Quincy Guerrier to test the NBA and enter the portal

[Alsacs]

Okay, just to be on the same page, if you were coaching Syracuse and Q put his name in the draft, your policy would have been let's wait and see what happens with Q before we bring other forwards in. That is your policy, right?
Now as far as Braswell and Woody, i would rather have Jimmy Jr and Cole than those two. Other can disagree. That is fine with me. But Cole and Jimmy Jr will help us win more games next year than Braswell and Woody would. And that is what is the bottom line.

Put Q in the discussion when talking about Braswell and Cole as well.

 

[Day2]

Put Q in the discussion when talking about Braswell and Cole as well.

Yep, two of them aren't here and one is. Your argument is that we should have gone with only Williams and Swider while waiting for Guerrier to make a final decision (which he still hasn't done yet), because there would be players in the portal (whom you have been unable to identify).

 

[Alsacs]

Yep, two of them aren't here and one is. Your argument is that we should have gone with only Williams and Swider while waiting for Guerrier to make a final decision (which he still hasn't done yet), because there would be players in the portal (whom you have been unable to identify).

You freaking complained I gave you a list 2 weeks old.
OMG it’s 2 weeks old and 13 of the 15 are still available but good job.

 

[dasher]

Put Q in the discussion when talking about Braswell and Cole as well.

Why? Q left to go to the pros. He did that. Not jb. No coach with any brains would have waited for Q. By the way, I would rather have Cole than Q. Throw out the 3rd team All ACC. If Q was on Nova, he wouldn't have started there. We will be more successful with the guys that we have coming in than the guys we had leave. With the exception of the guard position. Kadary is better than Torrence.

 

[Day2]

You freaking complained I gave you a list 2 weeks old.
OMG it’s 2 weeks old and 13 of the 15 are still available but good job.

And one of the two who isn't still available was one of the only forwards on the list.

What's so hard about posting the current list?

The 15 best players currently in the transfer portal: Version 8.0

It’s mid-May, we are currently in Version 8.0 of the “15 best players currently in the transfer portal” and something just struck me as I began to write this piece: My relationship with the portal is basically like that scene in the “Godfather III” where Al Pacino says “Just when I thought I was...

kentuckysportsradio.com

Could it be because there are only two forwards not named Guerrier on there? One is Marcus Bagley, who - like Guerrier - is testing the NBA. The other is Jordan Brown, who just entered the portal.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

If Q came back, Junior would have played somewhere else.

Show me the players who are still available and better than Junior.

I don't think so. I think Jr came in prepared to be the 4th forward if it came to that. And that is a hard position to fill in the covid era, so I think SU is lucky. QG could have come back and Jr would have taken a back seat.

To further support that point look on the recruiting page for Kaluma. Seems like SU is involved with this top 35 player. I think if Kaluma commits you won't see Jr in the portal.

IMO, it's possible JB prodded QG into a decision because things started to look real with Kaluma.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think the better question is if QG never declared then do we actually go after Cole?

 

[dasher]

I think the better question is if QG never declared then do we actually go after Cole?

Yes. The coaches view Cole as a elite shooter. That is the word. No one will be able to do to us what Houston did. Double Buddy on the high pick and roll. Cole will make them suffer for that.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yes. The coaches view Cole as a elite shooter. That is the word. No one will be able to do to us what Houston did. Double Buddy on the high pick and roll. Cole will make them suffer for that.

Thanks. Consider myself corrected then.

 

[Day2]

I don't think so. I think Jr came in prepared to be the 4th forward if it came to that. And that is a hard position to fill in the covid era, so I think SU is lucky. QG could have come back and Jr would have taken a back seat.

To further support that point look on the recruiting page for Kaluma. Seems like SU is involved with this top 35 player. I think if Kaluma commits you won't see Jr in the portal.

IMO, it's possible JB prodded QG into a decision because things started to look real with Kaluma.

Your points about Kaluma are interesting and a definite possibility.

I go back to JB's comments ahead of Junior's decision. He gave the impression that Junior would only come to SU if he had a chance to play. And remember, Junior posted on Instagram that he would be making an announcement soon, then it took over a week before the actual announcement.

What was going on during that time period? Did the staff check up on Guerrier to see if he was staying in the draft? Or did Guerrier see Junior's post and reach out to the staff to let them know he might coming back? Were the two sides trying to work something out?

 

[Bball44]

Your points about Kaluma are interesting and a definite possibility.

I go back to JB's comments ahead of Junior's decision. He gave the impression that Junior would only come to SU if he had a chance to play. And remember, Junior posted on Instagram that he would be making an announcement soon, then it took over a week before the actual announcement.

What was going on during that time period? Did the staff check up on Guerrier to see if he was staying in the draft? Or did Guerrier see Junior's post and reach out to the staff to let them know he might coming back? Were the two sides trying to work something out?

It seemed that Jimmy made the decision to come after Marek went and AG went pro. JB said at the time 4 fowards was the goal.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Your points about Kaluma are interesting and a definite possibility.

I go back to JB's comments ahead of Junior's decision. He gave the impression that Junior would only come to SU if he had a chance to play. And remember, Junior posted on Instagram that he would be making an announcement soon, then it took over a week before the actual announcement.

What was going on during that time period? Did the staff check up on Guerrier to see if he was staying in the draft? Or did Guerrier see Junior's post and reach out to the staff to let them know he might coming back? Were the two sides trying to work something out?

Interesting, I came away with a different feel/perspective. I thought JB talked about needing/wanting 4 forwards.

From my perspective the delay in Jr's announcement was waiting until Woody announced that he was leaving. The words and timing were carefully crafted to show that Jr was thought to be the replacement for Woody.

I think the serious involvement with Kaluma show the staff is communicating this position.

 

[Day2]

It seemed that Jimmy made the decision to come after Marek went and AG went pro. JB said at the time 4 fowards was the goal.

He also said they already had three before Junior committed.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

look for them to tap into one more transfer (I'm thinking grad transfer just cuz they are trying to nabb a few forwards for 2022). Someone mid-major, no mind blowing stats but can either slide G to or to C (thinking more of the G to , Hughes mold)

 

[Day2]

Interesting, I came away with a different feel/perspective. I thought JB talked about needing/wanting 4 forwards.

From my perspective the delay in Jr's announcement was waiting until Woody announced that he was leaving. The words and timing were carefully crafted to show that Jr was thought to be the replacement for Woody.

I think the serious involvement with Kaluma show the staff is communicating this position.

Just to clarify the timeline: Newton entered the portal on April 6th. Junior said he would announce his decision “soon” on April 7th. Then they both announced on the 16th. So this does line up (and I remember posting that Junior would make his announcement within two hours right after Newton made his).

The only thing that might indicate this was more of a coincidence is that the local media was already expecting Junior to announce on the 16th (17th at the latest). Did the staff know Newton’s timeline? Nothing was leaked or even foreshadowed.

 

[djcon57]

Yes. The coaches view Cole as a elite shooter. That is the word. No one will be able to do to us what Houston did. Double Buddy on the high pick and roll. Cole will make them suffer for that.

hope Buddy is working on his drive game

 

[cuseincincy]

I would agree that Quincy wants to NOT play the 4. Personally I think he sees himself as a swingman and more of a 2 than a 3. He wants to be a shooter. Quincy's problem going to any other school will be the same one he faces at Syracuse. Skill wise in college, he is a 4. And that often leaves him undersized, but also able to take advantage against smaller opponents. If Q truly were an NBA level talent he would not care less if Jimmy Jr or Cole or anyone else joined the team. I don't know what is more frustrating to me, the fact that JB seems to be limiting his roster this season or the people that freakout every time we do bring a player in because then that means someone else won't get the playing time they deserve...blah blah blah.

 

[Sherman20]

Exactly, no one is acting badly here. Jb had to protect his program and Q is looking out for his future.

As has been mentioned a few times, the biggest issue is timing because of the pandemic. It’s not Q’s fault nor is it SU’s fault. The deadline to withdraw from the NBA draft is in July. Last year was even worse as the date was early August. That date used to always be in May. That later date makes it tough for a coach to “wait”. We had to cover ourselves by going out and getting Swider and Boeheim.

See, I disagree with you here. We did not have to bring in Jimmy Jr. or could have held off til Q decided (it already seems like he’s leaning towards returning to college!). Jr. is just not going to be as good as Quincy, so it would have been worth it to wait for Q to decide. Cole and Benny are basically Braswell and Griff replacements. JB did what was best for him and his self interest to coach both his sons in one last hurrah (which it’s fair to argue he deserves after 45 years). At the very least, JB could have told Quincy, if you want to return, you’ll get 35mpg at SF and I’ll move Jimmy to center or only play him sparingly if need be, and run Benny and Cole at the other forward spot.

 

[Cuseball]

JB has (by luck, foresight, or whatever) set things up very nicely with our forwards for next season, and to argue otherwise is just being obstinate for the sake of...?

Now our guards on the other hand - jury is out
(I *hope* Torrence makes a big step up and I *hope* JG is working as @ss off this off-season)

100% agreed. the forward position has worked out well. Got to give credit to the staff for being on top of things and potentially making us stronger as a forward group. The idea Jimmy should just sit by and wait for Quincy to decide what he wanted makes little sense. As others have said, if Jimmy did twiddle his thumbs and not secure talent at the forward spot, he would be criticized by the same people complaining here.

Cuse!

 

[orangeinnyc]

See, I disagree with you here. We did not have to bring in Jimmy Jr. or could have held off til Q decided (it already seems like he’s leaning towards returning to college!). Jr. is just not going to be as good as Quincy, so it would have been worth it to wait for Q to decide. Cole and Benny are basically Braswell and Griff replacements. JB did what was best for him and his self interest to coach both his sons in one last hurrah (which it’s fair to argue he deserves after 45 years). At the very least, JB could have told Quincy, if you want to return, you’ll get 35mpg at SF and I’ll move Jimmy to center or only play him sparingly if need be, and run Benny and Cole at the other forward spot.

I disagree. Cole and Benny are replacements for Q and AG. Jimmy Jr is gonna be the replacement for Braswell. What I think is a bit ridiculous is you saying JB acted selfishly and not in the best interest of the team by not waiting on Q to decide about the draft. That’s a load of BS. He made the best decision for SU. You just can’t wait around and hope Q decides to come back. If he ends up going pro we are left with a major hole at forward. By doing what we did we now have a very good forward group which should be a major strength. If we wait until the draft deadline there is no chance Swider is still around. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

 

[Sherman20]

The players shouldn’t be pressured.
If we told Q we were replacing him then in essence we moved on from him.
I think players should have the right to enter the draft and not worry about their schools moving on from them.

Jimmy Jr. is not worth telling moving on from Q for.
This is where I can’t defend the action.
Swider in essence replaced AG.
Not being able to wait for Q is not protecting the school.
Since we only play 7 guys anyway. Again I have said this there are players still available now. Maybe you think they aren’t as good as Jimmy or maybe they are. However we didn’t want to wait for Q. Now that he is looking at other schools and not pro basketball that is garbage.

JB chose to move on. He wanted Jimmy Jr.
If Q came back would Jimmy even play?

I agree with all this. JB manipulated the situation so he could coach his two sons one last year. Maybe he deserves that. But either way, I think we’re gonna look at Quincy killing it next year at Illinois or Oregon and wish we had held onto him over one dimensional forwards like Cole and Jimmy. We better hope Benny is a stud or the forward positions will be a weakness, especially with defense and rebounding.

 

[Day2]

See, I disagree with you here. We did not have to bring in Jimmy Jr. or could have held off til Q decided (it already seems like he’s leaning towards returning to college!). Jr. is just not going to be as good as Quincy, so it would have been worth it to wait for Q to decide. Cole and Benny are basically Braswell and Griff replacements. JB did what was best for him and his self interest to coach both his sons in one last hurrah (which it’s fair to argue he deserves after 45 years). At the very least, JB could have told Quincy, if you want to return, you’ll get 35mpg at SF and I’ll move Jimmy to center or only play him sparingly if need be, and run Benny and Cole at the other forward spot.

It's not fair to Junior to tell him to wait. It could have cost him a spot at another school.

As Alsacs is slowly coming to realize, there aren't a lot of forward options in the portal.

It's not a matter of Junior being better than Guerrier... he isn't. It's a matter of having at least three solid options at forward next year. A month ago, the coaching staff ensured we would have that.

 

[Day2]

I agree with all this. JB manipulated the situation so he could coach his two sons one last year. Maybe he deserves that. But either way, I think we’re gonna look at Quincy killing it next year at Illinois or Oregon and wish we had held onto him over one dimensional forwards like Cole and Jimmy. We better hope Benny is a stud or the forward positions will be a weakness, especially with defense and rebounding.

Did JB tell Guerrier to test the draft?

 

[Orangezoo]

I disagree. Cole and Benny are replacements for Q and AG. Jimmy Jr is gonna be the replacement for Braswell. What I think is a bit ridiculous is you saying JB acted selfishly and not in the best interest of the team by not waiting on Q to decide about the draft. That’s a load of BS. He made the best decision for SU. You just can’t wait around and hope Q decides to come back. If he ends up going pro we are left with a major hole at forward. By doing what we did we now have a very good forward group which should be a major strength. If we wait until the draft deadline there is no chance Swider is still around. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

In fairness Jesse developing, BS if healthy and Frank combined with Benny make up a replacement for Q and then hopefully some on top of that given the benefit of a true center.

 

[Sherman20]

That is completely ridiculous. I mean, shocking coming from someone as smart as you. If any player puts their name in the draft, the school has to assume that the player is leaving. That is what putting your name in the draft means. In that case, the school, any school, has to make sure that they can have good players to replace that player. To do anything else is coaching malfeasance. And you know that. If Q stays in the draft or goes overseas, what then? What would you say then when we don't have a suitable replacement this winter? I know what you would say. That this is on jb and he should have been prepared for Q's loss. Heck, that is what we heard when a player got hurt in the first game last year.
This is all for naught anyway. Q didn't move on because jb told him that he wouldn't play or start. He most likely would have started and he would certainly have played. He put his name in the portal because he wants to play more like a 3. And that wouldn't be what jb views as best for the team. Contrary to what you think, no one has done anything wrong here. If Q didn't put his name in the draft, he would have been assured of his spot here. He did put his name in the draft and Syracuse protected itself. End of story.

It’s been said over and over that the 3 and 4 positions are interchangeable at SU especially on defense, so what you say about him wanting to play the 3 more doesn’t really make sense. And Quincy and his camp know that anywhere he goes he’s going to be asked to play both inside AND outside like he was last season at Syracuse. No school is gonna just let him hang out on the perimeter and shoot 3s. Now if he improves his dribble significantly in the off-season, that changes the equation. He’d be more versatile and valuable overall and def the focus of the offense here. But that doesn’t hinge on where he goes to college or his coaches. That hinges on Quincy himself and whether or not he can improve that aspect of his game.