Quade Green to Washington

[SoBeCuse]

I hope he does come. Simply from a competition standpoint. Currently, Frank/Jalen and Tyus are going against Boeheim and HW in practice. Probably easy to look good and drive on those guys. Game time it’s another story!!

I would think Girard/Goodine are nothing to be afraid of and that’s not a jab at those two.

 

[RF2044]

I’m so glad Wes Johnson wasn’t scared off by Kris Joseph, James Southerland, and Mookie Jones. One of whom became a player as a soph, another as a 4th year Junior, and one who never did.

That's up to Green, isn't it?

Let's see where he elects to visit -- will be telling.

 

[RF2044]

Hughes is similar to Andrew White- a scorer, who will make tough shots, but will, at times, struggle on defense (although I think Hughes is better as a help defender than White was, and White was a more deadly "tough shot" maker... so far... the comparison is not perfect, obviously). The similarity is that we speculated playing White at the 2 as well... but the dribbling was a thing.

Some of the opinions expressed on this forum with respect to White being able to play the 2 were asinine. White was a fantastic shooter, but he couldn't dribble down his chin -- which was readily apparent to anyone who'd seen him play.

 

[OrangeDW]

Some of the opinions expressed on this forum with respect to White being able to play the 2 were asinine. White was a fantastic shooter, but he couldn't dribble down his chin -- which was readily apparent to anyone who'd seen him play.

Thing is...they actually started him at the two early in the year. Brutal. Maybe in the 80’s-90s, a guy like that could play 2, but not now.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Thing is...they actually started him at the two early in the year. Brutal. Maybe in the 80’s-90s, a guy like that could play 2, but not now.

We started Howard, White, Lydon, Roberson, and Coleman.

 

[OrangeDW]

We started Howard, White, Lydon, Roberson, and Coleman.

Wow. Worst ball handling lineup of all time. Why did we all think we’d be good that year?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Wow. Worst ball handling lineup of all time. Why did we all think we’d be good that year?

Our coach said it.

 

[RF2044]

Thing is...they actually started him at the two early in the year. Brutal. Maybe in the 80’s-90s, a guy like that could play 2, but not now.

That was literally the worst lineup of the Boeheim era. We had numerous players out there with non-complimentary skill sets. In addition to not being able to dribble, White had averaged something like .03 assist per game in his career -- so he wasn't going to help out handling or passing the ball. Playing Lydon at 3 in tandem with the handling-challenged White was a similar recipe for disaster. Lydon could shoot like a wing, but that was the only skill he had that suited that position. And those two situations were exacerbated by Howard not being ready to assume full time PG responsibilities at that stage of his career.

It might have worked if we had dominant lead guard like Sherman, Pearl, or Flynn who could handle the ball handling responsibilities entirely on their own, but that's not what we had.

And to make matters even more entertaining, there were posters [one in particular] who insisted that Battle would be the starting point guard, leading that awful lineup. That team would have been lucky to get the ball over half court, in retrospect.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

So when he transfers does Quade have to give the bagman's money back?

Bagman only pays the annual salary. That's why Quade is leaving. Didn't sign an extension this year.

 

[RF2044]

Wow. Worst ball handling lineup of all time. Why did we all think we’d be good that year?

I think because that team had depth [prior to Coleman, Chukwu, and Howard getting injured] and could really shoot, and the coaches didn't expect the defense to completely drop off of a cliff the way it did. With an average defense, that team could have been decent. They came within one win of making the NCAA -- overcoming the disastrous start before Boeheim adjusted the lineup. Once we did, they beat three top 10 teams.

If he'd started out of the gate using that lineup, we'd have gotten 2 or 3 more wins, IMO.

 

[cuse10]

False. Syracuse will have Carey, Hughes [who will likely shift to the 2 full time], and then four reserves.

That doesn't equate to "no depth." There is depth, including one player who is the coach's son. Unproven depth is different than "no depth."

Not directed at you specifically, cuse10, but I'm not sure what is so hard to grasp about this: Green is reportedly looking for an immediate path to a starting role, after what transpired at UK. He might look at our backcourt situation, and not want to "risk" being the third guard behind [for example] Carey and Hughes, and not starting for another season.

Or, he might look at our situation and believe that he has a clear path to start, shifting Carey to combo / 2, with Hughes staying as a small forward.

Or he might look at other teams' rosters and think that there's a better opportunity for him elsewhere.

Debating about roster X versus roster Y is pointless -- it all comes down to which option Green sees as most beneficial to his quest for PT.

The only thing that we are going to agree on is that Green is going where he fits best.

 

[RF2044]

The only thing that we are going to agree on is that Green is going where he fits best.

So, you disagree that a backcourt with five--and possibly six--returning guards lacks depth? ; )

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you or I think -- it only depends what Green thinks. And not just Green, that's how it works with every recruit. Every year I see fans pine for recruits to come here to fill some perceived hole in our roster, ignoring that it is up to the kid, who often doesn't view things in the same subjectively black-and-white terms that fans do. We aren't a selector school that can stack multiple highly rated players at the same position, despite being in the top 5 for all time wins. Never have been, probably never will be.

I'd like to see Green elect to come to SU. There'd be some nice "closure" to this story if he did. I actually heard that he may have put some feelers out to the SU coaching staff this past summer, before opting to return to Kentucky for his now abbreviated sophomore season. But if the coaches aren't receptive now [which is understandable, given that they were snubbed twice], then it won't happen.

Or if Green opts for what he perceives to be greener [pun intended] pastures somewhere else, then the readiness of Carey, Goodine, Girard, Boeheim, etc. doesn't matter a whit. People can rationalize the decision however they choose -- but it will ultimately be up to Green, as we agree.

 

[cuseinseattle]

And I disagree. SU has no depth at the guard position after Carey. Buddy can't play at this level yet. Who's to say Girard and Goodine are going to adapt any better? Syracuse has not had a true point guard since Tyler Ennis and now people think they're above accepting Green as a transfer? He would start immediately and get meaningful minutes at SU. If I'm on the staff, I'm reaching out to him. It would be malpractice to go into the season inexperienced at the guard spot.

You are comparing Buddy to Goodine. Goodine is a hyper athletic 6 foot 4 kid that can play both guard spots and catch alley oop windmill dunks on the last video I saw. He is going to be a really good player here. Buddy is a great kid who can shoot but needs to improve in a lot of areas yet is an elite shooter and doesn't have to take a scholly.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I want Hop to be successful as much as the next person, but when you say “stop being a fan” what are you suppose to take it as?

I get that. I wasn't defending the post but just pointing out why I think people were liking it. I want Hop to be successful and think he is amazing but I go to all of his games wearing a syracuse sweatshirt.

 

[cuseinseattle]

So, you disagree that a backcourt with five--and possibly six--returning guards lacks depth? ; )

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you or I think -- it only depends what Green thinks. And not just Green, that's how it works with every recruit. Every year I see fans pine for recruits to come here to fill some perceived hole in our roster, ignoring that it is up to the kid, who often doesn't view things in the same subjectively black-and-white terms that fans do. We aren't a selector school that can stack multiple highly rated players at the same position, despite being in the top 5 for all time wins. Never have been, probably never will be.

I'd like to see Green elect to come to SU. There'd be some nice "closure" to this story if he did. I actually heard that he may have put some feelers out to the SU coaching staff this past summer, before opting to return to Kentucky for his now abbreviated sophomore season. But if the coaches aren't receptive now [which is understandable, given that they were snubbed twice], then it won't happen.

Or if Green opts for what he perceives to be greener [pun intended] pastures somewhere else, then the readiness of Carey, Goodine, Girard, Boeheim, etc. doesn't matter a whit. People can rationalize the decision however they choose -- but it will ultimately be up to Green, as we agree.

The pastures are definitely greener in Seattle than Syracuse this time of year. We don't have the same harsh winters. No snow and grass as far as the eye can see.

 

[chugg21]

False. Syracuse will have Carey, Hughes [who will likely shift to the 2 full time], and then four reserves.

That doesn't equate to "no depth." There is depth, including one player who is the coach's son. Unproven depth is different than "no depth."

Not directed at you specifically, cuse10, but I'm not sure what is so hard to grasp about this: Green is reportedly looking for an immediate path to a starting role, after what transpired at UK. He might look at our backcourt situation, and not want to "risk" being the third guard behind [for example] Carey and Hughes, and not starting for another season.

Or, he might look at our situation and believe that he has a clear path to start, shifting Carey to combo / 2, with Hughes staying as a small forward.

Or he might look at other teams' rosters and think that there's a better opportunity for him elsewhere.

Debating about roster X versus roster Y is pointless -- it all comes down to which option Green sees as most beneficial to his quest for PT.

Think I am starting to become terrified of a Carey/Hughes starting backcourt. Really starting to get frustrated that the majority of the time we choose to recruit to the zone which rules out the guys that actually dominate in college basketball, the 6 foot floor general types. Those guys keep the floor at a much higher level then what we usually end up with even if the ceiling drops down a notch or 2. There is a growing list of all-american and all-conference PGs that by all appearance we didn't go after or at least didn't go after hard because we elected instead to go for a combo guard in hopes that they could figure out how to play the point. Playing PG is more of a mindset and natural ability that isn't really something easy to figure out while playing at this level. End of rant.

 

[OrangeDW]

Say the opposite of whatever they say, and louder than them.

“Buddy sucks!”

“BUDDY IS SO GREAT!!!”

 

[RF2044]

Think I am starting to become terrified of a Carey/Hughes starting backcourt. Really starting to get frustrated that the majority of the time we choose to recruit to the zone which rules out the guys that actually dominate in college basketball, the 6 foot floor general types. Those guys keep the floor at a much higher level then what we usually end up with even if the ceiling drops down a notch or 2. There is a growing list of all-american and all-conference PGs that by all appearance we didn't go after or at least didn't go after hard because we elected instead to go for a combo guard in hopes that they could figure out how to play the point. Playing PG is more of a mindset and natural ability that isn't really something that isn't really that easy to be figured out while playing at this level. End of rant.

Personally, I think Carey is going to be just fine -- and that he'll be a stud next year.

But I agree with the sentiment. If we're going to recruit athletic profiles for zone, the one position where we shouldn't be locked into an archetype is point guard. College basketball is so guard driven, that we shouldn't sacrifice skill for size / length, at least not at PG.

 

[Brooky03]

Think I am starting to become terrified of a Carey/Hughes starting backcourt. Really starting to get frustrated that the majority of the time we choose to recruit to the zone which rules out the guys that actually dominate in college basketball, the 6 foot floor general types. Those guys keep the floor at a much higher level then what we usually end up with even if the ceiling drops down a notch or 2. There is a growing list of all-american and all-conference PGs that by all appearance we didn't go after or at least didn't go after hard because we elected instead to go for a combo guard in hopes that they could figure out how to play the point. Playing PG is more of a mindset and natural ability that isn't really something easy to figure out while playing at this level. End of rant.

Hughes at SG is a little scary, given the skill set I've seen so far. He's a tweener who doesn't really fit SG or SF.

I like Carey a lot, though. If Carey is on the court with Goodine or Girard, I think we'll see an entirely different offense than we've grown accustomed to the last 4 years or so.

 

[chugg21]

Personally, I think Carey is going to be just fine -- and that he'll be a stud next year.

But I agree with the sentiment. If we're going to recruit athletic profiles for zone, the one position where we shouldn't be locked into an archetype is point guard. College basketball is so guard driven, that we shouldn't sacrifice skill for size / length, at least not at PG.

That's essentially the only reason that I would still be really happy if Quade was to come here. He seemed like exactly what we have been missing since Ennis. His stats at UK though kind of suggest that he wasn't that kind of player as he was turning it over at a pretty high rate but whatever I just want an actual point guard on the floor. Next year could be brutal if all we have is 2 combo guards and 2 spot up shooters in the backcourt. I'm not sure that Carey is going to suddenly turn into the kind of guy that is controlling the tempo and getting other guys going.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Personally, I think Carey is going to be just fine -- and that he'll be a stud next year.

But I agree with the sentiment. If we're going to recruit athletic profiles for zone, the one position where we shouldn't be locked into an archetype is point guard. College basketball is so guard driven, that we shouldn't sacrifice skill for size / length, at least not at PG.

Do you think Carey’s future role will be as a starting PG? Is he more suited as an instant offense guy off the bench? Seems that the staff doesn’t trust him much even with Frank really struggling out there. Not sure if he will ever be a good assist guy. Too early to tell but I’m curious and even a bit concerned about what his proper role/fit would and should be here.

 

[cuse10]

Think I am starting to become terrified of a Carey/Hughes starting backcourt. Really starting to get frustrated that the majority of the time we choose to recruit to the zone which rules out the guys that actually dominate in college basketball, the 6 foot floor general types. Those guys keep the floor at a much higher level then what we usually end up with even if the ceiling drops down a notch or 2. There is a growing list of all-american and all-conference PGs that by all appearance we didn't go after or at least didn't go after hard because we elected instead to go for a combo guard in hopes that they could figure out how to play the point. Playing PG is more of a mindset and natural ability that isn't really something easy to figure out while playing at this level. End of rant.

Part of the problem this season is that there's a lack of skill guys due in part because of recruitment specifically for the zone.

 

[RF2044]

Do you think Carey’s future role will be as a starting PG? Is he more suited as an instant offense guy off the bench? Seems that the staff doesn’t trust him much even with Frank really struggling out there. Not sure if he will ever be a good assist guy. Too early to tell but I’m curious and even a bit concerned about what his proper role/fit would and should be here.

Future role -- depends. Do we land Quade Green [unlikely] or not? Is Goodine too good to not start, or will he need a year?

Personally, I think that Carey is going to be terrific. Love his game. Missing weeks of practice early with that ankle injury was a setback. Definitely a scoring point, but his handle is sick, and something this team has lacked for a LONG time. As he continues to figure things out, I'd expect fan sentiment / perception about him to change quite a bit.

 

[chugg21]

Part of the problem this season is that there's a lack of skill guys due in part because of recruitment specifically for the zone.

It's causing us a lot of problems at both the 1 and 5. Taking athletic attributes over actual basketball skill. It's cool when there's a 7'2 guy protecting the rim, but I'll take a pudgy 6'9 guy that can give us 12 and 8 all day instead if he's a + on O and just avg on D as opposed to getting absolutely nothing on O and a bit above avg on D.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Future role -- depends. Do we land Quade Green [unlikely] or not? Is Goodine too good to not start, or will he need a year?

Personally, I think that Carey is going to be terrific. Love his game. Missing weeks of practice early with that ankle injury was a setback. Definitely a scoring point, but his handle is sick, and something this team has lacked for a LONG time. As he continues to figure things out, I'd expect fan sentiment / perception about him to change quite a bit.

I like him too. Just not sure of the best role for him. Also, not blown away by his handle. It’s good and better than Frank’s for sure but, well, we know... Tonight will be a good test especially if Graves is on him.