Rank your top 10 players of the JB Era.

[Alsacs]

Agree - I thought one would manage to get on here, but it wasn't even close when I was looking at numbers. Again, my longevity bias skewed things for sure. But even a very good player like Wesley Johnson...how could I possibly swap out any of my 11 for him? And all those other guys are so much worse than everyone on the list.

Wes was BE POY.
Had a great year but for a 1 year guy to get on he needs a NC or be a special talent.
Wes left because of age.
Wes 2010 season was special though.

 

[l'orange]

I am not familiar with SU Basketball before the mid-80s so my list is going to skew towards more recent players

1. Coleman
2. Owens
3. Douglas
4. Wallace
5. Pearl
6. Anthony
7. Moten
8. Warrick
9. Johnson (Wes)
10. Jardine
    --
11. Thompson
12. Devendorf
13. Seikley
14. Waiters
15. Carter-Williams
    
16. McNamara
17. Hart
18. Fair
19. Flynn
    
20. Christmas
    --
21. Nichols
    
22. Gbinje
23. Rautins
24. Onuaku
25. Jackson (Rick)
26. Joseph (Kris)
    
27. Triche (Brandon)
28. Southerland
29. Fab Melo
    
30. Pace

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I wouldn't put MCW in the top 12.

I'm heavily weighting the FF in MCW's favor.

 

[RF2044]

I am not familiar with SU Basketball before the mid-80s so my list is going to skew towards more recent players

1. Coleman
2. Owens
3. Douglas
4. Wallace
5. Pearl
6. Anthony
7. Moten
8. Warrick
9. Johnson (Wes)
10. Jardine
    --
11. Thompson
12. Devendorf
13. Seikley
14. Waiters
15. Carter-Williams
    
16. McNamara
17. Hart
18. Fair
19. Flynn
    
20. Christmas
    --
21. Nichols
    
22. Gbinje
23. Rautins
24. Onuaku
25. Jackson (Rick)
26. Joseph (Kris)
    
27. Triche (Brandon)
28. Southerland
29. Fab Melo
    
30. Pace

Very cool post, to put it out so far through 30 players.

One thing that surprises me looking at everybody's list is that none of them include Adrian Autry, who had about as good of a senior year as just about anybody we've ever had.

 

[OttoMets]

Wes was BE POY.
Had a great year but for a 1 year guy to get on he needs a NC or be a special talent.
Wes left because of age.
Wes 2010 season was special though.

It's difficult to compare eras, especially the early-entry era to pretty much the rest of the Boeheim tenure.

One interesting exercise helps put players into context: what would player X do if he were stuck in the position of player Y?

Wes Johnson, nice college player. But would he have made the 1989 team better if he played instead of Billy Owens? Would we beat Butler with Owens instead of Wes? Pretty easy answers to both of these.

This is where I believe McNamara drops away from the pack. Decent numbers, for sure. National championship, awesome. Getting stuck learning a new position for two years and growing to play it mostly well, very cool. But what if we substitute him for Douglas? What if Douglas gets to play with Devendorf, Nichols, Roberts, and Watkins? Heck, what if we sub McNamara for Greg Monroe in 1987? For Moten?

Fact is, any Syracuse guard who gets the green light to shoot 1,131 three-pointers is going to find 35% of them going through the hoop. That's not something special, it's just what happens at a school that has a lot of good players over the years. As a player, he was good. In the context of great Syracuse players, he's out of class.

 

[OttoMets]

Very cool post, to put it out so far through 30 players.

One thing that surprises me looking at everybody's list is that none of them include Adrian Autry, who had about as good of a senior year as just about anybody we've ever had.

His senior year was so good. Kind of shaky before that. I'd take the 1994 Autry of Michael Carter-Williams or Ennis any day of the week, but it's tough for him when Sherman and Pearl are two of the comps. Haven't looked carefully, but I would guess that forwards are over-represented on these lists, as they often are in our offenses. Can be difficult for points (other than the Big Two) or big men to crack the list.

 

[Waltdods]

It's difficult to compare eras, especially the early-entry era to pretty much the rest of the Boeheim tenure.

One interesting exercise helps put players into context: what would player X do if he were stuck in the position of player Y?

Wes Johnson, nice college player. But would he have made the 1989 team better if he played instead of Billy Owens? Would we beat Butler with Owens instead of Wes? Pretty easy answers to both of these.

I think Johnson is one of the more interesting players to get a handle on in Syracuse history. He is justifiably very well regarded, and I think generally seen as the star of that 09-10 team, which is obviously (and correctly) seen as one of the best and most enjoyable Syracuse squads.

But he was the beneficiary of being an absolute perfect fit for a perfectly constructed team (pre-AO fall). I think people lose sight of just how little he really had to do in that offense. He was playing at all times with four other guys who were capable of creating their own shot (albeit to varying degrees). He essentially never had to handle the ball - Rautins and Triche/Scoop were in the game at all times - and in fact it was KJ, not Wes, who played the traditional Boeheim role of forward press-breaker. Onauku and Jackson demanded attention in the paint at all times, meaning Wes was almost never doubled.

Another way of saying this - I think senior-year Nichols was a better player than junior Wes. One was unlucky enough to be on an awful team, the other on a historically good one. But Johnson always comes up in these discussions and Nichols never does.

 

[MadNY3]

1. Derrick Coleman -- pound for pound, the best player to don a Syracuse uniform in my lifetime
2. Carmelo Anthony -- one of the greatest scorers in NBA history, led us to our only title
3. Billy Owens -- injuries derailed his pro career, and his college career was marred by the final two games, but what an amazing talent
4. John Wallace -- developed into the best low post player in college basketball his final two seasons [at 6-7], and singlehandedly led us to the title game
5. Sherman Douglas -- this is bound to be controversial, given who is next on the list. But in my book, the General took the program that Pearl built to the next level
6. Pearl Washington -- put our program on the map, and gave us a bona fide superstar in the fledgling Big East conference. RIP Dwayne.
7. Rafael Addison -- terrific scorer, shooter
8. Stephen Thompson -- one of the top scorers in program history despite being 6-2 and congenitally incapable of shooting. Also a stud defender
9. Hakim Warrick -- skinny plan B who became one of the top players in program history, and had a nice NBA career
10. Lawrence Moten -- along with Wallace, program savior during a critical time in our history, and all time leading scorer

Honorable mention: Jonny Flynn, Wes Johnson, Rony Seikaly, Etan Thomas, Jason Hart, CJ Fair, Dion Waiters, Michael Carter-Williams, Louis Orr, Preston Shumpert, Gerry McNamara, Andrew White, Michael Gbinije

Only issue is with Raf. He disappeared his senior season. Ankle injury, maybe, but he was nearly a ghost the final two/three months of his career.

 

[Eric15]

One thing that surprises me looking at everybody's list is that none of them include Adrian Autry, who had about as good of a senior year as just about anybody we've ever had.

Great player and an excellent assistant coach, but he's a second-tier SU legend.

 

[Eric15]

I am not familiar with SU Basketball before the mid-80s so my list is going to skew towards more recent players

1. Coleman
2. Owens
3. Douglas
4. Wallace
5. Pearl
6. Anthony
7. Moten
8. Warrick
9. Johnson (Wes)
10. Jardine
    --
11. Thompson
12. Devendorf
13. Seikley
14. Waiters
15. Carter-Williams
    
16. McNamara
17. Hart
18. Fair
19. Flynn
    
20. Christmas
    --
21. Nichols
    
22. Gbinje
23. Rautins
24. Onuaku
25. Jackson (Rick)
26. Joseph (Kris)
    
27. Triche (Brandon)
28. Southerland
29. Fab Melo
    
30. Pace

Scoop and Devo ahead of GMac? To each their own and I know this is subjective, but I have to hear your rationale there.

 

[RF2044]

His senior year was so good. Kind of shaky before that. I'd take the 1994 Autry of Michael Carter-Williams or Ennis any day of the week, but it's tough for him when Sherman and Pearl are two of the comps. Haven't looked carefully, but I would guess that forwards are over-represented on these lists, as they often are in our offenses. Can be difficult for points (other than the Big Two) or big men to crack the list.

No argument. Autry was statistically "average" for his first three years, but a true impact player his senior year in a way that is difficult to measure by stats alone. He had a terrific senior year.

 

[OttoMets]

I think Johnson is one of the more interesting players to get a handle on in Syracuse history. He is justifiably very well regarded, and I think generally seen as the star of that 09-10 team, which is obviously (and correctly) seen as one of the best and most enjoyable Syracuse squads.

But he was the beneficiary of being an absolute perfect fit for a perfectly constructed team (pre-AO fall). I think people lose sight of just how little he really had to do in that offense. He was playing at all times with four other guys who were capable of creating their own shot (albeit to varying degrees). He essentially never had to handle the ball - Rautins and Triche/Scoop were in the game at all times - and in fact it was KJ, not Wes, who played the traditional Boeheim role of forward press-breaker. Onauku and Jackson demanded attention in the paint at all times, meaning Wes was almost never doubled.

Another way of saying this - I think senior-year Nichols was a better player than junior Wes. One was unlucky enough to be on an awful team, the other on a historically good one. But Johnson always comes up in these discussions and Nichols never does.

I also think that's another reason why there aren't more recent players on these rankings - none of those guys was a great player, but 7 or 8 of them were a perfect fit in creating a great team. Everyone fit well together, and no one had to play to his own weakness (think of C.J. Fair's senior year compared to what Wes was asked to do).

 

[Eric15]

Question for the thread: who would you put higher GMac or Scott McCorkle?

 

[OttoMets]

Question for the thread: who would you put higher GMac or Scott McCorkle?

I didn't consider role players in throwing together my rating system, but I can't think of any way that McCorkle would finish ahead of McNamara (OK, each would get the same number of points for longevity, though I might as well note that McCorkle missed a month due to injury while McNamara played through his). Production, contribution to winning teams, McNamara's on top. Talent, I think McNamara.

Now if we're talking about my idea of comparing players based on what each might have done for the other's team, I will argue to the death that McCorkle was similar to -- and better than -- Trevor Cooney.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not that it matters, but I wonder what McNamara's numbers would have been had he played with Edelin his entire career?

 

[Eric15]

I didn't consider role players in throwing together my rating system, but I can't think of any way that McCorkle would finish ahead of McNamara

My post was 100% sarcastic.

 

[OttoMets]

Not that it matters, but I wonder what McNamara's numbers would have been had he played with Edelin his entire career?

We'll never know, but my hunch: better.

If he'd had Edelin and someone could have gotten his ear and said "You know, maybe it'd be best to not take all those low-percentage shots, especially in traffic," it could've been a lot better. A little more like his sophomore season - 17-20 a year, hopefully improving his overall shooting percentage to something halfway respectable while getting more open looks and generally not being worn down by being the primary ball-handler. Also, I think Edelin would've meant 10+ wins over two years, which would've probably resulted in more tournament games and more chances for McNamara to get 20 points here and there. A Final Four and another deep run and he might've taken a shot at Moten's record.

But instead he became a point guard. And for some reason still took over 900 shots at a .360 clip in that time.

 

[OttoMets]

My post was 100% sarcastic.

Good thing I didn't answer the wrong way!

 

[Cusefan0307]

We'll never know, but my hunch: better.

If he'd had Edelin and someone could have gotten his ear and said "You know, maybe it'd be best to not take all those low-percentage shots, especially in traffic," it could've been a lot better. A little more like his sophomore season - 17-20 a year, hopefully improving his overall shooting percentage to something halfway respectable while getting more open looks and generally not being worn down by being the primary ball-handler. Also, I think Edelin would've meant 10+ wins over two years, which would've probably resulted in more tournament games and more chances for McNamara to get 20 points here and there. A Final Four and another deep run and he might've taken a shot at Moten's record.

But instead he became a point guard. And for some reason still took over 900 shots at a .360 clip in that time.

It really was too bad that Edelin had his issues. We were a FF contender in 04 and 05 had he stayed on the team and we never would be talking about the Vermont debacle.

 

[HOFCeluck]

1. Pearl
2. Melo
3. Coleman
4. Douglas
5 Owens
6 Wallace
7 Ronnie
8 Wes
9 Warrick
10 Celuck

 

[OttoMets]

It really was too bad that Edelin had his issues. We were a FF contender in 04 and 05 had he stayed on the team and we never would be talking about the Vermont debacle.

Yeah, I'm the same person who's always posting 'Hey, the Final Four's never a sure thing, too much weird stuff can happen," but you'd have to think we'd have stumbled into a Final Four at least once from 2004 to 2006. The Edelin thing combined the the slow development of Nichols (and maybe Nichols would've improved with a consistent point guard) to really hurt those teams. In hindsight, they were badly flawed. But having a good point guard would've solved a lot of problems.

 

[Melancer46]

I'm going to rank my guys starting with the Championship year (the year I went to my first game):

1. Carmelo - pretty obvious given the time period
2. Warrick - his 4 years outweigh the one great year of Wes
3. Wes Johnson - Only got one year of him, but he was one of the best players in the country
4. Gerry - 4 really good years, obviously a big part of the title team; probably the guy I think of most when I think of Syracuse
5. MCW - my personal favorite player since I began watching the team; as good a defender at the top of the zone as I've ever seen and a really gifted passer. I'll never forget the performance against Indiana
6. Devendorf - 4 good years; not much else to say
7. Fab - Only one good year out of him, but he was the best defensive player I've ever seen while being an underrated offensive player due to his hustle in transition and his DeAndre Jordan-esq offensive mindset; almost never tried to do too much
8. Rick Jackson - One good year, and one really great year.
9. Paul Harris - Weird player to judge; probably a disappointment, but was still an efficient scorer, amazing rebounder for his size, and a very disruptive defender
10. Dion Waiters - Had a good year for us; he was probably better than I'll admit. Still hated him though.

 

[Grbac]

1. Carmelo Anthony
2. Pearl Washington
3. Derrick Coleman
4. Dave Bing
5. John Wallace
6. Silent G
7. G Mac
8. MCW
9. Rak
10. Hakim Warrick

 

[HOFCeluck]

1. Carmelo Anthony
2. Pearl Washington
3. Derrick Coleman
4. Dave Bing
5. John Wallace
6. Silent G
7. G Mac
8. MCW
9. Rak
10. Hakim Warrick

Bing is a real loose definition of "JB Era."

 

[NECuse]

Posted this is a different thread last year. Still holds.

1. Coleman - Generational talent. Immediate impact from the moment he stepped on the court as a freshman. Considered "disappointing pro" though he averaged 16.5 and 9 (which proves what kind of player he actually was).
2. Pearl - Put Cuse on the map nationally. Impact on Big East and SU can't be overstated.
3. Douglas - Finished career as NCAA all-time assist leader and all time SU scoring leader.
4. Anthony - Hardware; tourney MOP as a freshman.
5. Bing - Before my time, but HOF carries signifcant weight.
6. Owens - No clue how anyone can dog him. One of most complete players in Syracuse history. 13/7/3 as a freshman with team that included Douglas, Thompson and Coleman. All-American and Big East POY as a junior with 23/11.6/3.3 and shot close to 40% from deep. Baller.
7. Seikaly - Developed from raw project to dominant big man. Owned Duane Schintzius and JR Reid ni '87 tournament with two huge (and crucial) performances. Finished career as 2nd all time rebounder and 4th leading scorer for the Orange.
8. Wallace - Huge commit when Syracuse was coming off of NCAA probation. Carried Cuse to 1997 NCAA finals. Pass to Cippola and game winner against UGA serve as two all time iconic Cuse moments. 22 and 9 as a senior ranks as one of best single years for player in Cuse history. "Starred" as Lonnie alongside former Cuse great, Jim Brown, in Spike Lee's immortal "He Got Game."
9. GMac - Six 3s in first half of National Champ game gave Cuse big breathing room to work with. Owned NYC in 2006 with greatest BE Title run in history (FOH with Kemba Walker). Two Time BE First Team player. Underrated. Onions.
10. Moten - Can't leave off all time BE Scoring Leader.