Question for Slow Board Day

[OrangePA]

Dick McPherson was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame two or three years ago.

Most recently Art Monk was inducted.

Should Paul Pasqualoni be inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame when he retires from the game?

He won over 100 games at SU, won four BE Titles, went to I think 13 bowl games including two Fiesta Bowls, and an Orange Bowl - won I think nine of thirteen of those games and produced the likes of Freeney, McNabb, Bulluck and others.

And all at a small private NE school with a small budget and endowment.

 

[All4SU]

I don't think there should be a question about it. Coach P had an exceptional run as HC at SU. I love Coach Mac, but Coach P's record certainly stands up to Coach Mac's on most criteria -- and better in others.

 

[BlazeOrange]

Name some coaches with similiar resumes that are both in and out of the HOF and lets see who his peers/competition is.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Should Paul Pasqualoni be inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame when he retires from the game?

He won over 100 games at SU, won four BE Titles, went to I think 13 bowl games including two Fiesta Bowls, and an Orange Bowl - won I think nine of thirteen of those games and produced the likes of Freeney, McNabb, Bulluck and others.

And all at a small private NE school with a small budget and endowment.

He went to 9 bowl games. Won 6.

 

[retro44]

i would much rather talk about Brooklyn Decker

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think Coach P is probably in the Syracuse sports HOF, but I don't see him as being HOF for college football in general. It would seem to me he would need to have clearly been in the top 10% of his profession, and I don't think he ever was that well regarded. Had he been, I think he would have met a better end at Syracuse and been brought back into the college ranks much sooner.

There's no doubt P is a good football coach, I just don't think he's HOF worthy.

 

[Stern]

He isn't going to the college football hall of fame. Not even close.

 

[kcsu]

P is a very good person and a solid coach although im not sure he is Hall worthy. I believe he was scheduled to become president of the coaches association the year he was let go. It is shame how his time on the Hill ended.

 

[elimunelson]

You can make a very good argument that P deserves to be in over Dick Mac for sure. And I do think P was highly regarded entering the 93 season. I always look at that season as the one that got away. Top 5 going in and finishing up without a bowl. Imagine if that season was another 10 win season. At that point, you are looking at a historic start to a career with McNabb entering campus in the fall of 1994.

 

[Eric15]

Dick McPherson was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame two or three years ago.

Most recently Art Monk was inducted.

Should Paul Pasqualoni be inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame when he retires from the game?

He won over 100 games at SU, won four BE Titles, went to I think 13 bowl games including two Fiesta Bowls, and an Orange Bowl - won I think nine of thirteen of those games and produced the likes of Freeney, McNabb, Bulluck and others.

And all at a small private NE school with a small budget and endowment.

I'll be honest, I don't think either Coach P or Coach Mac deserves to be anywhere near the Hall of Fame. They're both upstanding men whom I admire, but HOFs should be for the truly elite.

 

[Townie72]

Dick McPherson was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame two or three years ago.

Most recently Art Monk was inducted.

Should Paul Pasqualoni be inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame when he retires from the game?

He won over 100 games at SU, won four BE Titles, went to I think 13 bowl games including two Fiesta Bowls, and an Orange Bowl - won I think nine of thirteen of those games and produced the likes of Freeney, McNabb, Bulluck and others.

And all at a small private NE school with a small budget and endowment.

First, Art Monk being inducted seems to me to be irrelevant. He's obviously being inducted on the basis of his Pro career, since his college career wasn't anything spectacular. He wass good, but not great.

Secondly, if MacPherson is the benchmark and if P qualifies than the Hall of Fame, than the Hall of Fame members list ought to start to resemble the New York City phone directory (if there still is such a thing).

 

[OrangeMojo]

Dick McPherson was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame two or three years ago.

Most recently Art Monk was inducted.

Should Paul Pasqualoni be inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame when he retires from the game?

He won over 100 games at SU, won four BE Titles, went to I think 13 bowl games including two Fiesta Bowls, and an Orange Bowl - won I think nine of thirteen of those games and produced the likes of Freeney, McNabb, Bulluck and others.

And all at a small private NE school with a small budget and endowment.

No - his first two years were his best two years and it was then a pretty steady decline over the rest of his tenure - solid man, good (not great) coach - not HOF worthy. Now if he can replicate that at UConn with their brand new facilities (since the main argument for his decline at Syracuse is he simply didn't have the infrastructure to compete) - then he would have an argument.

I think it was a coup for Coach McPherson to get in there - but he had that undefeated season which likely got him in. P never even sniffed an undefeated season.

 

[HtownOrange]

One differentiation between Mac and P is that Mac had to build a team into a winner and took them to the pinnacle of college football, P took over s well established team and continued success but drifted towards mediocrity. I like both coaches and am thankful for what they did, overall, for the team and the community, wishing both men well. I do think that Mac was the better coach overall and I think P will have a few good years in Storrs, but I don't think UConn reaches the levels P had Syracuse at, let alone where Mac had us.

 

[OrangePA]

No - his first two years were his best two years and it was then a pretty steady decline over the rest of his tenure - solid man, good (not great) coach - not HOF worthy. Now if he can replicate that at UConn with their brand new facilities (since the main argument for his decline at Syracuse is he simply didn't have the infrastructure to compete) - then he would have an argument.

I think it was a coup for Coach McPherson to get in there - but he had that undefeated season which likely got him in. P never even sniffed an undefeated season.

Steady decline?

Didn't he average nine wins during the McNabb years?

And, didn't he win 10 games and beat K-State in a bowl game ten years after he got the job - in 2001?

And weren't his yearly schedules much more competitive than those of Coach Mac? (Didn't Coach P have to play the dominant Miami teams of that era - maybe the best to ever play the game?)

 

[Millhouse]

rc slocum just made it. college football hall of fame is less stringent than other halls so he has a shot.

 

[OrangeMojo]

Steady decline? Yep.

Didn't he average nine wins during the McNabb years? If you round up. He also averaged 3.5 losses/year even though he had one of the dominant players of the era and Miami was on probation for at least two of those years. I'd be surprised if he ended any of those seasons ranked higher than where they started in the pre-season (possibly in 1995).

And, didn't he win 10 games and beat K-State in a bowl game ten years after he got the job - in 2001? Yep - 10 wins including a bowl win over a 6-5 KSU team. Solid season and good coaching job (the Miami game notwithstanding) - unfortunately proved to be an anomaly as it happened during a 6 year stretch where he averaged only 6.5 wins per year. If you want to hold up that year as proof of great coaching then you also have to look at the other 5 surrounding years as mediocre coaching/program stewardship.

And weren't his yearly schedules much more competitive than those of Coach Mac? (Didn't Coach P have to play the dominant Miami teams of that era - maybe the best to ever play the game?)

I'm not sure about much more competitive - in the 1990s the BE schedule basically had 4 guaranteed wins built in each season in Rutgers/Temple/Pitt and either BC or WVU alternating as crappy teams. That 1987 schedule stacks up against anything P faced during the McNabb / Miami probation years. In 1996 and 1997 SU outscored its opponents 401-191 and 423-191 and still managed to lose 3 and 4 games respectively.

As I mentioned in my OP - I think Mac getting in was a coup - meaning I'm not sure he had the record to support it - but he was able to go undefeated.

 

[PhatOrange]

Isn't P also the All-Time winningest coach in Big East History?

 

[Townie72]

I wonder what percent of Orange PA's 1700+ posts have been devoted to defending Pasqualoni? A pretty hefty percentage I would say. Its an argument he never seems to tire of.

His latest attempt is this Trojan Horse of a question asking whether P should be in the HOF.

I was one who knew P had to go. I always had the very strong impression after meeting him and listening to him and trying to sort through what he was saying that Pasqualoni was dumb. A good guy and a hard worker, but just not very smart. Only in sports and entertainment can you be that dumb and still make a lot of money.

 

[All4SU]

I wonder what percent of Orange PA's 1700+ posts have been devoted to defending Pasqualoni? A pretty hefty percentage I would say. Its an argument he never seems to tire of.

His latest attempt is this Trojan Horse of a question asking whether P should be in the HOF.

I was one who knew P had to go. I always had the very strong impression after meeting him and listening to him and trying to sort through what he was saying that Pasqualoni was dumb. A good guy and a hard worker, but just not very smart. Only in sports and entertainment can you be that dumb and still make a lot of money.

Lot's of OPA's posts are P related to be sure. I understand folks getting a little tired of it. But this thread was a worthwhile question.

Like most, I finally came around to the idea that Coach P had to go. Not because I didn't believe he could get it done, or that I though he was "not very smart," but because the community/fans gave up on him. Too much negativity was hurting the program as much as the lack of facilities.

Of course, the way it was handled was an embarrassment.

 

[OrangePA]

I'm not sure about much more competitive - in the 1990s the BE schedule basically had 4 guaranteed wins built in each season in Rutgers/Temple/Pitt and either BC or WVU alternating as crappy teams. That 1987 schedule stacks up against anything P faced during the McNabb / Miami probation years. In 1996 and 1997 SU outscored its opponents 401-191 and 423-191 and still managed to lose 3 and 4 games respectively.

As I mentioned in my OP - I think Mac getting in was a coup - meaning I'm not sure he had the record to support it - but he was able to go undefeated.

Oh my. You do recall the Gino Torretta teams that P battled don't you?

And you do recall that the 2001 Miami team was the greatest college football team of all time, right?

The Hurricanes led Nebraska 34-0 at halftime of the NC game for gosh sakes.

Syracuse University never had dominant talent - it had a number of good players and a few great ones - maybe three or four over the 13 years Pasqualoni was at the helm - Freeney, Bulluck, McNabb, Harrison. The fan base overestimated the talent level of those teams.

The 1987 team was a wonderful team, but it faced a relatively weak regular season schedule that included Colgate, Navy, Rutgers, a mediocre Missouri team, an okay Va Tech team, and a Penn State team that was not particularly competitive. It never faced the kind of athletic dynamo that was Miami in the 1990s.

 

[All4SU]

The 1987 team was a wonderful team, but it faced a relatively weak regular season schedule that included Colgate, Navy, Rutgers, a mediocre Missouri team, an okay Va Tech team, and a Penn State team that was not particularly competitive. It never faced the kind of athletic dynamo that was Miami in the 1990s.

Agree with that. A magical season, but one that was against a schedule that was less than most of the 90s schedules.

 

[OrangePA]

I wonder what percent of Orange PA's 1700+ posts have been devoted to defending Pasqualoni? A pretty hefty percentage I would say. Its an argument he never seems to tire of.

His latest attempt is this Trojan Horse of a question asking whether P should be in the HOF.

I was one who knew P had to go. I always had the very strong impression after meeting him and listening to him and trying to sort through what he was saying that Pasqualoni was dumb. A good guy and a hard worker, but just not very smart. Only in sports and entertainment can you be that dumb and still make a lot of money.

I am surprised that your outstanding intellect did not immediately realize that my intention was to create discussion by posting something about Pasqualoni.

Do you think we should now re-assess your characterization of P's intelligence???

 

[kcsu]

Orange do you think he belongs in the Hall and do you think he will get in?

 

[Townie72]

I am surprised that your outstanding intellect did not immediately realize that my intention was to create discussion by posting something about Pasqualoni.

Do you think we should now re-assess your characterization of P's intelligence???

My intellect is OK ... Its my memory that's the problem. After responding once, it dawned on me that it was P's greatest fan, who had come up with a new and clever way to rewrite history.

I don't think you are trying to provoke discussion. I don't think this is any slower day than most. I think it's chapter 299 in Orange PA's on-going and never -ending campaign to rehabilitate the P legend at SU.

I'll stick with my impression that P wasn't very smart. Now this is just my impression. I haven't seen his SAT scores or his college grades from Central Ct State or anything like that. I haven't seen the results of any P IQ tests. I only have a lifetime of listening to smart and not-so-smart people talk on which to base my opinion.

 

[All4SU]

I'll stick with my impression that P wasn't very smart. Now this is just my impression. I haven't seen his SAT scores or his college grades from Central Ct State or anything like that. I haven't seen the results of any P IQ tests.

Coach P went to Penn State.