Class of 2018 RB/LB Joe Andreessen (NY)

[PhatOrange]

So we are no longer recruiting the late bloomer, under the radar types?

hopefully not.

 

[SWC75]

That makes two of us. Right now there are two threads on this forum that I am wondering how they got here and why posters are continuing to post to them.

I seem to have touched a nerve by suggesting that two guys I saw play in the state playoffs looked pretty good. The announcers doing those games were impressed with them and wondered out loud why they aren't getting recruited, so I did, too. They looked like low-hanging fruit to me, guys who must have bloomed late and would perhaps now be re-evaluated. Their coaches used their post game interviews to campaign for them and what they said seemed to make a lot of sense, although i understood that coaches are always going to praise their star players.

I rarely look at the recruiting board. I mostly just look at guys highlights once we signed them but I came here looking for information on the two guys I had seen. When I found none, I started this thread to see what people have to say about them. At first there was a sort of hopeful curiosity then something bordering on outrage.

One argument seems to be that because they played in New York State, their accomplishments were insignificant and that we needed players from other states where the competition was better. I pointed out that we've gotten good players from New York before and so have other schools. Mike Hart came from Class D and became Michigan's all time leading rusher, for example. This had no impact. One poster said that he had watched a a minute and a half of a 10 minute highlight film and it had been enough to convince him that Ward lacked ACC level athletic ability. I pointed out that the film seemed to be in sections and that the final couple of minutes featured the explosive runs he was looking for. Ward's run against Lancaster made the Sports Center Top Ten plays. But that's because Lancaster isn't any good- comically bad, in fact. Andreessen's highlight showed him beating CNS's Eric Pride, who is very quick and about 60 pounds lighter than Andreessen, to the corner and tackling him before he could make a gain. But he doesn't have ACC athletic ability, either. He's going to wind up at Clarkson, they said. The statements of their coaches were not just dismissed but produced angry retorts that they don't know their place and they had no right to say those things.

I think the key to all the anger is the statement that we should no longer be recruiting "under the radar" types or "late bloomers" because we need blue chip players to compete against the teams we are playing in the Atlantic Division of the ACC. That's why we've had so many disappointing losses. People want sure things, not projects. The problem with that is that all recruits are projects. None of them are sure things. These are kids in their mid-teens. Their ratings are snapshots of how good they are thought to be at a specific point in time. I would agree that if we get more 4 star recruits and fewer 2 star recruits, we will get better. That doesn't necessarily inform decisions to be made in specific cases.

The big point against Ward and Andreessen is that the very fact that they don't have scholarship offers is evidence that they might not be good as good as they looked to me. There can be other reasons why players don't get offers but those reasons would apply to whether SU should offer them as well. Babers and his coaches are surely aware of them: they certainly are now with their playoff performances. If they judge that they have or can get better players elsewhere, I will trust their judgement. As I said, that's nothing but good news. And if we get our running game going with players who clearly are ACC level talents, I won't even be thinking about Andreessen or Ward - or Fredericks. Everything will be just fine.

 

[SWC75]

The clip is funny it looks like a scene from the Waterboy (and not in a good way). Troy barely escaped New Rochelle and Newburgh. Really should've lost the New Rochelle game. My takeaway is that Lancaster isn't that good.

Nobody else made Lancaster looked like a scene from Waterboy.

 

[SWC75]

The stats of both committed running backs we have now are far better than these guys, and they play in far tougher football states against other D1 athletes, so yeah, think Dino is on top of it.

I looked it up.

Ward has 1,998 yards rushing this year and 32TDs. (Max Preps doesn't see to have his numbers: I took it from newspaper articles)

Dixon has 1,291 yards and 21 TDs.

Williams, who is listed as an "athlete" had 613 yards and 11TDs

Andreessen, who is a linebacker used as a running back only in certain situations, had 459 yards but score 15 touchdowns.

So I wouldn't say the guys we've already got had "far better" stats, at least as running backs.

 

[#FRANchise]

Watched 5 minutes of Ward's film and concluded that NYS high school defenses are laughable and that you're crazy to think he deserves a scholarship over Jawhar Jordan, seeing as they're the same type of player.

 

[TheCusian]

I seem to have touched a nerve by suggesting that two guys I saw play in the state playoffs looked pretty good. The announcers doing those games were impressed with them and wondered out loud why they aren't getting recruited, so I did, too. They looked like low-hanging fruit to me, guys who must have bloomed late and would perhaps now be re-evaluated. Their coaches used their post game interviews to campaign for them and what they said seemed to make a lot of sense, although i understood that coaches are always going to praise their star players.

I rarely look at the recruiting board. I mostly just look at guys highlights once we signed them but I came here looking for information on the two guys I had seen. When I found none, I started this thread to see what people have to say about them. At first there was a sort of hopeful curiosity then something bordering on outrage.

One argument seems to be that because they played in New York State, their accomplishments were insignificant and that we needed players from other states where the competition was better. I pointed out that we've gotten good players from New York before and so have other schools. Mike Hart came from Class D and became Michigan's all time leading rusher, for example. This had no impact. One poster said that he had watched a a minute and a half of a 10 minute highlight film and it had been enough to convince him that Ward lacked ACC level athletic ability. I pointed out that the film seemed to be in sections and that the final couple of minutes featured the explosive runs he was looking for. Ward's run against Lancaster made the Sports Center Top Ten plays. But that's because Lancaster isn't any good- comically bad, in fact. Andreessen's highlight showed him beating CNS's Eric Pride, who is very quick and about 60 pounds lighter than Andreessen, to the corner and tackling him before he could make a gain. But he doesn't have ACC athletic ability, either. He's going to wind up at Clarkson, they said. The statements of their coaches were not just dismissed but produced angry retorts that they don't know their place and they had no right to say those things.

I think the key to all the anger is the statement that we should no longer be recruiting "under the radar" types or "late bloomers" because we need blue chip players to compete against the teams we are playing in the Atlantic Division of the ACC. That's why we've had so many disappointing losses. People want sure things, not projects. The problem with that is that all recruits are projects. None of them are sure things. These are kids in their mid-teens. Their ratings are snapshots of how good they are thought to be at a specific point in time. I would agree that if we get more 4 star recruits and fewer 2 star recruits, we will get better. That doesn't necessarily inform decisions to be made in specific cases.

The big point against Ward and Andreessen is that the very fact that they don't have scholarship offers is evidence that they might not be good as good as they looked to me. There can be other reasons why players don't get offers but those reasons would apply to whether SU should offer them as well. Babers and his coaches are surely aware of them: they certainly are now with their playoff performances. If they judge that they have or can get better players elsewhere, I will trust their judgement. As I said, that's nothing but good news. And if we get our running game going with players who clearly are ACC level talents, I won't even be thinking about Andreessen or Ward - or Fredericks. Everything will be just fine.

They might have had a shot under Shafer. But the *if* we are taking a chance on a "under the radar type" or a "late bloomer" they will have the measurables the ACC demands. There are exceptions (small, but played vs the very best high school competition and produced). But we can't afford to have a roster of exceptions. That's what we have now, especially in our secondary.

The angry retorts about HS coaches is 100% valid. They shouldn't be complaining that any of there guys don't get looks here if they don't have other offers from lesser schools in the area. There are a lot of schools mining NYS - it says a lot that FCS schools aren't all over these guys.

Bottom line is that when you evaluate a kid to come to an ACC school, you look for measurables, fit, star ratings (did they get noticed by guys who get paid to notice), and maybe most importantly other offers. Think of it like a consensus. You might not believe DB can evaluate or that he and his staff might miss a kid. But it's really unlikely for all of those "gatekeepers" to miss.

If our running game doesn't click, I wouldn't blame it on missing two guys whom no-one is recruiting.

 

[TheCusian]

I looked it up.

Ward has 1,998 yards rushing this year and 32TDs. (Max Preps doesn't see to have his numbers: I took it from newspaper articles)

Dixon has 1,291 yards and 21 TDs.

Williams, who is listed as an "athlete" had 613 yards and 11TDs

Andreessen, who is a linebacker used as a running back only in certain situations, had 459 yards but score 15 touchdowns.

So I wouldn't say the guys we've already got had "far better" stats, at least as running backs.

That's like saying Villanova's RB (no idea, plucked at random) put up better stats so he's probably better than FSU's freshman RB. It's hard to overstate the difference between NY HS Football and FL HS Football.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Seriously, would you ever hear a Florida HS coach say that? “I know he doesn’t have an offer to play at Jax St or Florida A&M, but I can’t believe FSU hasn’t offered him?”

It’s really sad.

This thread should’ve ended right here.

Page 2, Post 27.