Question(s) for sutomcat

[Nick44]

I've appreciated your recent insight and support for Marrone despite this 5-7 finish. You posted several times in favor of Marrone going forward which is why I am directing this to you.You mentioned in another post that the only 2 concerns that you have about this program:

1. ability to fundraise
2. the scheme on offense

With that said, what is your opinion about him losing this team to finish 0-5? Do you think he lost this team? Going into this year I think we all would've thought Marrone would be the last one to lose a team. Not necessarily because he is a genious coach but because he is so detail-oriented and has no problem with removing someone who does not support his vision. Did the players not think he could lead them to there goals (Big East Championship) and therefore did not give 100% at the first sign of adversity?

Was there some type of mutiny going on??

Finally, in 2008, right before the Robinson firing, ESPN interviewed Jim Brown who said that having talent is great but even with limited talent, football players can still make tackles, make correct blocks etc. At many times this year, this team did not do that adeqaetly thus costing us games. How could Marrone let this happen for most of the season? Especially because in 2009, when this team had supposedly LESS talent than in 2011, these types of errors were not as prevalent as this year. At least missed tackles weren't.

That is my biggest concern with Doug at this point. Either players weren't on the same page with him or he didn't have these guys on board with his vision.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[javadoc]

Without reviewing the roster and the entire list of penalties etc., I think you saw exactly what you would expect this year from a young team, with some guys playing who probably could have used a RS year, and some guys who were the best we had, but who were either asked to perform above their ability, or who are going to make certain mistakes no matter what. Nothing mysterious.

 

[sutomcat]

I've appreciated your recent insight and support for Marrone despite this 5-7 finish. You posted several times in favor of Marrone going forward which is why I am directing this to you.You mentioned in another post that the only 2 concerns that you have about this program:

1. ability to fundraise
2. the scheme on offense

With that said, what is your opinion about him losing this team to finish 0-5? Do you think he lost this team? Going into this year I think we all would've thought Marrone would be the last one to lose a team. Not necessarily because he is a genious coach but because he is so detail-oriented and has no problem with removing someone who does not support his vision. Did the players not think he could lead them to there goals (Big East Championship) and therefore did not give 100% at the first sign of adversity?

Was there some type of mutiny going on??

Finally, in 2008, right before the Robinson firing, ESPN interviewed Jim Brown who said that having talent is great but even with limited talent, football players can still make tackles, make correct blocks etc. At many times this year, this team did not do that adeqaetly thus costing us games. How could Marrone let this happen for most of the season? Especially because in 2009, when this team had supposedly LESS talent than in 2011, these types of errors were not as prevalent as this year. At least missed tackles weren't.

That is my biggest concern with Doug at this point. Either players weren't on the same page with him or he didn't have these guys on board with his vision.

Thanks for the insight.

Don't have a lot of time to respond right now, perhaps I can get back to this later if this proves inadequate. I'll try and answer your questions one by one...

With that said, what is your opinion about him losing this team to finish 0-5? Do you think he lost this team?

When I hear the phrase 'lost the team', I think of a team that stopped trying and just gave up.

I don't think that happened...the team played hard all season long. They got discouraged at times, lost discipline, lost confidence at times, made a lot of mistakes, did some foolish things, bad penalties, etc. but if anything, many of the problems were caused by trying too hard...over pursuing on defense was a constant problem, late hits, jumping off sides, etc.

Did the players not think he could lead them to their goals (Big East Championship) and therefore did not give 100% at the first sign of adversity?
Was there some type of mutiny going on??

Again, I don't believe they gave up or failed to give 100%. Maybe the defense a little in one of the last home games (Cincinnati I think) late in the season. They didn't gang tackle that game as much as they normally did. But I think it was more a bunch of discouraged kids than disenchantment at work.

How could Marrone let this (missed tackles and blocks; execution in generla) happen for most of the season?

I think most of the problems with missed tackles were a function of playing a young defense that was unfortunately hit hard with injuries throughout the season. We had games where all 4 starters in the secondary were playing with casts on, games where we played walk ons more than half the snaps, Phil Thomas was hurt, playing hurt or suspended most of the season, Sharmarko was not healthy all season, Anderson had a cast on and leg problems, Scott played banged up all season, Lyn had mono and struggled with multiple injuries, Chandler Jones got hurt early, missed close to half the season and while he was still one of our best players, was not at the same level he was when he returned. All of our LBs were playing their positions for the first time as starters, all were badly undersized...we had a lot of inexperienced and banged up players out there every week and it is probably a miracle they were able to play as well as they did given everything that they were up against this season.

On offense, the OL blocked poorly early in the season but I thought they improved as the season went on. Still did not do a good job pass blocking...Hay in particular had a brutal season here. But even they was better than last season and it improved as the season progressed and I thought the run blocking was much improved the second half of the season, when we faced a lot of BE teams that were strong against the run.

You can't ignore a 5 game losing streak. It was ugly football, the offense was brutal to watch, the special teams were awful. But still, we were in those games to the end and could have easily won 3 or 4 of them. I am not saying we should have, just that we could have.

A modest improvement from the offensive unit, just adequate special teams and a return to solid play from the defense and I think we have a good chance to get 4 or 5 conference wins next season. In the watered down world of the BE, the difference between 1-6 and 6-1 is not a lot...as we saw with Cincinnati and Rutgers this season.

I am a lot more optimistic about the 2012 season than the 2011 season. I can't imagine special teams will not be much better than it was in 2011. I can't imagine the defense will not be much better than it was in 2011. And I expect the offense will be better in 2012 as well. Not a top 20 unit but somewhere in the middle of the pack in the conference. That should be good enough to win somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 games.

This might change if we get some injuries, if we lose a couple of key players to transfer (like Lyn) or to the NFL (Jones). The depth on the team is much better than it has been in a long time but it isn't good enough to cover the loss of some of our top players.

When I evaluate a team, I like to look at the number of senior players the team will have in key leadership positions. That seems to be one of the criteria that is very important towards determining success for a given season. We didn't have much in the way of senior leaders on the 2011 team, which is one of the reasons I was sceptical we would be able to earn a bowl bid. Next season, we should have a bunch of them: Nassib, Lemon, Graham, Chibane, Jones, Goggins, Boatman, Vaughn, S Thomas, etc.

Already lost 2 important players from that class in P Thomas and Adam Harris. I hope that we don't lose any more.

 

[orangepassion]

The problem w/ thinkingSpecial teams will be improved next year is it has been brutal for all 3 years of his tenure. If he doesn't bring in an experienced College ST coach, I don't see why it should be better.

 

[Nick44]

Thank you for the feedback. I have to think that if it was up to Marrone, he would much rather stay in the Big East next year.

Also, regarding the offense, everyone is adamant that we need to find the next 4/5 star game changer or else it is never going to improve. While I don't disagree, I think 1 or 2 guys like Mike Jones would be huge. Couple that with better run and pass blocking and fewer stupid penalities and this offense drastically improves. I don't think thats too much too ask. But getting a David Perkins would be nice too.

 

[ImperialOrange]

The problem w/ thinkingSpecial teams will be improved next year is it has been brutal for all 3 years of his tenure. If he doesn't bring in an experienced College ST coach, I don't see why it should be better.

Look at the names and the classes of the people that have been on special teams the last 3 years. Alot of guys that were too young or not equipped to be on the field but there due to lack of numbers. Having some experience in there should help. If Fisher and Krautman get a bit more distance and hangtime on their kicks next year
that alone would be huge.

 

[javadoc]

If Fisher and Krautman get a bit more distance and hangtime on their kicks next year

Aren't we bringing in a soccer guy who has a strong leg and teaching him how to kick off? Someone already in school, I thought.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Aren't we bringing in a soccer guy who has a strong leg and teaching him how to kick off? Someone already in school, I thought.

Thought he was a Senior who walked on after soccer ended. Was a potential band aid rather than a long term solution. He couldnt get much hang time on his kicks so unless he could sail them through the end zone or Ross' leg fell off we weren't going to see him.

If Ross is healthy next year he should be able to get it done. Goal line on kickoffs any way since he was getting alot inside the 5 when healthy.

 

[Faegan]

Aren't we bringing in a soccer guy who has a strong leg and teaching him how to kick off? Someone already in school, I thought.

I would be so happy if we could find someone who could do nothing other than kick the ball out the back of the end zone every time. Our kick coverage has to get better.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Thought he was a Senior who walked on after soccer ended. Was a potential band aid rather than a long term solution. He couldnt get much hang time on his kicks so unless he could sail them through the end zone or Ross' leg fell off we weren't going to see him.

Yeah, he was a senior and he gone by the Cincy game. Couldn't get enough hang under the ball.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Yeah, he was a senior and he gone by the Cincy game. Couldn't get enough hang under the ball.

Temp job. When Kratuman was hurt, Marrone wanted a back-up on the roster just in case Raupers got hurt.

 

[007]

Unless punting and kick off distances improve, SU will continue to lose field position battle next year even if the tacking and coverage improves.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Unless punting and kick off distances improve, SU will continue to lose field position battle next year even if the tacking and coverage improves.

I don't see why distances won't improve. Fisher will have a year of S&C under his belt and I've heard the coaches are looking for a kick off specialist.

That said, I'd rather see guys gunning down the field and forcing fair catches and returns under 20 yards.

 

[orangepassion]

Look at the names and the classes of the people that have been on special teams the last 3 years. Alot of guys that were too young or not equipped to be on the field but there due to lack of numbers. Having some experience in there should help. If Fisher and Krautman get a bit more distance and hangtime on their kicks next year
that alone would be huge.

Who is Rutgers putting out there on special teams? All seniors? Why should we still be low on numbers in year 3?

 

[sutomcat]

I don't see why distances won't improve. Fisher will have a year of S&C under his belt and I've heard the coaches are looking for a kick off specialist.

That said, I'd rather see guys gunning down the field and forcing fair catches and returns under 20 yards.

I agree. I thought Fisher started off his frosh year okay, kicked really poorly in the middle of the year, then slowly got better as the season progressed. Watching him practice, he has a really strong leg. I think he just had a hard time adjusting to the speed of D1 football and really rushed his punts for a while. I think he is going to be fine for the next 3 years.

And LeMoyne is right, we are going to bring in a preferred walk on frosh with a strong leg specifically to focus on kick offs. Both these areas should be significantly better in 2012 (and hopefully having someone specialize in kicking off will save wear and tear on the legs of Krautman and Fisher).

We have to do a better job blocking on the return teams, especially the punt return team. We rarely even inhibit the gunners on the punting team, which is why Rene was the king of the fair catch this season. I can only think we made so many penalties trying to block the gunners that the staff decided to just let them go and take the fair catch. That isn't an acceptable way to handle that problem.

The KO return team rarely opened holes and like the punt return team, they piled up an astonishing number of penalties. Terrible judgment, terrible technique, over and over. In fairness to the staff, we had a lot of players on specials hurt for part or most of the season (P Thomas, S Thomas, George, Foster, Lyn, Fisher, Gulley, etc.) and they had to constantly find replacements/change roles for personnel. Better depth will help avoid situations where you had Chandler Jones playing specials late in the year on a bad knee, along side walk ons and players who were 3rd or 4th choices for specific roles on the special teams units.

 

[GoSU96]

One change

I agree. I thought Fisher started off his frosh year okay, kicked really poorly in the middle of the year, then slowly got better as the season progressed. Watching him practice, he has a really strong leg. I think he just had a hard time adjusting to the speed of D1 football and really rushed his punts for a while. I think he is going to be fine for the next 3 years.

And LeMoyne is right, we are going to bring in a preferred walk on frosh with a strong leg specifically to focus on kick offs. Both these areas should be significantly better in 2012 (and hopefully having someone specialize in kicking off will save wear and tear on the legs of Krautman and Fisher).

We have to do a better job blocking on the return teams, especially the punt return team. We rarely even inhibit the gunners on the punting team, which is why Rene was the king of the fair catch this season. I can only think we made so many penalties trying to block the gunners that the staff decided to just let them go and take the fair catch. That isn't an acceptable way to handle that problem.

The KO return team rarely opened holes and like the punt return team, they piled up an astonishing number of penalties. Terrible judgment, terrible technique, over and over. In fairness to the staff, we had a lot of players on specials hurt for part or most of the season (P Thomas, S Thomas, George, Foster, Lyn, Fisher, Gulley, etc.) and they had to constantly find replacements/change roles for personnel. Better depth will help avoid situations where you had Chandler Jones playing specials late in the year on a bad knee, along side walk ons and players who were 3rd or 4th choices for specific roles on the special teams units.

One thing that changed this year over prior years is that they redshirted players that in the past three years would have been playing specials if nothing else.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Who is Rutgers putting out there on special teams? All seniors? Why should we still be low on numbers in year 3?

Have no idea who they had on specials, do you? I don't even know if their special teams were any good aside from their FG defense.

I don't even have a list of who our starters were on specials the last few years. What I saw this year is that we had a bunch of 1st year players and walk ons. Having a couple on there isn't terrible, having half of the unit consist of them or the walking wounded isn't ideal.

Why would they be so low in year 3? Because of the roster purge prior to the 2009 season. Was a calculated risk to get us to this point where we have (in theory) faster and better players with a couple years in the system vs players that weren't ever going to contribute. We're only 2 years removed from Marrones first full recruiting class where a fair amount of those players are either on the 2 deep where we couldnt risk injury or redshirting. The 2009 class was only 14 commits, 3 of which are no longer on the team.
Even just having the guys we redshirted this past year avail for special teams without worry of burning potential redshirts should give the coaches many more options.