Question for Slow Board Day

[Townie72]

Are you sure this is not Millhouse posting under your name?

He's the one who seems to enjoy guaging the intelligence of football coaches and others.

Presuming to measure another person's intelligence on the basis of a single meeting or even a few meetings is a dangerous thing to do. And it's a silly undertaking.

Didn't Jim Boeheim lose a first round NCAA game to fifteen seed Richmond a few years ago? And didn't he lose another first round game to an undermanned Vermont squad a few years ago? I think back in the Louie and Bouie days he lost an early game to the Western Kentucky Hilltoppers.

I'm pretty sure I could come up with a few other examples of great coaches losing games to lousy teams. It happens.

The full measure of P's time at SU is outstanding. Every year that goes by bolsters that conclusion - like it or not.

If he performs well at UConn he will probably be a Hall of Fame coach. It will be interesting to see.

"The full measure of P's time at SU is outstanding"? Outstanding?

Your defense of P is becoming more shrill and even desperate.

P lost his job because when asked what the problems were and how he might address them he confessed to being "baffled".

I gave him credit at the time for being honest ... but dumb as a post.

If P gets in the Hall of Fame it's because they have the bar set way, way too low. He was then and remains today a mediocrity. An honest, ethical and hard-working mediocrity.

 

[Stern]

The difference between Mac and Paul...

Mac took over a dead program and built it up over time to something special

Pasqualoni took over a top program and eventually tore it down over time

That's why Mac is in and Pasqualoni can buy a ticket to the college football hall of fame like everyone else! I'm not even sure Mac should be in, but if given the option of who should be in its Mac over Pasqualoni 100 times out of 100!

 

[Cuseregular]

The difference between Mac and Paul...

Mac took over a dead program and built it up over time to something special

Pasqualoni took over a top program and eventually tore it down over time

That's why Mac is in and Pasqualoni can buy a ticket to the college football hall of fame like everyone else! I'm not even sure Mac should be in, but if given the option of who should be in its Mac over Pasqualoni 100 times out of 100!

what didn't you hear that it was the horribly subpar facilities when, for one of many examples, against NC state in ultimately an OT loss he gave the ball in the red zone a yard away from a winning TD to a light freshman who proceeded to fumble it, instead of a 250 lb seasoned veteran FB? He must have been thrown off thinking about the crappy weight room when he made that decision (or allowed it if it was D's - of the P+D's - decision).

 

[tipphill]

Coach Mac left with a 7-4-2 record.

Pasqualoni went 10-2 and 10-2 the next two years.

He also went on to win 9 games in three consecutive seasons starting 1995 and had another ten win season in 2001.

he had a nc caliber team and couldn't even win his bowl game

 

[wfschrec]

you spend a good portion of this thread criticizing the analysis of others and then in response to my point that correctly stated that SU was a better, more talented team than 3 teams you listed (that they blew out) your "brilliant analysis" to use your term is you're nuts, they were a dog? and you're even wrong about that to boot. We all know that the 1998 team was way better than that UM team they demolished - I'm not sure why you need to try to diminish the great collection of talent on that team to try to prop up your favorite coach's accomplishments.

Lets not get too carried away here ... Wisconsin was led by Ron Dayne and SU owned him that day ... I was surprised Cuse was favored going in ... but again it was at our home away from home .. the Meadowlands. Michigan only had Tom Brady QBing for crying out loud and they had quite a bit of talent ... the irony is they tanked against a less talented UM team at home ... Clemson ... well Clemson is what Clemson is ... a bunch of under achievers ...

 

[Scooch]

All I know is that this horrific thread makes me long for a good conference realignment discussion.

Serenity now.

 

[Eric15]

I just checked. We were a 2.5 point dog to Clemson, and 8 point favorite against Wisconsin and a 10 point dog on the road at Michigan.


Historical Syracuse Odds Link

Damn you for providing that link, I can't stop reading it.

Just noticed that we were favored in every game of the 1996 season (that infamous 0-2 start vs. UNC and Minnesota and then the heartbreaking home loss to Miami).

 

[All4SU]

Coach Mac left with a 7-4-2 record.

Pasqualoni went 10-2 and 10-2 the next two years.

He also went on to win 9 games in three consecutive seasons starting 1995 and had another ten win season in 2001.

Exactly. Love Coach Mac, but Coach P did what it is nearly impossible to do in CFB if you are not one of the factories, and that is sustain success. And even the "factories" have down periods, as many here like to point out. (In this thread alone, folks have suggested that Miami, Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas and Tennessee were not what that should have been when SU played them.)

There's a reason why the CFB HOF has ten seasons of coaching and .600 record for entry. It's not easy to do.

 

[billsin01]

P was a very good coach, not an elite one. HOFs are generally meaningless b/c they try to compare eras and have no set criteria. I'm not really sure why there is so much debate.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Is this the kind of thing where you check off all four boxes and you're auto in? If so this will be nice recognition for coach P.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[44cuse]

Damn you for providing that link, I can't stop reading it.

Just noticed that we were favored in every game of the 1996 season (that infamous 0-2 start vs. UNC and Minnesota and then the heartbreaking home loss to Miami).

-2.5 and -8 to start the season. Rivaled only by the infamously amazing NC St. Team where we inexplicably let Tory Holt run all over the field because we refused to jam him at the line.

Great thread.

44cuse

 

[44cuse]

P was a very good coach, not an elite one. HOFs are generally meaningless b/c they try to compare eras and have no set criteria. I'm not really sure why there is so much debate.

Hall of Fames are history museums. They exist to record the history of a sport or institution. They should record changes to different eras and accomplishments in different eras.

44cuse

 

[tipphill]

The difference between Mac and Paul...

Mac took over a dead program and built it up over time to something special

Pasqualoni took over a top program and eventually tore it down over time

That's why Mac is in and Pasqualoni can buy a ticket to the college football hall of fame like everyone else! I'm not even sure Mac should be in, but if given the option of who should be in its Mac over Pasqualoni 100 times out of 100!

tore down by the short sighted administration. none the less who ever said it above p did not win enough with the talent he initially had---

 

[Millhouse]

Are you sure this is not Millhouse posting under your name?

He's the one who seems to enjoy guaging the intelligence of football coaches and others.

Presuming to measure another person's intelligence on the basis of a single meeting or even a few meetings is a dangerous thing to do. And it's a silly undertaking.

Didn't Jim Boeheim lose a first round NCAA game to fifteen seed Richmond a few years ago? And didn't he lose another first round game to an undermanned Vermont squad a few years ago? I think back in the Louie and Bouie days he lost an early game to the Western Kentucky Hilltoppers.

I'm pretty sure I could come up with a few other examples of great coaches losing games to lousy teams. It happens.

The full measure of P's time at SU is outstanding. Every year that goes by bolsters that conclusion - like it or not.

If he performs well at UConn he will probably be a Hall of Fame coach. It will be interesting to see.

this is what I get for actually sticking up for you? sheesh. reread the thread.

i also pointed out that RC Slocum made the college football hall of fame. (John Cooper too, but I didn't mention that) no one cares whether the college football hall of fame lets in a lot of people until it happens to let in a coach that people wanted fired because they're worried about giving ammo to people who still wish he was coach. i think that's dumb. i hope he does make it and has a great time with his family there - who cares?

for the record, I couldn't give 2 sh!ts about anyone's opinion based on dinner parties, good or bad. i judge coaches based on what i see in games.

 

[OrangePA]

this is what I get for actually sticking up for you? sheesh. reread the thread.

i also pointed out that RC Slocum made the college football hall of fame. (John Cooper too, but I didn't mention that) no one cares whether the college football hall of fame lets in a lot of people until it happens to let in a coach that people wanted fired because they're worried about giving ammo to people who still wish he was coach. i think that's dumb. i hope he does make it and has a great time with his family there - who cares?

for the record, I couldn't give 2 sh!ts about anyone's opinion based on dinner parties, good or bad. i judge coaches based on what i see in games.

Yeah, I guess it was kind of a cheap shot.

Sorry about that.

I'm sure you'll be ready to pounce once I drag out the same tired arguments for why P should not have been fired.

So, when I do, hit me hard!

 

[OttoMets]

...Truth is that 75% of the games that SU lost in that decade SU had comparable or better talent than their opponent.

An again - in 97 and 98 SU's schedule was full of weak opponents and no dynamos as you call them and P still managed to lose 3 and 4 games in those seasons. In 98 he had enough talent to beat* eventual national champ Tennessee and blow out Michigan on the road - drop 70 pts on Temple and then go and lay an egg against a middle of the pack NC State team. He also managed to lose to an okay West Virginia team despite having better talent...

This is the legitimate concern about Pasqualoni. Forget about the post-McNabb decline; the mid-'90s teams just lost too frequently to inferior teams. Too many Minnesotas, East Carolinas, and North Carolina States out there.

Edit: To be clear, Pasqualoni was a good coach who gave us a good decade of football. At important junctures, though, his teams often looked uninspired or unprepared; they lost to a bunch of inferior teams because of that.

 

[ForCuseSake]

P is a HOFer. He had a great record at SU and was a solid coach. We haven't come close to sniffing his sustained level of achievement since. That alone should make people respect his accomplishments more now and stop trying to tear him down by pointing out his last 3-4 mediocre seasons and What losses.

This comes from someone who grew tired of the P+D show and thought change was needed. I'm not as certain as other posters that P reaching the HOF would be good for SU - especially if he has 3-5 solid seasons at Yukon. Gotta imagine Paul would go in as a Husky given the stuff sammich he ate leaving SU.

I liked Pasqualoni as our coach, a lot. And I hope he never comes close to the level of success he had here at any other FBS school.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

P is a HOFer. He had a great record at SU and was a solid coach. We haven't come close to sniffing his sustained level of achievement since. That alone should make people respect his accomplishments more now and stop trying to tear him down by pointing out his last 3-4 mediocre seasons and What losses.

If you admit that Coach P's last 3-4 seasons were mediocre (actually 4 of his last 6), then he didn't really sustain anything.

He inherited a couple of 10 win teams from Mac. We were down to 9-3/8-4 teams with McNabb, and we averaged 5-6 losses a season post-McNabb.

I don't see a sustained level of achievement. I see a steady decline.

 

[kirbivore]

-2.5 and -8 to start the season. Rivaled only by the infamously amazing NC St. Team where we inexplicably let Tory Holt run all over the field because we refused to jam him at the line.

Great thread.

44cuse

1998 season. wasn't that the year DeLeone was Defensive coordinator?

 

[44cuse]

1998 season. wasn't that the year DeLeone was Defensive coordinator?

Yep. And the defensive plan was to let Tory Holt off the line every time.

44cuse

 

[ForCuseSake]

If you admit that Coach P's last 3-4 seasons were mediocre (actually 4 of his last 6), then he didn't really sustain anything.

He inherited a couple of 10 win teams from Mac. We were down to 9-3/8-4 teams with McNabb, and we averaged 5-6 losses a season post-McNabb.

I don't see a sustained level of achievement. I see a steady decline.

Actually, he fell to 6-4 and 7-4 after his two 10 win seasons w/ Mac's kids and then went on his streak of 9-3/8-4 seasons w/ McNabb. It's revisionist history to suggest his tenure was a steady decline because his last 4 years were mediocre (w/ exception to 2001).

If you were told tomorrow that SU could get a coach who would have three 10 win seasons, be ranked consistently in the top 25, have one losing season and stick around for 14 years...would you hire him?

Forget all the BS comparing quality of conference opponents, inherited players, lack of funding and all the other reasons people give to qualify P's record as great or mediocre.

I think most SU fans would regardless if it was a steady slide from Top 25 to mediocrity. Especially given how much the program has cratered in the past 7 years. And I think fans of most FBS schools would sign up for having that type of coach (not specifically P) running their program.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Actually, he fell to 6-4 and 7-4 after his two 10 win seasons w/ Mac's kids and then went on his streak of 9-3/8-4 seasons w/ McNabb. It's revisionist history to suggest his tenure was a steady decline because his last 4 years were mediocre (w/ exception to 2001).

If you were told tomorrow that SU could get a coach who would have three 10 win seasons, be ranked consistently in the top 25, have one losing season and stick around for 14 years...would you hire him?

SU ended up ranked only 7 times during Coach P's 14 years. It's revisionist history to suggest SU was a "consistent Top 25 team".

 

[ForCuseSake]

SU ended up ranked only 7 times during Coach P's 14 years. It's revisionist history to suggest SU was a "consistent Top 25 team".

So batting .500 w/ Top 25 rankings is inconsistent...Got it.

 

[All4SU]

If you admit that Coach P's last 3-4 seasons were mediocre (actually 4 of his last 6), then he didn't really sustain anything.

He inherited a couple of 10 win teams from Mac. We were down to 9-3/8-4 teams with McNabb, and we averaged 5-6 losses a season post-McNabb.

I don't see a sustained level of achievement. I see a steady decline.

How did he "inherit" a couple of 10 - 2 teams, when Coach Mac went 8-4, and 7-4-2 in his last two seasons at SU? Then P goes 10-2 (5-0). Seriously. Seems to me he inherited a 7-4-2 team any way you look at it, and took it to 10-2. What am I missing here?

 

[44cuse]

So batting .500 w/ Top 25 rankings is inconsistent...Got it.

Yes, it is. If the bar is Top 25 seasons (as your original post suggests as one of the four criteria), then it was only achieved 50% of the time.

More importantly, if you asked me if I wanted a coach who delivered being ranked in the Top 25 50% of the time...I'd tell you no.

44cuse