Ray Allen to the Heat

[realorange]

1-He won't have to work as hard to get his shot in Miami.
2-He won't have to play starter minutes----he'll be less suseptible to injury
3-He'll have a good chance to get a ring
4-He won't have the issues that apparently exist with Rondo and Ainge
5-Seems like a no brainer decision.

 

[Knicks411]

If this was the Lakers, Spurs, OKC, Chicago, etc I'd have no problem with it. But it just seems like a pathetic cop out at this point, the ultimate "well I can't beat them, mine as well join em"

I guess I don't see the difference between Miami and the other teams you mentioned, other than everyone hates them.

I think I said this before; most of the time the fans put a lot more stock into the rivalry stuff than the players do. Especially a guy like Ray Allen; he was a Celtic for 5 years. Not like he spent his whole career there.

 

[skurey]

lol at rondo being the best point guard in the game

 

[jdubs30]

I guess I don't see the difference between Miami and the other teams you mentioned, other than everyone hates them.

I think I said this before; most of the time the fans put a lot more stock into the rivalry stuff than the players do. Especially a guy like Ray Allen; he was a Celtic for 5 years. Not like he spent his whole career there.

I think mentally as a competitor and professional athlete, it'd be extremely tough to basically come crawling to the team that eliminated you the past 2 years because you want another ring and feel as though you can't get it unless you play with them.

 

[br801]

Yeah, not sure how i feel about ring chasing. It's one thing to do it in the NFL or MLB... the NBA is a different story

Explain why it's different in the NBA because that statement really makes no sense.

 

[PoppyHart]

Hello! You play to WIN the game.

There also seems to be a disconnect between the frequent situation where players demand trades to title contenders even when they are under contract, and the situation of an unrestricted free agent, who has put forth his labor and fulfilled all the requirements asked of him.

Once you've satisfied those contractual duties, imo go to the team that best suits you, whether the end game is playing time, winning, weather, proximity to family, etc... For Allen, winning appears to have carried the day, but I'd be surprised if it was the sole criterion.

 

[Knicks411]

Explain why it's different in the NBA because that statement really makes no sense.

Because the Heat only play in the NBA.

I think mentally as a competitor and professional athlete, it'd be extremely tough to basically come crawling to the team that eliminated you the past 2 years because you want another ring and feel as though you can't get it unless you play with them.

What do you think about Nash going to the Lakers? They were the biggest rival of the Suns (at least from the Phoenix side; I'm sure Lakers fans feel differently), and while they didn't eliminate them last year they did beat them in the West finals in 2010. (Not a gotcha question; serious question).

 

[PoppyHart]

Explain why it's different in the NBA because that statement really makes no sense.

I agree its a head scratcher, though I'd submit that there are no real odds on favorites in the NFL, and the non-guaranteed nature of contracts really hinders loyalty.

 

[44cuse]

Yeah, not sure how i feel about ring chasing. It's one thing to do it in the NFL or MLB... the NBA is a different story

How do you feel about wanting to win? Would you prefer a guy sit around and play for a lessor team to be loyal?

44cuse

 

[PoppyHart]

Because the Heat only play in the NBA.



What do you think about Nash going to the Lakers? They were the biggest rival of the Suns (at least from the Phoenix side; I'm sure Lakers fans feel differently), and while they didn't eliminate them last year they did beat them in the West finals in 2010. (Not a gotcha question; serious question).

Better yet, since there are so many Yankee fans here (including myself): Did you hate Wade Boggs for making the switch? Clemens?

 

[Knicks411]

How do you feel about wanting to win? Would you prefer a guy sit around and play for a lessor team to be loyal?

44cuse

Especially because we know teams are always loyal to their players. (though that is more taking the conversation in a different direction; but I love when players are called greedy if they leave a team for more money. As if the team wouldn't do anything they could to make their team better even if it meant cutting a long time player)

I feel like this all started with Lebron. It used to be good to want to win more than anything, but ever since he went to Miami, there are apparently different standards depending on who you are, how good you are, and what team you want to play for.

I know it's not the same, but could you imagine if people dissected every potential change of jobs you considered? I guess the main difference is I doubt any of us are as good at our jobs as Lebron James is, but still, it's kinda funny.

Edit: Do we think the rift between Allen and Ainge/Rondo is legit or just after the fact stuff? Because if true, even more reason for Allen to leave.

 

[longislandcuse]

Because the Heat only play in the NBA.



What do you think about Nash going to the Lakers? They were the biggest rival of the Suns (at least from the Phoenix side; I'm sure Lakers fans feel differently), and while they didn't eliminate them last year they did beat them in the West finals in 2010. (Not a gotcha question; serious question).

Noone views LAL as an unstoppable force that is coming off a Championship with 3 players in collusion to join together. Kobe definately takes the Phx stuff seriously so to him its a big deal but I dont know about anyone else involved.

 

[PoppyHart]

Noone views LAL as an unstoppable force that is coming off a Championship with 3 players in collusion to join together. Kobe definately takes the Phx stuff seriously so to him its a big deal but I dont know about anyone else involved.

Collusion implies fraud, deceit, or illegality. I don't think LBJ and Co.'s actions reached that level.

 

[Knicks411]

Noone views LAL as an unstoppable force that is coming off a Championship with 3 players in collusion to join together. Kobe definately takes the Phx stuff seriously so to him its a big deal but I dont know about anyone else involved.

Interesting how quickly Lebron went from a choker to a guy leading a team that is now an unstoppable force.

I think Miami is great but they are hardly unstoppable. The first 4 games in the OKC series were all very close. They're more likely to lose the title next year than win it. I go back and forth on the collusion thing; do you think it was planned from the very start? You hear they were talking about it in 08 at the Olympics. I'm sure they did, but I wonder when they all decided for sure. Like, if Cleveland wins the title in 2010 does Lebron say "scraw it, I'm staying"? There could be an awesome book written about the whole thing some day, when everyone is retired.

I think Kobe wants to win another ring so badly that he probably doesn't care about the Phoenix thing. (And this is when it's good to want to win a ring no matter what. I think; it's hard to keep it straight.)

 

[jdubs30]

Because the Heat only play in the NBA.



What do you think about Nash going to the Lakers? They were the biggest rival of the Suns (at least from the Phoenix side; I'm sure Lakers fans feel differently), and while they didn't eliminate them last year they did beat them in the West finals in 2010. (Not a gotcha question; serious question).

Nash doesn't have a title and once Amare left PHX they had no chance to win one. If he stayed in PHX his twlight years would have been on a lottery teams and he would have retired without any hardware.

We all will agree that the Heat are probably the favorite to win it all again; but with Johnson out in ATL, D12 unresolved in Orlando, DRose out for the year in Chicago, and the uncertain future of Iggy in Philly, you could argue that Boston could be #2 in the East again (Knicks might be there too; if I'm forgetting a team correct me). Boston brought back KG, added Terry, Jeff Green is back in the fold; they had a legit shot at one final run together, and they deserved that as the group that brought Boston Celtics basketball back.

In short;
Nash is 38 without a ring and on a team that destined to be in the lotto for the next few years
Allen is 36 on a top 4 team in the East who went to the ECF this past year and arguably got better in the offseason

He's going to have a reduced role in Miami too. Chalmers and Cole both look improved, so you'd have to imagine they'll get around 35-38mpg combined this year. DWade will get his at the 2. Miller/Battier at the 3.

He probably will get more PT in Miami, but not much more.

 

[br801]

Noone views LAL as an unstoppable force that is coming off a Championship with 3 players in collusion to join together. Kobe definately takes the Phx stuff seriously so to him its a big deal but I dont know about anyone else involved.

So now Miami, only a few weeks removed from having their backs to the wall against an inferior Celtic team, has achieved "unstoppable force" status? In the era of free agency, there is no such thing as an unstoppable force in professional sports. Miami will merely be favored to repeat, but much can happen to derail them next season.

 

[Knicks411]

We all will agree that the Heat are probably the favorite to win it all again; but with Johnson out in ATL, D12 unresolved in Orlando, DRose out for the year in Chicago, and the uncertain future of Iggy in Philly, you could argue that Boston could be #2 in the East again (Knicks might be there too; if I'm forgetting a team correct me). Boston brought back KG, added Terry, Jeff Green is back in the fold; they had a legit shot at one final run together, and they deserved that as the group that brought Boston Celtics basketball back.

I think I agree with most of this. Boston is so old but you can't count them out. I think Miami is clearly at the top of the east, and there seems to be a group of teams after them that could all be in the same general group. Boston could be 6, they could be 2, I wouldn't be surprised if there is much of a difference between those teams. (You forgot Indy, but I would just put them in that group as well).

But I disagree with your last sentence, unless I'm misinterpreting it. Allen didn't let anyone on Boston down. Every player deserves the right to do whatever they think is best for their career, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of players in the league would agree and don't begrudge Allen (or any other player, for that matter) for doing what he wants to do with his career. It his life. He doesn't owe anyone anything.

He's going to have a reduced role in Miami too. Chalmers and Cole both look improved, so you'd have to imagine they'll get around 35-38mpg combined this year. DWade will get his at the 2. Miller/Battier at the 3.

Yeah, I'm curious as to how the rotation will work. I'm assuming Allen comes off the bench for Miami; or is Lebron going to start at the 4? Miami is a much better fit for Allen; they have 2 guys who can command double teams and one of those guys happens to be one of the best passers on the planet. He's going to get so many open 3's next year it's going to be ridiculous.

 

[HOFCeluck]

. Boston brought back KG, added Terry, Jeff Green is back in the fold; they had a legit shot at one final run together, and they deserved that as the group that brought Boston Celtics basketball back.

He probably will get more PT in Miami, but not much more.

Yeah them lovable losers the Boston Celtics really DESERVE another run at it, what with a mere seventeen titles and no championships for all of five years.

 

[44cuse]

Especially because we know teams are always loyal to their players. (though that is more taking the conversation in a different direction; but I love when players are called greedy if they leave a team for more money. As if the team wouldn't do anything they could to make their team better even if it meant cutting a long time player)

I feel like this all started with Lebron. It used to be good to want to win more than anything, but ever since he went to Miami, there are apparently different standards depending on who you are, how good you are, and what team you want to play for.

I know it's not the same, but could you imagine if people dissected every potential change of jobs you considered? I guess the main difference is I doubt any of us are as good at our jobs as Lebron James is, but still, it's kinda funny.

Edit: Do we think the rift between Allen and Ainge/Rondo is legit or just after the fact stuff? Because if true, even more reason for Allen to leave.

So this will be short (for a couple different reasons), but great post and it deserves a longer response.

1. Agree across the board.
2. How many Yankee fans are there on this board?
3. The same people who hate LeBron are some of the same who love Texeira.
4. I think the Rondo stuff is real. I don't think he's the best PG in the NBA, but he is damn a damn good player. I don't know what he does (in terms of how the #'s map) and I still have a hard rationalizing his complete season impact/contribution...but I think I would want him. And that's a lot more than I can say about the other enigmas in the NBA. And to me, ainge and rondo won't get along because ainge is old school and rondo isn't (how's that for scientific).

44cuse

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I hate Jason Kidd for chasing a title in NY... bush league move and I no longer respect him.

 

[armory]

Explain why it's different in the NBA because that statement really makes no sense.

Uh, because one player can make a huge difference to an NBA team? not so much in other leagues? I thought it was pretty obvious.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

You can't get indignant when people think you're over the line for calling Allen a chump. Words mean things.

Everywhere but in the SCOTUS.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk 2

 

[HOFCeluck]

BTW what's the difference between Allen and KG joining PP and Lebron and Bosh joining D Wade?

 

[RF2044]

BTW what's the difference between Allen and KG joining PP and Lebron and Bosh joining D Wade?

You mean other than the fact that both KG and Allen were traded to the Celtics, whereas Lebron / Bosh went to Miami as free agents? Because yeah--other than that glaring difference, the situations were quite similar.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I never understood why anyone would get mad that good players who are also good friends would want to play together.

You would think Lebron, Bosh and Wade held the NBA by gunpoint. As if 3 good players never played on the same team before.

How many players other than Hakeem the Dream won NBA championships with no other stars on his team?