Nice work. Very sobering.
Class of 2021 QB Riley Leonard (AL) Portal from Duke
- Thread starter CuseLegacy
- Start date
SUFaninNJ
Living Legend
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2012
- Messages
- 14,412
- Like
- 36,149
Only if his QB coach also had multiple other QBs who were drafted in the 1st round.
cuse10
All American
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2016
- Messages
- 6,121
- Like
- 6,688
Jones hasn't flamed out, but he was an overreach at 6.
The guru thing is going too far the same way Babers and Jimmy G are.
Whitey23
Twitter Wizard
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 12,901
- Like
- 15,826
Not shabby.
Eight quarterbacks whom Cutcliffe coached in college have gone on to play in the NFL: Heath Shuler, Peyton Manning, Tee Martin, Eli Manning, Erik Ainge, Thaddeus Lewis, Sean Renfree, and Daniel Jones.
Cutcliffe also coached former Colorado Rockies first baseman Todd Helton while Helton played quarterback at Tennessee. Eli Manning's former backup, Seth Smith, is a retired professional baseball player.
Eight quarterbacks whom Cutcliffe coached in college have gone on to play in the NFL: Heath Shuler, Peyton Manning, Tee Martin, Eli Manning, Erik Ainge, Thaddeus Lewis, Sean Renfree, and Daniel Jones.
Cutcliffe also coached former Colorado Rockies first baseman Todd Helton while Helton played quarterback at Tennessee. Eli Manning's former backup, Seth Smith, is a retired professional baseball player.
Don’t mean to get involved here but I’ve also lived there. And those -60 degree windchill days were a heck of a lot colder than I experienced growing up and living in CNY. Spent time at SUNY Oswego which was cold with the wind coming off the lake. But Minneapolis and Duluth were by far colder on their lows than NY.
I’ll stay away from the rest of this debate. Just too many days not being able to breath through my nose without the vessels freezing to let the weather thing go. Sorry everyone, back to your regularly scheduled debates.
RF2044
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 30,484
- Like
- 97,842
No worries, ArchDuke. Considering -- per some quick internet research to validate -- that the coldest ever recorded day in history in Minnesota was -67 with wind chill in 1936, and that it has only been recorded to get below -60 wind chill an extremely small number of times in history, I sincerely doubt there were many -60 wind chill days for you to experience. At minimum, I suspect hyperbole -- the same way that everyone talks up weather phenomenon.
No doubt, it can get cold here. But that is intermittent, and not a consistent thing every winter, and there is a LOT less snow. I've lived here for 16 years, and the coldest winter was in 2014 [which was a universal thing in the US that year]. The coldest temperature that winter was -20, with a -36 wind chill--it was brutal, there is no positive spin to put on that--but it sure wasn't -60 wind chill.
Your example is like pointing to the rare occasions where Syracuse gets bombarded with >20 inches of snow in a 24 hour span, and pretending that is the norm because it happens extremely occasionally. I LOVE Syracuse, I'm not trying to defend Minnesota -- but when the poster above proclaims that it snows here in October, sorry that's just not true [even though I'm sure it has happened, just like it's happened in CNY]. I take a similar grain of salt when you describe all of those -60 wind chill days -- could it have happened? Possibly, but I'm guessing it is hyperbole.
Last edited:
With a grain of salt, as you should. I didn’t measure the temp when I was there the first 6 years of the 2000’s. But I remember a week they were calling for -60 windchill. I also recall several days through that blast where it felt like what I’d imagine -60 to feel like, especially as a college kid with little money to spend on nice warm clothes. I know there seemed to be about 2 weeks each January or February where windchill hit a ridiculous number. Don’t know exact numbers but I can definitely attest to a difference in overall cold vs cny during those 6 years.
The snow is different. We had very little while I lived there. Maybe an average of 25 to 30 inches (without searching historic data). Completely different than NY.
But this is directly from the state dnr site.
On the same date that the Minnesota state record minimum temperature record was set on February 2, 1996 (-60 near Tower) Governor Arne Carlson cancelled schools for cold a second time. In the Twin Cities at 6am February 2, 1996 the air temperature was -30 degrees F with a wind chill temperature of -48 degrees F (based on the 2001 formula).
Governor Carlson cancelled schools for a third time on January 16, 1997. Wind Chill Temperatures were -32 degrees F in the Twin Cities.
The first wind chill warning that was issued for the Twin Cities under the new wind chill temperature formula established in 2001 was the arctic outbreak of January 29-30, 2004. The coldest windchill observed in the Twin Cities during that period was -43 degrees F at 8am on January 30, 2004.
In the wake of a winter storm on February 17, 2006, strong high pressure moved in behind it and created strong winds and dangerous windchills. The coldest windchill seen at the Twin Cities International Airport was -34 degrees F . The coldest windchill found statewide was -54 degrees F at Thief River Falls.
Governor Mark Dayton cancelled K-12 public schools statewide on Monday January 6th, 2014 due to extreme windchills that were forecasted well in advance. The coldest wind chill temperature in Minnesota on January 6th was -63 degrees at Grand Marais Airport at 9am with a -31 degree F air temperature and a 21mph wind. The coldest wind chill temperature in the Twin Cities was -48 degrees at 5am with an air temperature of -22 degrees F and a 15mph wind. Many schools also cancelled classes January 7th as well. The wind chill at 4am January 7th was -28 at the Twin Cities International Airport with an air temperature of -14 and a wind of 6mph. Statewide the coldest wind chill was -50 reported at Duluth at 4am with an air temperature of -23 and a west wind of 16mph.
Schools were cancelled at many locations again on Thursday, January 23. The coldest wind chill in the Twin Cities on January 23 was at 2am with a windchill of -37 degrees with an air temperature of -14 and a NW wind of 15mph. The coldest statewide wind chill was -51 at Park Rapids at 6am with an air temperature of -33 and as wind of 6mph.
Schools were cancelled for a fourth day across the Twin Cities on January 27 as well. Classes were also cancelled for the day for the University of Minnesota. The coldest wind chill in the Twin Cities was -39 at 4am (-13F air temp and wind NW 20mph) The coldest wind chill statewide was -53 degrees at the Grand Marais Airport at 8am (-26F air temp, wind NE 16mph.)
Schools were cancelled once more across the Twin Cities on Tuesday January 28th. University of Minnesota classes were cancelled in the morning. The coldest wind chill in the Twin Cities was -29 at 9am with an air temperature of -12 and a wind speed of 8mph. The coldest wind chill in the state was -52 degrees at Fosston at 7am with air temperature of -33 degrees and a wind speed of 7mph from the south.
Recap of January 2014 month of cold wind chills.
(brackets are air temperature in F and wind speed)
Date Lowest Wind Chill Lowest Wind Chill
Twin Cities Statewide and location
----------------------------------------------------------
Jan 6 -48 (-22F/15mph) -63 (-31F/21mph) Grand Marais Airport
Jan 7 -28 (-14F/6mph) -50 (-23F/16mph) Duluth
Jan 23 -37 (-14F/15mph) -51 (-33F/6mph) Park Rapids
Jan 27 -39 (-13F/20mph) -53 (-26F/16mph) Grand Marais Airport
Jan 28 -29 (-12F/8mph) -52 (-33F/7mph) Fosston
As far as objective facts. I’ll include the coldest days for Minneapolis and Syracuse.
Again, not trying to call you or anyone out here, not my personality. But for the time I lived there, it was far colder and more often, than CNY.
Attachments
bnoro
Lurker
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 10,980
- Like
- 31,097
Amie leaving killed us.
That being said, our biggest issue is the entire country knows this staff knows what good QBs look like. So bigger schools than us wait to see who we offer, and then move in and take them, because we aren't able to convince kids to come up to SU. Especially now, during a pandemic...
RF2044
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 30,484
- Like
- 97,842
I don't think that anyone disputes that it CAN get colder here than in Syracuse, just like nobody disputes that CNY gets exponentially more snow most years.
But having to reference data from 1996, and 2004, etc. kind of proves my point -- sure, it can happen, but it tends to happen in very remote parts of the state that aren't close to Minneapolis, and it doesn't happen frequently. 1996 was 24 years ago. 2004 was 16 years ago. And something happening in International Falls, the coldest part of the state 300 miles away, doesn't apply any more than Tug Hill's snowfall does to New York City.
Along those same lines, from the data you posted -- do a quick check to see how far away Grand Marais, Duluth, Fosston, and Park Rapids are from the Twin Cities. Discussing the weather in Grand Marais and trying to apply it to where the University of Minnesota is located near Minneapolis would be like trying to lump in the lake effect snow from Cleveland into the Syracuse annual accumulation.
As you suggest, not worth arguing about. It can get frigid here -- VERY. But it doesn't happen as often as many think, and it certainly doesn't occur in the Twin Cities every winter, even if it happens in International Falls / Grand Marais. I just get annoyed by hyperbole thrown out as fact, that it snows here every October, that it is -60 wind chill here routinely.
Last edited:
TexanMark
Tailgate Guru
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 24,169
- Like
- 43,952
I was in Chicago for -81 wind chill. If sucked. Apparently they recalibrated wind chill computations and it would be more like -55 today.
What was Chicago’s lowest wind chill?
Dear Tom, Your recent graphic on Chicago’s Frigid Facts listed the city’s lowest wind chill of 82 degrees below zero set on Christmas Eve 1983. Since then the wind chill formula has been revi…
wgntv.com
Cusefan78
Negative Nancy
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2011
- Messages
- 1,778
- Like
- 3,379
are you kidding me with this. When was the last time it was -60 in Syracuse. I travel to Minnesota 15 times a year. Have stayed all Over the state. It’s colder there and the temps are more extreme then they are in Syracuse. Yes your summers are less humid. No need to bring In ifalls that’s a different planet. And yes I have worked in ifalls filming while it was -70 with wind chill. This pertains to recruiting because we play indoors and gophers play outdoors. If I said the sky was blue you would tell me I’m full of it. (Image below is temps without windchill)
Attachments
RF2044
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 30,484
- Like
- 97,842
No, I'd point out that International Falls is 300 @#% miles away from where the University of Minnesota is located, and wonder why someone who travels to Minnesota 15 times a year doesn't recognize that weather in a location literally on the completely opposite part of the state has zero bearing on what happens in the Twin Cities. I'm sorry that you had to work outside when it was -70 in international falls -- I really am. But I doubt the validity of that claim, seeing how the coldest wind chill recorded in state history was -67 in 1936, as pointed out above. So you're either wrong or exaggerating.
When was the last time it was -60 in Minneapolis?
Funny that it doesn't impact recruiting, with the Gophers playing outdoors. Want to know why? Because it doesn't often get that cold here during football season. Sometimes it snows, just like it does in Syracuse, but there are also plenty of Novembers that are snow free through the end of the month, when the football season ends -- so it doesn't have much bearing on football when it occasionally gets cold in Jan / Feb [like it would if the Vikings played outside at the end of an NFL football season]. In October, when you claimed above that it starts snowing, it is often in the 50s and 40s -- and usually quite a bit warmer than that through the beginning part of the month.
By the way, I've attended games at the U of M stadium, including one where there was bad snow and cold. It sucked, from a fan perspective. But it doesn't happen very often, which is why ringing alarm bells about it isn't an effective negative recruiting tactic.
I shouldn't let this bother me, but I always find it stupid when other schools and fan bases negative recruit against SU with BS info about the weather. I honestly am not trying to make this personal like you apparently are -- the sweeping generalizations about the weather are just a pet peeve when it comes to recruiting.
Here is the average monthly temperature data here in Minneapolis -- which is where the University of Minnesota is located, just so everyone is clear on why I am focused there and not worried about Grand Marais, International Falls, etc.:
Again, I'm not saying that it NEVER gets cold, but all of this talk of -60s, snow in October, etc. are greatly exaggerated. And yes -- I recognize that averages don't necessarily reflect the extremes -- but nor do outliers define "normal." Those extreme temperatures -- when they do infrequently occur -- are built into those averages.
Last edited:
It shows the importance of timing. Like if they slow played it to July/August would enough schools have filled up at QB by that point that Leonard wouldn’t have had the options that he did today?
This experience (as well as the other losses) makes the Markiewicz signing even more intriguing. Even as late as that commitment was how come no other P5 team came to the table after we did? The kid put up big stats at a high level division in TX. Not one P5 team but us could find an extra scholarship at that point to take a flyer on him? In that instance, did timing save us? What am I missing?
Last edited:
TM-
Yeah, I thought I saw something about that, a new formula for figuring windchill. Not sure the differences.
RF-
I also agree with the hyperbole statement, but I’d go back to what you said about taking it all with a grain of salt as well as knowing who is making the statements. Fact is, we all do it to some extent. There’s some aspect of that in a couple of your posts if you go back a page or maybe two. That’s why I commented to some extent. The poster said mn weather was worse than ny. On many winter days it can be. So it wasn’t objectively false or literally 0% true.
I’ll just say, having also lived there, with family and friends there, traveling back from time to time to both states, IMO, the winters are colder and thus worse on average, than CNY. Feel free to respond back, I probably won’t
Yeah, I thought I saw something about that, a new formula for figuring windchill. Not sure the differences.
RF-
I also agree with the hyperbole statement, but I’d go back to what you said about taking it all with a grain of salt as well as knowing who is making the statements. Fact is, we all do it to some extent. There’s some aspect of that in a couple of your posts if you go back a page or maybe two. That’s why I commented to some extent. The poster said mn weather was worse than ny. On many winter days it can be. So it wasn’t objectively false or literally 0% true.
I’ll just say, having also lived there, with family and friends there, traveling back from time to time to both states, IMO, the winters are colder and thus worse on average, than CNY. Feel free to respond back, I probably won’t
javadoc
All American
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 5,680
- Like
- 7,894
It was good while it lasted!
RF2044
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 30,484
- Like
- 97,842
Yup, colder on average here, lots more snow in CNY -- as I have agreed from the beginning. What "worse" means to different people is subjective. Full transparency, I have come to loathe winters more and more overall [and I've only lived in winter climates my whole life, except for a brief stint in Phoenix], but I appreciate having a lot less snow compared to CNY [10 year average here of 54 inches, only 48 last winter, compared to ~120 in Syracuse] -- cold is easier to deal with for me personally than snow.
But this isn't the arctic beginning in October, as some apparently belive. That's all I'm pointing out. Appreciate the civility / data, instead of anecdotal stuff.
kcsu
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 20,117
- Like
- 42,436
Lets face facts. Cutt has a legitimate claim to being an excellent developer of QBs.
Dino doesn't hold a candle to him relative to QB development.
IthacaBarrel
Shaky Potatoes
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 12,890
- Like
- 22,686
Again, there is a logical progression to be followed here and whether you want to acknowledge this than so be it. The Manning QB camp and the one that David Morris runs which is named qbcountry are wildly popular both coached in college by Cutcliffe. He is well respected for coaching the qb position as are many of his former athletes that played the position.
Go look at the QBcountry website that Morris runs. Daniel Jones and Eli are all over it as well. It's all out there plain as day.
alphaorange
Starter
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 1,712
- Like
- 2,250
I never said he flamed out. Nor did I say he was likely to. I simply said it was early to count him as a success story in the nfl.
City of Cuse
Starter
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2011
- Messages
- 1,265
- Like
- 3,148
Not going to get into a weather debate because it seems like a wash between CNY and Minnesota.
I actually think the comparison between the two schools is interesting. So let's review some facts for Minnesota football over the last decade:
4 head coaches
3 losing seasons (2 other seasons under 500 due to bowl loss)
7 bowl games (4-3) we know one of those losses!
Ranked in top 25 2 years. Before last year, 2014 was the only year this decade they have been ranked (22).
Besides 2014 and last season, they were consistently bottom 3 in their division.
Average recruiting ranking was 58ish until the past few years where it is high 30s. After their big year last year, it is currently at the 8 spot.
Please don't take this as an assault on our staff, I love Dino, but Fleck took a pretty mediocre program and was able to sell it to high level recruits. Cuse needs to do the same.
Last edited:
True but we are losing kids to Duke not the Clemson's of the world.
OrangeMojo
All Conference
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 2,430
- Like
- 2,910
Well - every QB on that list not named Manning went on to do nothing (Jones still a TBD) in the NFL - so either he's good at developing Mannings into NFL QBs or Archie develops great QBs and Cutt was lucky enough to be at their schools when they were in college.
orangefog
Certified Message Board Genius
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 17,668
- Like
- 57,498
This is a debate you can't win until we at least get a few QB's in to the NFL.
SuFTW
All Conference
- Joined
- May 13, 2020
- Messages
- 2,433
- Like
- 4,195
Riley’s coach for the past 7 years is a Cutcliffe protege.
