R.I.P. Knicks

[longislandcuse]

Reggie Miller calling Carmelo fat as the game is ending was funny I will admit.

The injury excuse will only go too far, the NBA is a "SUPERSTARS" league and Carmelo's supporting cast is "good enough" to NOT be an 8 seed and NOT go out in Rd 1. It's not about losing tonight or in this series, that was a given. The Knicks problem is a real "SUPERSTAR" wouldn't have had their team in this position to begin with.

Blame D'Antoni, blame the injuries, blame Amare being dumb, people can pass the blame around. Problem with the Knicks is their fatal flaw going forward is that their so-called SUPERSTAR is not really a SUPERSTAR in the NBA! Yes he can score at will at almost anytime, but that doesn't make you a superstar. Carrying your team on your back to victories when need be and being a leader of men. That is what makes you a SUPERSTAR! Melo lacks in all areas. He did in Denver and has in NY and it won't change anytime soon. Melo is a "second banana" in the NBA, he ain't a lead dog!

And who are these lead dogs?

 

[tep624]

The frontline defensive presence off the bench will be Jeffries. The backup pg very well could be Jonny Flynn or some like him. Ive seen Flynn mentioned on a couple Knick websites when talking about offseason moves. I want to want to keep JR and Novak but at this point I could care less if they walk.

Jeffries is effective in that role but I question his durability. I want someone reliable. I'd like to see Novak back, I think he's a legit 3 point specialist and every team needs one.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Reggie Miller calling Carmelo fat as the game is ending was funny I will admit.

The injury excuse will only go too far, the NBA is a "SUPERSTARS" league and Carmelo's supporting cast is "good enough" to NOT be an 8 seed and NOT go out in Rd 1. It's not about losing tonight or in this series, that was a given. The Knicks problem is a real "SUPERSTAR" wouldn't have had their team in this position to begin with.

Blame D'Antoni, blame the injuries, blame Amare being dumb, people can pass the blame around. Problem with the Knicks is their fatal flaw going forward is that their so-called SUPERSTAR is not really a SUPERSTAR in the NBA! Yes he can score at will at almost anytime, but that doesn't make you a superstar. Carrying your team on your back to victories when need be and being a leader of men. That is what makes you a SUPERSTAR! Melo lacks in all areas. He did in Denver and has in NY and it won't change anytime soon. Melo is a "second banana" in the NBA, he ain't a lead dog!

 

[Stern]

And who are these lead dogs?

Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Dirk, Pierce, Duncan (in his prime), Rose, Durant...should I keep going?

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Reggie Miller calling Carmelo fat as the game is ending was funny I will admit.

The injury excuse will only go too far, the NBA is a "SUPERSTARS" league and Carmelo's supporting cast is "good enough" to NOT be an 8 seed and NOT go out in Rd 1. It's not about losing tonight or in this series, that was a given. The Knicks problem is a real "SUPERSTAR" wouldn't have had their team in this position to begin with.

Blame D'Antoni, blame the injuries, blame Amare being dumb, people can pass the blame around. Problem with the Knicks is their fatal flaw going forward is that their so-called SUPERSTAR is not really a SUPERSTAR in the NBA! Yes he can score at will at almost anytime, but that doesn't make you a superstar. Carrying your team on your back to victories when need be and being a leader of men. That is what makes you a SUPERSTAR! Melo lacks in all areas. He did in Denver and has in NY and it won't change anytime soon. Melo is a "second banana" in the NBA, he ain't a lead dog!

That is kind of harsh. Melo has been terrific in the playoffs... he's just never gonna be a guy who makes others better. He wants to score...thats it. He's a 2nd tier superstar and if he could find a way to hitch his wagon to a real LEADER like a Chris Paul...then he might be on to something. Shacking up with Amare was just silly.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

There is a pretty funny tweet making waves right now though:

RT @BlkSportsOnline: Everyone knows Lebron needs to get a ring, but Melo can't even get to Jacob the Jeweler to get sized, that is a problem

 

[longislandcuse]

Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Dirk, Pierce, Duncan (in his prime), Rose, Durant...should I keep going?

And all those players have ridiculous talent around them and LBJ, Rose and Durant havent won anything yet. Wade is not a leader of men bla bla bla, they were actually talking on TNT pregame about how Wade doesnt really make the others around him better. Wade is in the same second tier of star as Melo. Dirk had a really good TEAM around him last year and that better be the only year your talking about with friggin Dirk Nowitzki. PP didnt win a damn thing until he got Garnett and Allen. Rose hasnt done anything and is slowly developing the playoff choke tag like LBJ. Why dont we give Melo a year when he has a chance before we judge him? Do you really think you could take one of those guys, put them on this and last years Knick teams and beat Miami/Boston?

 

[Upstate]

I hate the blame on Carmelo. He takes 31 shots, shoots 49%, scores 35, that's not a bad night at all, especially with 8 boards. People will complain he took so many shots, but Kobe goes 14-32 and no one says anything. Granted, Melo needs to get to the line better since becoming a Knick; it seems as if he shot so many more FTs as a Nugget. The supporting cast really needs an improvement. Amare isn't the Amare everyone remembers, Landry Fields shouldn't even be getting regular minutes on a playoff team. Hopefully Bibby and Davis never play for the Knicks again. Novak should stay, but he's such a liability if he isn't shooting a 3. Smith is an anomaly every game, and maybe the Knicks just need consistent players. There are too many things that stick out and with a good draft they can pick up some nice pieces. It's a shame Shump went down, he's a terrific defender.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Melo mad about 7 shots tonight where I said, "bad shot......YES!". I don't know how he made some of those circus shots. Way too many jumpers though. He never seemed to want to take Lebron to the hole.

 

[Stern]

And all those players have ridiculous talent around them and LBJ, Rose and Durant havent won anything yet. Wade is not a leader of men bla bla bla, they were actually talking on TNT pregame about how Wade doesnt really make the others around him better. Wade is in the same second tier of star as Melo. Dirk had a really good TEAM around him last year and that better be the only year your talking about with friggin Dirk Nowitzki. PP didnt win a damn thing until he got Garnett and Allen. Rose hasnt done anything and is slowly developing the playoff choke tag like LBJ. Why dont we give Melo a year when he has a chance before we judge him? Do you really think you could take one of those guys, put them on this and last years Knick teams and beat Miami/Boston?

EXCUSES...EXCUSES...EXCUSES!! Melo doesn't have talent around him? What Chandler and Amare can't play? Please!

Lebron took a god awful Cavs team to an NBA finals. WADE WON THE HEAT A CHAMPIONSHIP ALREADY!! BY HIMSELF! He carried an old Shaq but that team was nothing special.

Give Melo a year? He has been in the NBA almost a decade! Drop the SU pom-pom's and come back to reality son. Melo ain't an NBA Superstar! Nothing but SU-Homer excuses!

 

[longislandcuse]

EXCUSES...EXCUSES...EXCUSES!! Melo doesn't have talent around him? What Chandler and Amare can't play? Please!

Lebron took a god awful Cavs team to an NBA finals. WADE WON THE HEAT A CHAMPIONSHIP ALREADY!! BY HIMSELF! He carried an old Shaq but that team was nothing special.

Give Melo a year? He has been in the NBA almost a decade! Drop the SU pom-pom's and come back to reality son. Melo ain't an NBA Superstar! Nothing but SU-Homer excuses!

Actually did you watch Chandler play? And no Amare coudnt, he missed a game, was already injured and played 2 games with a mitten on. Oh yea, he also didnt play last year, you know the same year our starting pg also went down (Chauncey Billups).

Lol, yea LBJ beating the Magic then getting beat down by the Spurs was super impressive.

 

[DoctorBombay]

EXCUSES...EXCUSES...EXCUSES!! Melo doesn't have talent around him? What Chandler and Amare can't play? Please!

Lebron took a god awful Cavs team to an NBA finals. WADE WON THE HEAT A CHAMPIONSHIP ALREADY!! BY HIMSELF! He carried an old Shaq but that team was nothing special.

Give Melo a year? He has been in the NBA almost a decade! Drop the SU pom-pom's and come back to reality son. Melo ain't an NBA Superstar! Nothing but SU-Homer excuses!

 

[longislandcuse]

Jeffries is effective in that role but I question his durability. I want someone reliable. I'd like to see Novak back, I think he's a legit 3 point specialist and every team needs one.

I think im cool with Jeffries and Harrelson backing up Amare and Chandler. We need a decent backup sf, sg and pg. Lin, Shump, Melo, Amare, Chandler should be good enough to get us a top 3 seed but we need to make moves that are geared towards facing Miami which is why I dont know if I want Novak back.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

The biggest problem with the Knicks going forward is...they have a ton of guys who are kind of "specialized". So, you bring in Novak to spread the floor, but he can't defend and can't get his shot off against quick defenders. Chandler defends and rebounds, but has no offensive game. Melo scores a ton, but doesn't pass the ball. JR Smith is a streak shooter, nothing else. Jeremy Lin can't guard anyone. Shumpert is a good defender, but doesn't bring a lot of offense to the table. Jeffries is a tough defender, not much else. They need some of these guys to expand their game. If Melo averaged a few less points per game and a few more assists per game, it would be huge, IMO.

 

[mountaincuse]

Well Lin was "only" 85 percent - not sold on him so not sure how much he would have changed things but having him out there couldn't have hurt.

 

[longislandcuse]

Well Lin was "only" 85 percent - not sold on him so not sure how much he would have changed things but having him out there couldn't have hurt.

JR wouldnt have played so many minutes which maybe would have prevented him from sabotaging the second quarter :noidea:

 

[Stern]

Actually did you watch Chandler play? And no Amare coudnt, he missed a game, was already injured and played 2 games with a mitten on. Oh yea, he also didnt play last year, you know the same year our starting pg also went down (Chauncey Billups).

Excuses excuses! It's not about the last few games or the last series. It's about the last decade! Melo has had talent around him on his NBA teams and he never does anything with it.

 

[Knicks411]

Wade is in the same second tier of star as Melo.

Looks like I missed a lot here, so kjinda hard to catch up.

I would only say that Wade is a second tier superstar if the first tier consists of one guy. Wade is in my opinion the second or third best player in the league. He doesn't make his teammates better like Lebron does, but really, no other superstar does. Using assist % as a quick proxy, Wade has an assist percentage twice as high as Melo's. Wade is incredible, though I wonder how he ages since he relies so much on his athleticism. I don't want to beat the Melo horse, but I don't think he is in a class with Rose or Durant or Dirk. ( I think Pierce was mentioned, Melo is probably better than Pierce; I don't consider either of those guys in the class with Rose or Durant or Dirk. Melo sort of had the misfortune of going against Lebron in round 1 (btw, the Knicks weren't the 8th seed this year) in the sense that anyone being compared to Lebron in today's NBA is going to come out not looking all that great.

As for the Knicks, I doubt you see any big overhaul, unless they totally blow the team up and trade Melo, which I don't see happening. Amare is untradeable. No first round pick this year. They'll bring Lin back at the mid level, maybe Jefferies back at the vet minimum, but JR and Novak are both probably going to be priced out of the Knicks plans. They're going to need to find some shooting in the offseason.

Edit: Ha, Ian O'Connor is killing Lin for not playing last night after he said he was 85%, comparing it to Amare. I feel like an injured hand is different than a knee injury. Oh, and I agree Melo could stand to lose a few pounds.

 

[longislandcuse]

Looks like I missed a lot here, so kjinda hard to catch up.

I would only say that Wade is a second tier superstar if the first tier consists of one guy. Wade is in my opinion the second or third best player in the league. He doesn't make his teammates better like Lebron does, but really, no other superstar does. Using assist % as a quick proxy, Wade has an assist percentage twice as high as Melo's. Wade is incredible, though I wonder how he ages since he relies so much on his athleticism. I don't want to beat the Melo horse, but I don't think he is in a class with Rose or Durant or Dirk. ( I think Pierce was mentioned, Melo is probably better than Pierce; I don't consider either of those guys in the class with Rose or Durant or Dirk. Melo sort of had the misfortune of going against Lebron in round 1 (btw, the Knicks weren't the 8th seed this year) in the sense that anyone being compared to Lebron in today's NBA is going to come out not looking all that great.

As for the Knicks, I doubt you see any big overhaul, unless they totally blow the team up and trade Melo, which I don't see happening. Amare is untradeable. No first round pick this year. They'll bring Lin back at the mid level, maybe Jefferies back at the vet minimum, but JR and Novak are both probably going to be priced out of the Knicks plans. They're going to need to find some shooting in the offseason.

Edit: Ha, Ian O'Connor is killing Lin for not playing last night after he said he was 85%, comparing it to Amare. I feel like an injured hand is different than a knee injury. Oh, and I agree Melo could stand to lose a few pounds.

Melo definately needs to come into the season in shape. I think LBJ...Kobe...then a cluster which is hard to define. Durant, Wade, CP3, Rose, Howard. Then I guess you could go Melo, Dirk etc. I think Melo is a top 10 player.

As for Lin, I think his handlers made him sit out and theyre probably right. If the series was 2-2 and he didnt come back when we had a real chance to advance I might be a little more questioning.

I honestly think Lin, Shump, Melo, Amare, Chandler gets us a top 4 seed at least next year but theyre going to have to make some serious tweaks with no cap space if they want to be able to take down Miami. Funny thing is we still have no idea what that team will look like. Lin injured, Amare injured, they barely played together. I would love PJax but am ok with Woodson. If it was me, everyone but Melo is movable for D-Will or Howard and Steve Nash should be a target if no major moves are made.

 

[Knicks411]

Melo definately needs to come into the season in shape. I think LBJ...Kobe...then a cluster which is hard to define. Durant, Wade, CP3, Rose, Howard. Then I guess you could go Melo, Dirk etc. I think Melo is a top 10 player.

There is definitely a cluster for sure after Lebron. I don't see Kobe quite that high anymore. I kinda had Dwight as the #2, but maybe he deserves to be downgraded after his effort this year. Melo, on the whole, had a bad season. (52.5 true shooting). Certainly lots of extenuating circumstances. I don't think he would be in my top 10.

Btw, Andrew Bynum is probably knocking on the door; I feel like whenever I see him play he looks amazing.

I honestly think Lin, Shump, Melo, Amare, Chandler gets us a top 4 seed at least next year but theyre going to have to make some serious tweaks with no cap space if they want to be able to take down Miami. Funny thing is we still have no idea what that team will look like. Lin injured, Amare injured, they barely played together. I would love PJax but am ok with Woodson. If it was me, everyone but Melo is movable for D-Will or Howard and Steve Nash should be a target if no major moves are made.

The way I see the coaching situation, unless you can get PJ you may as well bring Woodson back. We don't know when Shump is gonna be back. I think the Knicks SHOULD be a top 4 seed next year (at some point Boston has to get old, right?) but ,ost of the bench could turn over, so I guess I'll need to wait until I see the roster. I don't see Nash taking the $2 million to come play here, so I assume he is out of play.

 

[TinyManInside]

The Knicks always field an incomplete team - sometimes it's injuries, sometimes it's just general franchise incompetence, but regardless they always seem to have major holes in their rotations.

It has been hard on Carmelo because he has had to force a lot of shots - but then again his game hasn't changed much at all over the entire time he's been in the league. Melo is a great, great scorer, there is no question... some of the shots he hit last night were ridiculous - but at the same point I think 'great scorer' is really the beginning and the end of the conversation. I just don't see how he would work with a collection other very good players for a full NBA season.

IMO, the one thing that keeps him from being truly elite is that if his offensive move is cut off, he becomes a total ball stop. Literally the offense grinds to a dead halt and has to be completely reset. You rarely see him 'play through' a move that doesn't work but turn it into an assist or positive play for the team. When you contrast that with LeBron - the defense can cut off his initial offensive move, but he can 'play through' to completion with an assist or ball reversal that keeps the floor spread and balanced. I think it is sort of a catch-22 with Carmelo because you would take away a lot of his positive attributes if you ask him to subjugate his game for a more balanced team - I think to be an effective scorer he really needs high volume touches, but I'm not sure you can win championships that way. Just seems odd to me because I thought his floor game at SU was pretty incredible and it doesn't really seem the same in the NBA.

Mason

 

[longislandcuse]

There is definitely a cluster for sure after Lebron. I don't see Kobe quite that high anymore. I kinda had Dwight as the #2, but maybe he deserves to be downgraded after his effort this year. Melo, on the whole, had a bad season. (52.5 true shooting). Certainly lots of extenuating circumstances. I don't think he would be in my top 10.

Btw, Andrew Bynum is probably knocking on the door; I feel like whenever I see him play he looks amazing.



The way I see the coaching situation, unless you can get PJ you may as well bring Woodson back. We don't know when Shump is gonna be back. I think the Knicks SHOULD be a top 4 seed next year (at some point Boston has to get old, right?) but ,ost of the bench could turn over, so I guess I'll need to wait until I see the roster. I don't see Nash taking the $2 million to come play here, so I assume he is out of play.

Bynum is odd, I cant figure out what I think of him. Im sure somehow Miami will figure out a way to get Nash if they dont win this year.

 

[TinyManInside]

Going out like pu$$ies.

Miami just infinately better than us with no backcourt (Lin/Shump) and a banged up Amare.

A big What goes out to Tyson Chandler for doing absolutely nothing in this series.

Landry Fields is barely a D-League player right now.

JR Smith and Steve Novak just lost a ton of money.

/rant

This game was disappointing.

The Knicks were totally overmatched with the injuries (although I think they'd still be overmatched even if they were 100% healthy), but the main thing that struck me was that they looked like a poorly coached team IMO.

 

[SWC75]

I'd just like to see what the Knicks can do with a normal pre-season, a normal schedule and no more than normal injuries. I can't believe so many talented professional players with a good coach and time to work together can't come up with a way of playing that utilizes all their talents.

 

[longislandcuse]

The Knicks were totally overmatched with the injuries (although I think they'd still be overmatched even if they were 100% healthy), but the main thing that struck me was that they looked like a poorly coached team IMO.

Woodson realllyyyyyyyyyyyyy did not coach well. He didnt have much to work with though. His dedication to JR is pretty deep lol.