Question for Slow Board Day

[OrangeMojo]

Oh my. You do recall the Gino Torretta teams that P battled don't you?

And you do recall that the 2001 Miami team was the greatest college football team of all time, right?

The Hurricanes led Nebraska 34-0 at halftime of the NC game for gosh sakes.

Syracuse University never had dominant talent - it had a number of good players and a few great ones - maybe three or four over the 13 years Pasqualoni was at the helm - Freeney, Bulluck, McNabb, Harrison. The fan base overestimated the talent level of those teams.

The 1987 team was a wonderful team, but it faced a relatively weak regular season schedule that included Colgate, Navy, Rutgers, a mediocre Missouri team, an okay Va Tech team, and a Penn State team that was not particularly competitive. It never faced the kind of athletic dynamo that was Miami in the 1990s.

Yes I do - and I remember P's teams losing every one of them except when Miami was hobbled by probation.

You really think that if you repeat that garbage line about SU's talent lacking in the 90s enough then someone will actually believe it. Truth is that 75% of the games that SU lost in that decade SU had comparable or better talent than their opponent.

An again - in 97 and 98 SU's schedule was full of weak opponents and no dynamos as you call them and P still managed to lose 3 and 4 games in those seasons. In 98 he had enough talent to beat* eventual national champ Tennessee and blow out Michigan on the road - drop 70 pts on Temple and then go and lay an egg against a middle of the pack NC State team. He also managed to lose to an okay West Virginia team despite having better talent.

Your view that because Miami had great teams during most of his tenure excuses all of Ps shortcomings doesn't hold up - a great/HOF coach should have found a way to upset them at least once during their tenure (his two wins weren't upsets).

 

[KaiserUEO]

heres the College HOF criteria.

1. While each nominee's football achievements are of prime consideration, his post-football record as a citizen is also weighed. He must have proven himself worthy as a citizen, carrying the ideals of football forward into his relations with his community and his fellow man with love of his country.
2. A coach becomes eligible three years after retirement or immediately following retirement provided he is at least 70 years of age. Active coaches become eligible at 75 years of age.
3. The nominee must have held a head coaching position at the collegiate level for at least ten years.
4. The nominee must hold at least a .600 career record over the course of 100 games or more.

hes in.

 

[OrangePA]

My intellect is OK ... Its my memory that's the problem. After responding once, it dawned on me that it was P's greatest fan, who had come up with a new and clever way to rewrite history.

I don't think you are trying to provoke discussion. I don't think this is any slower day than most. I think it's chapter 299 in Orange PA's on-going and never -ending campaign to rehabilitate the P legend at SU.

I'll stick with my impression that P wasn't very smart. Now this is just my impression. I haven't seen his SAT scores or his college grades from Central Ct State or anything like that. I haven't seen the results of any P IQ tests. I only have a lifetime of listening to smart and not-so-smart people talk on which to base my opinion.

The post was actually made yesterday - nobody was posting anything.

Also Pasqualoni graduated from Penn State.

I suspect that few, if any, even on this board, feel that P requires any form of "rehabilitation."

Very odd use of words. Maybe you don't recall its meaning???

 

[Townie72]

Coach P went to Penn State.

I do remember that also ... now that you mention it. Yet another reason to dislike the guy for those who were around when PSU was an actual rival.

 

[OrangePA]

Yes I do - and I remember P's teams losing every one of them except when Miami was hobbled by probation.

You really think that if you repeat that garbage line about SU's talent lacking in the 90s enough then someone will actually believe it. Truth is that 75% of the games that SU lost in that decade SU had comparable or better talent than their opponent.

An again - in 97 and 98 SU's schedule was full of weak opponents and no dynamos as you call them and P still managed to lose 3 and 4 games in those seasons. In 98 he had enough talent to beat* eventual national champ Tennessee and blow out Michigan on the road - drop 70 pts on Temple and then go and lay an egg against a middle of the pack NC State team. He also managed to lose to an okay West Virginia team despite having better talent.

Your view that because Miami had great teams during most of his tenure excuses all of Ps shortcomings doesn't hold up - a great/HOF coach should have found a way to upset them at least once during their tenure (his two wins weren't upsets).

Interesting.

Lets tap your impeccable memory.

Was Syracuse University favored to beat Michigan in 1997?

Was Syracuse University favored to beat Wisconsin in 1998?

Was Syracuse University favored to beat Clemson in 1996?

Was Syracuse University favored to beat Va Tech in 2001 or Auburn in 2001?

 

[Townie72]

The post was actually made yesterday - nobody was posting anything.

Also Pasqualoni graduated from Penn State.

I suspect that few, if any, even on this board, feel that P requires any form of "rehabilitation."

Very odd use of words. Maybe you don't recall its meaning???

So since no one was posting anything, you decided it was a great opportunity to continue your campaign to rehabilitate P's image or to imprint an image on the younger posters?

Now P himself might not require any rehabilitation, but certainly his image at SU isn't all that great. He was, after all, fired. Sent packing. Sacked. Let go. (This is the point where you start talking about the injustice of it and how unwise it was and what his average number of wins were, etc, etc.)

Before your next foray, why don't you preface it with a little qualifier like, "This is part of my longstanding campaign of complaining about P's dismissal and seeking to argue about it again and again and again."

 

[Townie72]

Interesting.

Lets tap your impeccable memory.

Was Syracuse University favored to beat Michigan in 1997?

Was Syracuse University favored to beat Wisconsin in 1998?

Was Syracuse University favored to beat Clemson in 1996?

Was Syracuse University favored to beat Va Tech in 2001 or Auburn in 2001?

Was SU favored over 0-9 Rutgers in 1999?

Was SU a 50-pt underdog against VT earlier that year?

 

[KaiserUEO]

Was SU favored over 0-9 Rutgers in 1999?

Was SU a 50-pt underdog against VT earlier that year?

lets stay on topic.

HALL.

OF.

FAME.

need i remind you, this is good for Syracuse.

 

[Chip]

heres the College HOF criteria.

1. While each nominee's football achievements are of prime consideration, his post-football record as a citizen is also weighed. He must have proven himself worthy as a citizen, carrying the ideals of football forward into his relations with his community and his fellow man with love of his country.
2. A coach becomes eligible three years after retirement or immediately following retirement provided he is at least 70 years of age. Active coaches become eligible at 75 years of age.
3. The nominee must have held a head coaching position at the collegiate level for at least ten years.
4. The nominee must hold at least a .600 career record over the course of 100 games or more.

hes in.

If that's the criteria, and if the UConn job doesn't drag him below on #4 (I don't think it will), I don't see how he could be left out.

The bigger question is, will he wear a Syracuse hat for the induction ceremony?

 

[OrangeCrush22]

I could see him being a hall of famer. No one will bat an eyelash if he doesn't get in, though. MacPherson had the undefeated season to bolster his resume. Pasqualoni doesn't have anything like that.

 

[All4SU]

I could see him being a hall of famer. No one will bat an eyelash if he doesn't get in, though. MacPherson had the undefeated season to bolster his resume. Pasqualoni doesn't have anything like that.

What he has is sustained success. Yes, I know, SU had lots of disappointments during his tenure. But there were lots of successes too. CFB recognizes those who sustain success. Coach P is one of those.

 

[Townie72]

lets stay on topic.

HALL.

OF.

FAME.

need i remind you, this is good for Syracuse.

Given the low bar for admission that you identified, "He's in", as you say.

But I gotta wonder just how good this is for SU. Better than a sharp stick in the eye, but not much.

Ten+ years ago, a guy we fired and shockingly low admissions criteria.

 

[OrangeMojo]

Interesting.

Lets tap your impeccable memory.

Was Syracuse University favored to beat Michigan Wisconsin in 1997? think you have this and Wisconsin reversed. The Wisconsin game was the first of the season and SU was coming off back to back bowl wins with third year and reigning BE Offensive Player of the Year Donovan McNabb at QB. Wisconsin in the mid-90s wasn't yet the Barry Alvarez teams of the late 90s/2000s - so guessing SU was a slight favorite here. Very satisfying win, followed up by 3 straight losses - with NC State and Oklahoma being inferior teams.

Was Syracuse University favored to beat Wisconsin Michigan in 1998? No - SU would've been a small dog here thanks to the refs giving Tennessee the prior game. Great win by a SU team with superior talent to the defending national co-champs as SU dominated them on their home field. This game makes the losses when SU was favored over a mediocre NC State team and average WVU team even more frustrating. And while not a favorite, the poor showing in the Orange Bowl really hurt SU and the BE's perception nationally heading into the post-McNabb period.

Was Syracuse University favored to beat Clemson in 1996? Doubtful - 41-0 win was awesome - 1995 season was very good and only issue with that year by P was the inexplicable loss at home to a bad ECU team when SU was definitely favored. Also not sure of the line when SU got beat down by Va Tech 31-7 at Lane stadium starting a 3 game stretch at that stadium where SU teams were outscored by a combined 124-10 including 62-0 on national TV.

Was Syracuse University favored to beat Va Tech in 2001 or Auburn in 2001? No - after the previous two poor seasons and starting off 2001 at 0-2 they weren't going to be favored against highly regarded teams - especially on the road at Blacksburg (see previous note regarding P's teams in Blacksburg)

Three of the games you listed SU was simply the better, more talented team (Wisconsin, Michigan and Clemson) and I have always admitted that P did a good job in 2001 with no losses to bad teams.

 

[Millhouse]

townie just because we're tired of arguments about whether we should've canned p doesn't mean that we can't ever talk about former coaches.

instead of reading orangepa's mind why not just shut up and wait until he actually brings up some tired argument (which he didn't do here).

 

[OrangeMojo]

heres the College HOF criteria.

1. While each nominee's football achievements are of prime consideration, his post-football record as a citizen is also weighed. He must have proven himself worthy as a citizen, carrying the ideals of football forward into his relations with his community and his fellow man with love of his country.
2. A coach becomes eligible three years after retirement or immediately following retirement provided he is at least 70 years of age. Active coaches become eligible at 75 years of age.
3. The nominee must have held a head coaching position at the collegiate level for at least ten years.
4. The nominee must hold at least a .600 career record over the course of 100 games or more.

hes in.

wow - if those are the criteria - then I have to agree

I stand corrected.

 

[OrangePA]

Was SU favored over 0-9 Rutgers in 1999?

Was SU a 50-pt underdog against VT earlier that year?

Brilliant analysis.

Lets apply some more of your superior intellect.

Don Shula lost to the Jets in the 1969 Super Bowl despite being a 17 point underdog.

Bill Belecheck lost to the Giants in the 2008 Super Bowl despite being a heavy favorite.

Marv Levy lost the Giants in the 1991 Super Bowl despite being a heavy favorite.

Tom Osborne of Nebraska lost to Miami in a NC game despite being a heavy favorite.

So, applying the "Townie Analysis" some of the greatest coaches in the game apparently were not all that great, because on occassion they lost games - the most important ones - that they were not supposed to lose.

The fact is that Pasqualoni won a lot of games and in the ones that counted oftentimes beat teams that he was not supposed to beat.

I do have one question left for you. Given your bad memory, which I think you have clearly demonstrated in this thread, are you sure you actually met Coach P?

 

[OrangePA]

Three of the games you listed SU was simply the better, more talented team (Wisconsin, Michigan and Clemson) and I have always admitted that P did a good job in 2001 with no losses to bad teams.

With all due respect, you're nuts.

The Orange was a dog in all of those games.

 

[CuyahogaCuse]

With all due respect, you're nuts.

The Orange was a dog in all of those games.

I just checked. We were a 2.5 point dog to Clemson, and 8 point favorite against Wisconsin and a 10 point dog on the road at Michigan.


Historical Syracuse Odds Link

 

[OrangeMojo]

With all due respect, you're nuts.

The Orange was a dog in all of those games.

you spend a good portion of this thread criticizing the analysis of others and then in response to my point that correctly stated that SU was a better, more talented team than 3 teams you listed (that they blew out) your "brilliant analysis" to use your term is you're nuts, they were a dog? and you're even wrong about that to boot. We all know that the 1998 team was way better than that UM team they demolished - I'm not sure why you need to try to diminish the great collection of talent on that team to try to prop up your favorite coach's accomplishments.

 

[Townie72]

Brilliant analysis.

Lets apply some more of your superior intellect.

Don Shula lost to the Jets in the 1969 Super Bowl despite being a 17 point underdog.

Bill Belecheck lost to the Giants in the 2008 Super Bowl despite being a heavy favorite.

Marv Levy lost the Giants in the 1991 Super Bowl despite being a heavy favorite.

Tom Osborne of Nebraska lost to Miami in a NC game despite being a heavy favorite.

So, applying the "Townie Analysis" some of the greatest coaches in the game apparently were not all that great, because on occassion they lost games - the most important ones - that they were not supposed to lose.

The fact is that Pasqualoni won a lot of games and in the ones that counted oftentimes beat teams that he was not supposed to beat.

I do have one question left for you. Given your bad memory, which I think you have clearly demonstrated in this thread, are you sure you actually met Coach P?

 

[Townie72]

I'm not going to bother to point out the differences between the 0-9 RU 1999 team and the Namath led Jets.

I met Pasqualoni at at alumni dinner in DC. I have met a number of the coaches through the years. I came away thinking that P's wheels were turning very slowly.

 

[tipphill]

p was a major under acheiver with the talent that mac left him. great guy,good face for the program. in the end he could not recruit thanks to the lag in facilities war outdated etc and the improvement in other programs resources and facilities.

 

[OrangePA]

p was a major under acheiver with the talent that mac left him. great guy,good face for the program. in the end he could not recruit thanks to the lag in facilities war outdated etc and the improvement in other programs resources and facilities.

Coach Mac left with a 7-4-2 record.

Pasqualoni went 10-2 and 10-2 the next two years.

He also went on to win 9 games in three consecutive seasons starting 1995 and had another ten win season in 2001.

 

[OrangePA]

I'm not going to bother to point out the differences between the 0-9 RU 1999 team and the Namath led Jets.

I met Pasqualoni at at alumni dinner in DC. I have met a number of the coaches through the years. I came away thinking that P's wheels were turning very slowly.

Are you sure this is not Millhouse posting under your name?

He's the one who seems to enjoy guaging the intelligence of football coaches and others.

Presuming to measure another person's intelligence on the basis of a single meeting or even a few meetings is a dangerous thing to do. And it's a silly undertaking.

Didn't Jim Boeheim lose a first round NCAA game to fifteen seed Richmond a few years ago? And didn't he lose another first round game to an undermanned Vermont squad a few years ago? I think back in the Louie and Bouie days he lost an early game to the Western Kentucky Hilltoppers.

I'm pretty sure I could come up with a few other examples of great coaches losing games to lousy teams. It happens.

The full measure of P's time at SU is outstanding. Every year that goes by bolsters that conclusion - like it or not.

If he performs well at UConn he will probably be a Hall of Fame coach. It will be interesting to see.

 

[KaiserUEO]

this thread is incredible.

this board is known for declaring every half-arsed, suspect talent, nobody...as a 1st rounder.

this board is known for delcaring every fat-arsed, lazy, moment or 2 of greatness surrounded by years of nothingness...as a HOFer.

Coach Mac, god love him, had 3 good years and hes a Saint.

Coach P had over a decade of success, has an impressive bowl record in an era when bowls still werent a dime a dozen, put more guys in the league than anyone in school history, by all accounts is man of character...cut from the same mold as Parcells and Coughlin...and he cant catch a fluckin break here on syracuse'fan'.com

the reason...yeah he won, but NOT ENOUGH FOR ME!!!

fluckin ridiculous.

you all should be ashamed of yourselves.

get a life and a clue.

Oh Lord