season. Leonard threw for 1200 some yards, I think it was 1241. Leonard ran for more yards. I think he had 800 something while Justin he 400 something.

Hard to understand how any QB who threw for 1241 yards and 7 TDs passes or so in a season, could be ranked above a QB with such superior numbers. Especially when you see the film of the two. Leonard might develop into a good passer. If anyone can make it happen, it is Cutcliffe. But you really have to use your imagination when you struggle to average 100 yards passing per game (Leonard’s HS played 11 games his junior season).

For the record, Lamson’s team played 14 games last season. His team was ranked the 21st best in CA by Maxpreps. Leonard’s team was ranked the 54rd best team in Alabama by the same web site. Leonard’s team got killed in their playoff game. Lamson’s team won 3 playoff games, got to the state championship and lost a close game (38-32).

Tomcat, the one thing I'll caution is that comparing stats from the HS level doesn't amount to much.

I agree with some of the rest of your analysis. I think Leonard had the right tools, which is why our staff [and Cutcliffe] identified and prioritized him early.

Lamson has the same attributes -- tools, athleticism, feel, vision -- and we pivoted nicely after missing out on Leonard. I'm not disappointed by how things turned out -- would have loved Leonard, but we got someone equally as strong of a prospect.

 

[Killdozer]

Tomcat, the one thing I'll caution is that comparing stats from the HS level doesn't amount to much.

I agree with some of the rest of your analysis. I think Leonard had the right tools, which is why our staff [and Cutcliffe] identified and prioritized him early.

Lamson has the same attributes -- tools, athleticism, feel, vision -- and we pivoted nicely after missing out on Leonard. I'm not disappointed by how things turned out -- would have loved Leonard, but we got someone equally as strong of a prospect.

Can you elaborate on why comparing high schools don't amount to much? I feel comparing stats based on competition says a lot about a QB. I realize that coaching makes a difference but, if the kid has the right tools you would think a coach would take full advantage. Throwing for 100 yards per game is not a lot if the QB is extremely talented.

 

[RF2044]

Can you elaborate on why comparing high schools don't amount to much? I feel comparing stats based on competition says a lot about a QB. I realize that coaching makes a difference but, if the kid has the right tools you would think a coach would take full advantage. Throwing for 100 yards per game is not a lot if the QB is extremely talented.

Great question -- because HS stats don't account for variation -- in quality of competition, in quality of teammates, etc. Two kids having comparable tools, but playing against different competition or with teammates who aren't on par, doesn't paint an accurate comparison. Example -- someone playing in against teams chock full of other D1 caliber prospects in Florida / Texas / California / Ohio is a lot different than a QB playing in CNY. Another example -- a kid playing with a D1 P5 WR or TE prospect might have much different stats than another QB not playing alongside that type of talent. Someone playing with such a teammate might have their stats inflated at the HS level, but not be as "good" of a D1 prospect. Which is why HS stats can be misleading.

Someone could throw for 100 yards against top notch competition, or 300 yards against lesser competition -- who performed better? Comparing stats alone doesn't tell the full story vis a vis potential / effectiveness / readiness. A kid with lesser stats could be equally as strong of a prospect, based upon such circumstantial variation. And for the record -- competition level isn't the end all / be all either. A kid could be immensely talented, but just so happen to play somewhere that isn't a hotbed of football talent. That doesn't detract from their potential, it just emphasizes that stats alone don't paint the full picture at the HS level.

I'm not putting down Lamson -- love his potential. I'm just suggesting that HS stats alone don't provide much insight.

 

[orangepassion]

I thought Leonard had potential, but looked very raw as a passer. Lamson's tape showed more polish as a passer, in addition to his ability to improvise.

 

[Killdozer]

Great question -- because HS stats don't account for variation -- in quality of competition, in quality of teammates, etc. Two kids having comparable tools, but playing against different competition or with teammates who aren't on par, doesn't paint an accurate comparison. Example -- someone playing in against teams chock full of other D1 caliber prospects in Florida / Texas / California / Ohio is a lot different than a QB playing in CNY. Another example -- a kid playing with a D1 P5 WR or TE prospect might have much different stats than another QB not playing alongside that type of talent. Someone playing with such a teammate might have their stats inflated at the HS level, but not be as "good" of a D1 prospect. Which is why HS stats can be misleading.

Someone could throw for 100 yards against top notch competition, or 300 yards against lesser competition -- who performed better? Comparing stats alone doesn't tell the full story vis a vis potential / effectiveness / readiness. A kid with lesser stats could be equally as strong of a prospect, based upon such circumstantial variation. And for the record -- competition level isn't the end all / be all either. A kid could be immensely talented, but just so happen to play somewhere that isn't a hotbed of football talent. That doesn't detract from their potential, it just emphasizes that stats alone don't paint the full picture at the HS level.

I'm not putting down Lamson -- love his potential. I'm just suggesting that HS stats alone don't provide much insight.

Thanks for the detailed response. I appreciate hearing points of view as I am not that connected with the HS level of competition.

 

[sutomcat]

Tomcat, the one thing I'll caution is that comparing stats from the HS level doesn't amount to much.

I agree with some of the rest of your analysis. I think Leonard had the right tools, which is why our staff [and Cutcliffe] identified and prioritized him early.

Lamson has the same attributes -- tools, athleticism, feel, vision -- and we pivoted nicely after missing out on Leonard. I'm not disappointed by how things turned out -- would have loved Leonard, but we got someone equally as strong of a prospect.

I liked Leonard too. That kid is a winner. I would have been happy to have him on our roster. I think he will find a way to get on the field and contribute. Not sure if it will be as a QB or not but I want kids like him on my team.

I am not saying Leonard is not a good player. I am taking umbrage with these web sites taking a player who had no P5 offers a couple of months ago, has done very little on the football field to prove he is a P5 level QB and bump his rating radically once he got a couple decent offers.

Look at the film of Leonard. He completed so few passes there is little to evaluate. I think statistics matter in high school. I think too many people ignore them. They have meaning. This has been proven by predictive models. I think it is reasonable to ask why if Riley is a legitimate P5 level QB, he struggled to average 100 yards passing a game for a team that went 6-5. Why did he run for almost as many yards as he passed?

I think we probably need legit dual threat QBs for this offense to work well, against ACC defense, given the talent we have to work with at OL, WR and the rest of the offense. I am glad both of these guys are capable of running and throwing, and making something out of broken plays. But if I am evaluating 2 QBs and have to choose one to take, I will take the one who has shown me he can make a variety of reads and passes, can make the progression to a second receiver, can consistently make a good throw under pressure.

You can see that with one of these QBs on film. You cannot with the other. I understand the people doing these rankings are not professionals and don’t know much about football. I understand they have to consider the offers players have and factor that into the numbers they assign. I just wish the vast difference in what you can see of the capabilities of these players on film was taken into account more when their ratings were assigned. It will be interesting to see how both develop over time.

 

[money3189]

Great question -- because HS stats don't account for variation -- in quality of competition, in quality of teammates, etc. Two kids having comparable tools, but playing against different competition or with teammates who aren't on par, doesn't paint an accurate comparison. Example -- someone playing in against teams chock full of other D1 caliber prospects in Florida / Texas / California / Ohio is a lot different than a QB playing in CNY. Another example -- a kid playing with a D1 P5 WR or TE prospect might have much different stats than another QB not playing alongside that type of talent. Someone playing with such a teammate might have their stats inflated at the HS level, but not be as "good" of a D1 prospect. Which is why HS stats can be misleading.

Someone could throw for 100 yards against top notch competition, or 300 yards against lesser competition -- who performed better? Comparing stats alone doesn't tell the full story vis a vis potential / effectiveness / readiness. A kid with lesser stats could be equally as strong of a prospect, based upon such circumstantial variation. And for the record -- competition level isn't the end all / be all either. A kid could be immensely talented, but just so happen to play somewhere that isn't a hotbed of football talent. That doesn't detract from their potential, it just emphasizes that stats alone don't paint the full picture at the HS level.

I'm not putting down Lamson -- love his potential. I'm just suggesting that HS stats alone don't provide much insight.

Lamson is our guy and I’m happy to be in position to get him but I agree, stats don’t paint the whole picture. Some HS coaches put a heavy emphasis on running the ball too. Especially if that’s the strength of the team. A good QB can throw for less than 1500 yards, show good efficiency then excels when he gets to a college team that throws the ball a lot. I didn’t check but how many pass attempts did Riley have per game?

 

[kcsu]

I do think we are ending up with a solid prospect. I like both of these kids but feel as if we ended up on top.