Quincy Guerrier to test the NBA and enter the portal

[CuseRunner]

That is completely ridiculous. I mean, shocking coming from someone as smart as you. If any player puts their name in the draft, the school has to assume that the player is leaving. That is what putting your name in the draft means. In that case, the school, any school, has to make sure that they can have good players to replace that player. To do anything else is coaching malfeasance. And you know that. If Q stays in the draft or goes overseas, what then? What would you say then when we don't have a suitable replacement this winter? I know what you would say. That this is on jb and he should have been prepared for Q's loss. Heck, that is what we heard when a player got hurt in the first game last year.
This is all for naught anyway. Q didn't move on because jb told him that he wouldn't play or start. He most likely would have started and he would certainly have played. He put his name in the portal because he wants to play more like a 3. And that wouldn't be what jb views as best for the team. Contrary to what you think, no one has done anything wrong here. If Q didn't put his name in the draft, he would have been assured of his spot here. He did put his name in the draft and Syracuse protected itself. End of story.

I'm the biggest Jb defender here. But I agree he prob nudged Quincy and AG out so Jimmy would have more playing time and he could coach potentially start both sons.

 

[Sherman20]

Why? Q left to go to the pros. He did that. Not jb. No coach with any brains would have waited for Q. By the way, I would rather have Cole than Q. Throw out the 3rd team All ACC. If Q was on Nova, he wouldn't have started there. We will be more successful with the guys that we have coming in than the guys we had leave. With the exception of the guard position. Kadary is better than Torrence.

Cole is better than Q? that’s quite a statement. Hope you’re right but I don’t see that at all.

 

[CuseRunner]

I was going to like this but nah. Go like Bees stuff please. Q leaving to play at another school is a joke:

I agree we have never had a player as good as him leave this point into his college career not for the NBA but to transfer. It looks bad.

 

[Sherman20]

I disagree. Cole and Benny are replacements for Q and AG. Jimmy Jr is gonna be the replacement for Braswell. What I think is a bit ridiculous is you saying JB acted selfishly and not in the best interest of the team by not waiting on Q to decide about the draft. That’s a load of BS. He made the best decision for SU. You just can’t wait around and hope Q decides to come back. If he ends up going pro we are left with a major hole at forward. By doing what we did we now have a very good forward group which should be a major strength. If we wait until the draft deadline there is no chance Swider is still around. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

You don’t think we’re gonna have a major lack of athleticism at forward with Cole and Jimmy? If Benny is a stud, that changes the equation because he’s very athletic. But if Cole and Junior are starters or play the majority of minutes, we could have a Notre Dame level defense, which will put us in the middle of the pack in the ACC yet again. Btw, I liked the Swider pickup because we needed someone to replace Braswell and Newton.

 

[rrlbees]

See, I disagree with you here. We did not have to bring in Jimmy Jr. or could have held off til Q decided (it already seems like he’s leaning towards returning to college!). Jr. is just not going to be as good as Quincy, so it would have been worth it to wait for Q to decide. Cole and Benny are basically Braswell and Griff replacements. JB did what was best for him and his self interest to coach both his sons in one last hurrah (which it’s fair to argue he deserves after 45 years). At the very least, JB could have told Quincy, if you want to return, you’ll get 35mpg at SF and I’ll move Jimmy to center or only play him sparingly if need be, and run Benny and Cole at the other forward spot.

so what do you do when it’s July and Q decides to stay in the draft and we didn’t bring in Jimmy? Hope someone’s available in July after others have started classes in June and others are preparing to go to their campus in august? JB did what was in the best interest of his team, not himself.

 

[rrlbees]

I agree with all this. JB manipulated the situation so he could coach his two sons one last year. Maybe he deserves that. But either way, I think we’re gonna look at Quincy killing it next year at Illinois or Oregon and wish we had held onto him over one dimensional forwards like Cole and Jimmy. We better hope Benny is a stud or the forward positions will be a weakness, especially with defense and rebounding.

he manipulated the situation so he could coach his own sons. Wow.

 

[Sherman20]

In fairness Jesse developing, BS if healthy and Frank combined with Benny make up a replacement for Q and then hopefully some on top of that given the benefit of a true center.

I agree that having two real centers who are both solid and improving (if Sid’s knees stay healthy) could change my outlook. If JB actually plays both of them there the majority of the time instead of going with 3 forwards. I’m bullish on that aspect of the team being a strong suit, if we actually have two healthy centers.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Pretty sure Benny is the highest rated recruit we have had since Donte Greene and fans are either not talking about him or posting like he’s just another guy when bringing up the forwards. Weird.

 

[rrlbees]

It’s been said over and over that the 3 and 4 positions are interchangeable at SU especially in defense, so what you say about him wanting to play the 3 more doesn’t really make sense. And Quincy and his camp know that anywhere he goes he’s going to be asked to play both inside AND outside like he was last season at Syracuse. No school is gonna just let him hang out on the perimeter and shoot 3s. Now if he improves his dribble significantly in the off-season, that changes the equation. But he’d simply be more versatile and valuable overall and def the focus of the offense here. But that doesn’t hinge on where he goes to college or his coaches. That hinges on Quincy himself and whether or not he can improve that aspect of his game.

yes, the 3 and the 4 are the same on defense but not offense. Q wants to be on the wing, not inside. So if you have Q, Benny, swider, and Jimmy, or only 3 of them, who are you playing at the 4 on offense?

 

[Chip]

he manipulated the situation so he could coach his own sons. Wow.

Just wait until he coaches 10 or 11 more years so one of his sons can take the head coaching job at the same age he was when he got the job.

 

[Sherman20]

he manipulated the situation so he could coach his own sons. Wow.

Ok, fine, bees, “manipulate” is too incendiary of a word and I shouldn’t have used it. But you don’t think he wanted the chance to coach both of his sons and worked to bring Junior aboard? That means he had to make a calculated decision that Junior coming aboard could lead to Quincy bolting. And I’m not sure I agree that was a good calculation.

 

[Sherman20]

Pretty sure Benny is the highest rated recruit we have had since Donte Greene and fans are either not talking about him or posting like he’s just another guy when bringing up the forwards. Weird.

FTR, I think Benny will be great! But he’s a freshman so who knows how quickly he will adjust to the college game. That’s always an open question unless you’re a top 10-20 kid. Guards tend to transition more easily. Jerami Grant was a top 50 kid and didn’t play a ton as a freshman.

 

[orangeinnyc]

You don’t think we’re gonna have a major lack of athleticism at forward with Cole and Jimmy? If Benny is a stud, that changes the equation because he’s very athletic. But if Cole and Junior are starters or play the majority of minutes, we could have a Notre Dame level defense, which will put us in the middle of the pack in the ACC yet again. Btw, I liked the Swider pickup because we needed someone to replace Braswell and Newton.

I think the lack of athleticism is being over blown as well as the idea we are gonna be terrible on D. I think having a real center will help tremendously not only on D but rebounding as well. Benny is an elite level athlete and cole/jimmy are athletic enough IMO. They are also both fairly tall and seem to have high bball IQs. Maybe if we were playing man D we would look like ND but not playing our zone. The zone is going to help in that regard. If they can learn it quick enough and all it’s quirks I think we will be just as good as last year with the potential to be even better due to having a true center. I’m pretty bullish on next years team, I think it really hinges on JG improving and Symir being able to back him up adequately and provide good mins of JG isn’t playing well. I also think if Jesse and Frank (specifically Jesse with the way he came on at the end of last year) make the expected improvement jump over the summer and BS can be somewhat healthy the 5 spot could be a strength for us.

 

[Sherman20]

yes, the 3 and the 4 are the same on defense but not offense. Q wants to be on the wing, not inside. So if you have Q, Benny, swider, and Jimmy, or only 3 of them, who are you playing at the 4 on offense?

Sigh. You didn’t engage with the rest of my post. My point was that no coach is just going to let him hang out the perimeter and his camp knows that, so I don’t agree with the premise that he wants to play the 3 over the 4 on offense (btw, those roles aren’t so cut and dried anyways). For most of this season he operated both outside and inside in a post-up game when he got mismatches and space. I’ve said before that no other college coach will utilize Quincy in a better way than JB, so I don’t know why you’re arguing with me on this.

 

[Cusefan0307]

FTR, I think Benny will be great! But he’s a freshman so who knows how quickly he will adjust to the college game. That’s always an open question unless you’re a top 10-20 kid. Guards tend to transition more easily. Jerami Grant was a top 50 kid and didn’t play a ton as a freshman.

uhhhh, who did Jerami Grant have in front of him?

 

[djcon57]

uhhhh, who did Jerami Grant have in front of him?

Southerland

 

[Sherman20]

I think the lack of athleticism is being over blown as well as the idea we are gonna be terrible on D. I think having a real center will help tremendously not only on D but rebounding as well. Benny is an elite level athlete and cole/jimmy are athletic enough IMO. They are also both fairly tall and seem to have high bball IQs. Maybe if we were playing man D we would look like ND but not playing our zone. The zone is going to help in that regard. If they can learn it quick enough and all it’s quirks I think we will be just as good as last year with the potential to be even better due to having a true center. I’m pretty bullish on next years team, I think it really hinges on JG improving and Symir being able to back him up adequately and provide good mins of JG isn’t playing well. I also think if Jesse and Frank (specifically Jesse with the way he came on at the end of last year) make the expected improvement jump over the summer and BS can be somewhat healthy the 5 spot could be a strength for us.

I hope you’re right. And I agree that having two healthy and quality centers could really boost the defense, and I’m hopeful that’ll be the case. But losing Kadary is gonna hurt at the top of the zone.

One thing I’ll add: I don’t want to just avoid being terrible on defense. We need to improve in that area significantly. If we want to be a top 4-5 ACC team, we really need to get back into the top 50 defensive ratings on KenPom (better yet top 30). I already expect us to be a top 25-30 team in KenPom offensive efficiency, like we’ve been the past two seasons.

 

[Sherman20]

uhhhh, who did Jerami Grant have in front of him?

Southerland and Fair. And he did play a key role but wasn’t ready for a ton of minutes or to have a big impact on offense. Grant really started to break out as a sophomore and have a bigger offensive role. It’ll help that Benny is probably gonna be a much better shooter than Grant was in college. If Benny can have the same impact that Grant had as a sophomore, I’d be thrilled.

 

[orangeinnyc]

I hope you’re right. And I agree that having two healthy and quality centers could really boost the defense. But losing Kadary is gonna hurt at the top of the zone.

One thing I’ll add: I don’t want to just avoid being terrible on defense. We need to improve in that area significantly. If we want to be a top 4-5 ACC team, we really need to get back into the top 50 defensive ratings on KenPom (better yet top 30). I already expect us to be a top 25-30 team in KenPom offensive efficiency, like we’ve been the past two seasons.

I do agree what you said about Kadary. He is the only guy who transferred who I thought was a huge loss, with him he makes us elite but it’s been talked about enough and no use in crying over spilled milk so I won’t go further on that.

I also agree our D needs to improve to that level if we want to have a great year. Again I think the center spot will help the rest of the D/rebounding a lot but all of the guys need to make the necessary improvements this off season. If they do and our D matches our O I think we will be a really tough team. The staff seems to think so as well due to the way they are scheduling.

 

[rrlbees]

Ok, fine, bees, “manipulate” is too incendiary of a word and I shouldn’t have used it. But you don’t think he wanted the chance to coach both of his sons and worked to bring Junior aboard? That means he had to make a calculated decision that Junior coming aboard could lead to Quincy bolting. And I’m not sure I agree that was a good calculation.

I have no doubt he wanted to coach both his kids if they could play at that level. Which coach/dad wouldn’t? Unless a dad just didn’t want the scrutiny which is understandable. You’re right, it was the manipulate word that jumped out at me. JB sure did a lot of pumping up Q by saying he could be an AA if he really wanted him out ao Jimmy could come in. I don’t buy that.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Southerland and Fair. And he did play a key role but wasn’t ready for a ton of minutes or to have a big impact on offense. Grant really started to break out as a sophomore and have a bigger offensive role. It’ll help that Benny is probably gonna be a much better shooter than Grant was in college. If Benny can have the same impact that Grant had as a sophomore, I’d be thrilled.

I mean Benny is ranked higher than Grant was and actually can shoot. Shooting held Jerami back here and why people were up in arms when he declared.

The lack of production with freshman forwards really doesn’t jive with our past history. If they didn’t produce it was usually because they were blocked by a veteran.

 

[miamicuse]

Also, it is entirely possible back when Q announced he was entering the draft he was 90% sure he was done with school and communicated that to staff, and by May after some reality checks he is thinking 50/50, and now wants an insurance policy of going back to school. Nobody's fault.

 

[rrlbees]

Sigh. You didn’t engage with the rest of my post. My point was that no coach is just going to let him hang out the perimeter and his camp knows that, so I don’t agree with the premise that he wants to play the 3 over the 4 on offense (btw, those roles aren’t so cut and dried anyways). For most of this season he operated both outside and inside in a post-up game when he got mismatches and space. I’ve said before that no other college coach will utilize Quincy in a better way than JB, so I don’t know why you’re arguing with me on this.

he didn’t really operate as a 3 and a 4 or a wing and inside player. He was a 4 who was allowed to pop outside and take 3’s. To the play the wing is more than just taking some 3’s. He probably knows he’s not getting to the nba as a 4 so he wants to develop his wing skills.

 

[rrlbees]

I mean Benny is ranked higher than Grant was and actually can shoot. Shooting held Jerami back here and why people were up in arms when he declared.

The lack of production with freshman forwards really doesn’t jive with our past history. If they didn’t produce it was usually because they were blocked by a veteran.

I always viewed grant as more of an athlete than a b-ball player when he first got here. Kudos to him for developing his skills while at SU and in the nba.

 

[Sherman20]

I have no doubt he wanted to coach both his kids if they could play at that level. Which coach/dad wouldn’t? Unless a dad just didn’t want the scrutiny which is understandable. You’re right, it was the manipulate word that jumped out at me. JB sure did a lot of pumping up Q by saying he could be an AA if he really wanted him out ao Jimmy could come in. I don’t buy that.

I understand JB wanting to coach both his sons. It’s a great opportunity and a great story. But I guess I’m not entirely on board with the calculation, if it led to pushing Q out the door. I know you and dasher keep saying it was prompted by the date change in when kids had to declare if they were staying in the NBA draft or not (from May to July). But it feels like that’s not what’s going on here, seeing how Quincy suddenly seems to be in hot pursuit of a college transfer over pursuing the NBA draft option. If he was actually pursuing a pro career, I don’t think these P5 colleges would get involved until he really made a decision. Quincy’s decision feels like a rejection of Syracuse (or maybe JB’s coaching style). I also worry that it comes down to a failure of communication by our staff (mostly JB) about Q’s role for next season.