Reasons Why Boeheim Might Actually Thrive In This NEW ERA

[Ceerqqq]

Everything's been turned upside down, right? Total chaos. The Top Recruiting Programs will no longer be able to stockpile all the elite talent. One-and-done was bad enough for them. Now the rosters of the top programs are going to change dramatically from one year to the next due to the Transfer Portal (there will be exceptions to the rule, of course).

I, for one, feel encouraged by this new CB landscape as it seems to feed into Boeheim's greatest strengths as a coach while at the same time lessening the importance of his weaknesses.

Boeheim's one outstanding weakness as a Top Rank coach is his demonstrated inability to out-talk the Caliparis and the Pitinos of the world for The Elite talent they are able to regularly pull in. He has for quite some time pulled off his regular end-of-season successes by relying primarily on 2nd Tier Talent.

But the Transfer Portal is going to lessen Boeheim's disadvantage in this respect if he's able to pull in more and more of those Mike Gbinjis out there from one season to the next. The 'supply' of top talent that he's gonna have to work with in the New Era figures to be somewhat improved from now on...

Boeheim's greatest strength as a coach is his ability to produce highly-competitive teams at the end of the year on a regular basis, no matter what kind of talent he has to work with. The last seven years have been "down years" for Boeheim as far as recruiting has been concerned, but in spite of that, he's produce enviable success in the NCAAT and has developed quite a favorable reputation for having that kind of coaching ability.

(Of course, part of the reason he's so good at it is because he settles on a key rotation early & tries to give first his starting five all the PT they need to develop, and then his key 6-8 reserves after that. The success of this approach was demonstrated yet again this year.)

So ironically, while many of his detractors have been calling for his head again this year, the college basketball landscape has changed in a way that may very well work optimally in Jim Boeheim's favor as we go forward...

 

[NineOneSeven]

You are just on fire recently!

 

[Arangeman]

 

[jsshap]

Everything's been turned upside down, right? Total chaos. The Top Recruiting Programs will no longer be able to stockpile all the elite talent. One-and-done was bad enough for them. Now the rosters of the top programs are going to change dramatically from one year to the next due to the Transfer Portal (there will be exceptions to the rule, of course).

I, for one, feel encouraged by this new CB landscape as it seems to feed into Boeheim's greatest strengths as a coach while at the same time lessening the importance of his weaknesses.

Boeheim's one outstanding weakness as a Top Rank coach is his demonstrated inability to out-talk the Caliparis and the Pitinos of the world for The Elite talent they are able to regularly pull in. He has for quite some time pulled off his regular end-of-season successes by relying primarily on 2nd Tier Talent.

But the Transfer Portal is going to lessen Boeheim's disadvantage in this respect if he's able to pull in more and more of those Mike Gbinjis out there from one season to the next. The 'supply' of top talent that he's gonna have to work with in the New Era figures to be somewhat improved from now on...

Boeheim's greatest strength as a coach is his ability to produce highly-competitive teams at the end of the year on a regular basis, no matter what kind of talent he has to work with. The last seven years have been "down years" for Boeheim as far as recruiting has been concerned, but in spite of that, he's produce enviable success in the NCAAT and has developed quite a favorable reputation for having that kind of coaching ability.

(Of course, part of the reason he's so good at it is because he settles on a key rotation early & tries to give first his starting five all the PT they need to develop, and then his key 6-8 reserves after that. The success of this approach was demonstrated yet again this year.)

So ironically, while many of his detractors have been calling for his head again this year, the college basketball landscape has changed in a way that may very well work optimally in Jim Boeheim's favor as we go forward...

I love and appreciate the optimism, even with the silly parenthetical plug for the silly point of view that this year was validating for jb.

 

[FloridaFan]

The amount of spin in defense of boeheim is just mind boggling. How can one thread argue that the game should go back to the 90’s when boeheim was killer and the next thread is he will thrive in the new era

 

[OrangeDW]

Everything's been turned upside down, right? Total chaos. The Top Recruiting Programs will no longer be able to stockpile all the elite talent. One-and-done was bad enough for them. Now the rosters of the top programs are going to change dramatically from one year to the next due to the Transfer Portal (there will be exceptions to the rule, of course).

I, for one, feel encouraged by this new CB landscape as it seems to feed into Boeheim's greatest strengths as a coach while at the same time lessening the importance of his weaknesses.

Boeheim's one outstanding weakness as a Top Rank coach is his demonstrated inability to out-talk the Caliparis and the Pitinos of the world for The Elite talent they are able to regularly pull in. He has for quite some time pulled off his regular end-of-season successes by relying primarily on 2nd Tier Talent.

But the Transfer Portal is going to lessen Boeheim's disadvantage in this respect if he's able to pull in more and more of those Mike Gbinjis out there from one season to the next. The 'supply' of top talent that he's gonna have to work with in the New Era figures to be somewhat improved from now on...

Boeheim's greatest strength as a coach is his ability to produce highly-competitive teams at the end of the year on a regular basis, no matter what kind of talent he has to work with. The last seven years have been "down years" for Boeheim as far as recruiting has been concerned, but in spite of that, he's produce enviable success in the NCAAT and has developed quite a favorable reputation for having that kind of coaching ability.

(Of course, part of the reason he's so good at it is because he settles on a key rotation early & tries to give first his starting five all the PT they need to develop, and then his key 6-8 reserves after that. The success of this approach was demonstrated yet again this year.)

So ironically, while many of his detractors have been calling for his head again this year, the college basketball landscape has changed in a way that may very well work optimally in Jim Boeheim's favor as we go forward...

All that not playing a bench for most of the season accomplished this year was taking a sweet 16 level team and turning them into a bubble team 11 seed, and causing 3/4 of the team to leave.

 

[721Comstock]

Yeah - I'm not seeing it.

JB's thing is taking guys over 2-3-4 years and making them great in the zone.
And better than their recruiting rankings.
Sprinkling in a handful of impactful 1-2 years players as we can to up the talent level.

Wide open free agency isn't good for his system. Period.

And - he's not a grinder on the 'crooting trail anymore, so can he really get difference-maker talents to come to Cuse in this new paradigm?

I mean - it's looking like this time around we're getting Symir, maybe Cole, and Jimmy Jr.
Yay?

 

[dasher]

Everything's been turned upside down, right? Total chaos. The Top Recruiting Programs will no longer be able to stockpile all the elite talent. One-and-done was bad enough for them. Now the rosters of the top programs are going to change dramatically from one year to the next due to the Transfer Portal (there will be exceptions to the rule, of course).

I, for one, feel encouraged by this new CB landscape as it seems to feed into Boeheim's greatest strengths as a coach while at the same time lessening the importance of his weaknesses.

Boeheim's one outstanding weakness as a Top Rank coach is his demonstrated inability to out-talk the Caliparis and the Pitinos of the world for The Elite talent they are able to regularly pull in. He has for quite some time pulled off his regular end-of-season successes by relying primarily on 2nd Tier Talent.

But the Transfer Portal is going to lessen Boeheim's disadvantage in this respect if he's able to pull in more and more of those Mike Gbinjis out there from one season to the next. The 'supply' of top talent that he's gonna have to work with in the New Era figures to be somewhat improved from now on...

Boeheim's greatest strength as a coach is his ability to produce highly-competitive teams at the end of the year on a regular basis, no matter what kind of talent he has to work with. The last seven years have been "down years" for Boeheim as far as recruiting has been concerned, but in spite of that, he's produce enviable success in the NCAAT and has developed quite a favorable reputation for having that kind of coaching ability.

(Of course, part of the reason he's so good at it is because he settles on a key rotation early & tries to give first his starting five all the PT they need to develop, and then his key 6-8 reserves after that. The success of this approach was demonstrated yet again this year.)

So ironically, while many of his detractors have been calling for his head again this year, the college basketball landscape has changed in a way that may very well work optimally in Jim Boeheim's favor as we go forward...

So, we are going to outwork other coaches in the portal? Sorry, not seeing it. Jb can still coach. But his weaknesses are more apparent in this day and age. Kids don't take to being knocked in the media the way he does. They might be able to accept that if there was the carrot to go along with the stick. I saw the Zag players come off the floor the other night and every kid hugged Few. Other than Buddy, could you see one of our guys doing that? JB is cold. In the past, that didn't matter much. It does now.

 

[Ceerqqq]

I love and appreciate the optimism, even with the silly parenthetical plug for the silly point of view that this year was validating for jb.

I've explained the reasoning elsewhere, but since you either missed it or forgot it, here it is:

It should be abundantly obvious that Boeheim's #1 concern every season is being able to put five players on the court who--as a team--can beat the best five of those teams he'll face in the NCAAT. Those five will get all the PT that he believes they need to be able to become such a team at the end of the year.

Of course Boeheim & every other coach knows that they need key reserves that they'll turn to when someone's in foul trouble or being dominated at their position. Most years he can go 7 deep, other years 8 deep like this year, other years only 6. He wants to develop those 6-8 players optimally, but not at the expense of the starting five if they are making too many mistakes.

That's the problem. Sure, Boeheim knows that his 6-12 players would all benefit with some generous PT, but he'd have to be a coaching fool to sacrifice the performance/development of his starting five by doling out their PT to bench players because it would be good for the bench players if he did so.

So that's the big consideration. The inescapable trade-off. It's the reason why Boeheim--especially early in the season--is ALWAYS going to keep his starters in the game if the outcome is at all in doubt, if he believes they need it to improve as a unit, cuz he's thinking end-of-season performance.

That's why all coaches make their best guess at which 5-7 players have the ability to develop as a team over the course of a season to where they are hopefully 'unstoppable.' He wants them to get all the time, the repetitions, they need working together to where their team play is on an instinctive level (see Loyola Chicago) by the end of the season.

And yes, the 6-8 players also need some time playing with the starters if they've going to be at all helpful and not a detriment. So their PT is important too, but only if your starting five's development allows it.

This is why Boeheim had a good reason for not playing his reserves when his starting five was struggling to win games. They clearly had a lot to learn as a unit, and that means sufficient PT to get there.

At the same time that his reserves were not playing during this 'difficult time' for the team, they were nevertheless improving throughout the season during practice. That's the development that Boeheim was looking for from his reserves over the course of the season, that gained from practice.

From previous seasons, he's seen his less-experienced players learn a lot over the course of a season and most especially toward the end of the season. That is when he was expecting that they might be 'ready' to contribute without making serious in-game errors and without having handicapped the development of the starting five when they needed most of the PT to get better as a unit.

So why is it that the reserves are playing more now and making contributions to the team's success?

Quite plausibly, it is because the starting five have developed well enough (cuz they got the PT they needed earlier) for the reserves to be more effectively blended into the mix and because the reserves have improved enough in practice to where they are now ready to contribute.



So there's a reason why Boeheim's rotation critics are wrong in their belief that they possess a keen insight into coaching that has escaped JB. Playing a deeper bench earlier in the season at the expense of the starting five could very well have held back the development of the starting five, making the current run an impossibility.

Developing the bench in practice at the same time that the starters are ironing out all the mistakes that had been holding them back in actual games was clearly the reason why Boeheim wasn't playing the bench more earlier and it would account for the eventual outcome we've seen: superb team play and greater contributions from the bench (with fewer mistakes than they would have committed in games earlier, cuz they understand better how to execute Boeheim's Plan on both defense & offense.)

So yeah, when Boeheim said his players were not "ready" earlier, he was not saying that he didn't foresee them ever being ready down the road, which is what his critics seemed to just assume when they were getting themselves all worked up about the way JB was developing his team.

So yeah, from my understanding of the facts and Boeheim's approach to developing a team, this past season was indeed validation of his approach to developing his teams, in contrast to the mal-informed opinions that were being bounced around at mid-season...

 

[FloridaFan]

So like someone said. Why was sanctions an excuse if boeheim never needs more then 8 players

 

[Day2]

All recruiting is still being done over Zoom (and the like), correct? That should work in JB’s favor, if he doesn’t have to travel.

 

[007]

Always being the smartest guy in the room must get lonely sometimes...

 

[Sherman20]

So, we are going to outwork other coaches in the portal? Sorry, not seeing it. Jb can still coach. But his weaknesses are more apparent in this day and age. Kids don't take to being knocked in the media the way he does. They might be able to accept that if there was the carrot to go along with the stick. I saw the Zag players come off the floor the other night and every kid hugged Few. Other than Buddy, could you see one of our guys doing that? JB is cold. In the past, that didn't matter much. It does now.

Kenny Anderson’s mom: “That man is cold and so is the weather.” Not sure if that was apocryphal but it became a pretty legendary statement . Hop has talked about how JB softened up in his old age, and Scoop said in the Devo podcast that be hugged him after a game in Philly when he didn’t play much and they had a big blow up (said it was one of the reasons he decided to stay). But yeah, I think he’s regressed again these last few years as the team has struggled in the middle of the pack and not been top 4 in the conference and a top 15 team nationally.

 

[Ceerqqq]

So, we are going to outwork other coaches in the portal? Sorry, not seeing it. Jb can still coach. But his weaknesses are more apparent in this day and age. Kids don't take to being knocked in the media the way he does. They might be able to accept that if there was the carrot to go along with the stick. I saw the Zag players come off the floor the other night and every kid hugged Few. Other than Buddy, could you see one of our guys doing that? JB is cold. In the past, that didn't matter much. It does now.

I dunno bout that, Dasher.

Not saying he wouldn't benefit from backing off the Bad Cop role a good bit more (didn't I hear that Buddy's been advising him on this issue?)

But it seems like I heard you express this same concern some 25-30 years ago that this 'coaching habit' of Boeheim's would handicap his ability to win and recruit, but dang it, it never did end his career, did it?

What I'm saying is that it doesn't seem to be as big, as costly, a problem as you have always feared.

Maybe cuz he balances his Meanie side with another side that 'controls' it? Maybe because, while he may be 'cold', he apparently comes across as as someone who understands basketball and that's what a lot of recruits are ultimately looking for?

 

[Jasoncuse]

JB's teams have been best with guys who are either elite talents or who have developed over multiple years.

Constantly churning the roster and adding kids in the portal is not going to help us. We've seen pretty much every grad transfer or first year player struggle in the zone or take a significant amount of time to become competent. Transfer portal will only highlight that.

But the biggest issue has been, and will continue to be, the lack of talent. If JB isn't fighting tooth and nail in the portal for high end kids and we aren't getting more than 1 top 100 recruit each year or two, I'm not sure how we can get back to the level we used to occupy.

 

[rrlbees]

Kenny Anderson’s mom: “That man is cold and so is the weather.” Not sure if that was apocryphal but it became a pretty legendary statement . Hop has talked about how JB softened up in his old age, and Scoop said in the Devo podcast that be hugged him after a game in Philly when he didn’t play much and they had a big blow up (said it was one of the reasons he decided to stay). But yeah, I think he’s regressed again these last few years as the team has struggled in the middle of the pack and not been top 4 in the conference and a top 15 team nationally.

what did you want Anderson’s mom to say? GT bought me a house?

 

[HOFCeluck]

It's pretty well known that the older you get the more willing you are to grind day in and day out.

Also adapting to change is another strong point.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I can't decide if this thread has potential for greatness, or if it's great already.

 

[721Comstock]

I can't decide if this thread has potential for greatness, or if it's great already.

Make Boeheim Great Again!!!!

 

[Eric15]

It's pretty well known that the older you get the more willing you are to grind day in and day out.

Also adapting to change is another strong point.

"Remember: the waiter doesn't need to know your name."

 

[Ceerqqq]

JB's teams have been best with guys who are either elite talents or who have developed over multiple years.

Constantly churning the roster and adding kids in the portal is not going to help us. We've seen pretty much every grad transfer or first year player struggle in the zone or take a significant amount of time to become competent. Transfer portal will only highlight that.

But the biggest issue has been, and will continue to be, the lack of talent. If JB isn't fighting tooth and nail in the portal for high end kids and we aren't getting more than 1 top 100 recruit each year or two, I'm not sure how we can get back to the level we used to occupy.

Thanks for reminding me of the other reason why I think Boeheim's 'ready for this.' What is needed to succeed in the New Era is being able to develop some "not ready" 2nd Tier players-with-potential along with bringing in the occasional Elite Talent here and there.

Having developing players on your roster for multiple years gives you the experience you need that is crucial (so the only 'new' players in your line up are either experienced, or you're only bringing 1 or 2 talented studs into the starting line up, which is far better than having 5 talented players who have zero experience (see Kentucky).

Ya see.. Boeheim's been practicing this winning formula the last seven years or so (only with fewer elite players & more 'potential' players recently) and now the other coaches are gonna have to learn to do what he's already doing. That's why I'm feeling good about this whole thing...

 

[Ceerqqq]

It's pretty well known that the older you get the more willing you are to grind day in and day out.

Also adapting to change is another strong point.

Adapting to change...

Once again, Boeheim seems to be the anomaly. We just heard that Roy Williams is quitting the gig cuz he couldn't handle the changes.

But listening to Boeheim describe the New Situation in an interview, he seemed completely OK with what is happening, saying he doesn't think it's ideal, but it is what it is and he gave every reason to believe that he figures he knows how to navigate the waters...

...perhaps for the reasons I've outlined...

 

[jsshap]

I've explained the reasoning elsewhere, but since you either missed it or forgot it, here it is:

It should be abundantly obvious that Boeheim's #1 concern every season is being able to put five players on the court who--as a team--can beat the best five of those teams he'll face in the NCAAT. Those five will get all the PT that he believes they need to be able to become such a team at the end of the year.

Of course Boeheim & every other coach knows that they need key reserves that they'll turn to when someone's in foul trouble or being dominated at their position. Most years he can go 7 deep, other years 8 deep like this year, other years only 6. He wants to develop those 6-8 players optimally, but not at the expense of the starting five if they are making too many mistakes.

That's the problem. Sure, Boeheim knows that his 6-12 players would all benefit with some generous PT, but he'd have to be a coaching fool to sacrifice the performance/development of his starting five by doling out their PT to bench players because it would be good for the bench players if he did so.

So that's the big consideration. The inescapable trade-off. It's the reason why Boeheim--especially early in the season--is ALWAYS going to keep his starters in the game if the outcome is at all in doubt, if he believes they need it to improve as a unit, cuz he's thinking end-of-season performance.

That's why all coaches make their best guess at which 5-7 players have the ability to develop as a team over the course of a season to where they are hopefully 'unstoppable.' He wants them to get all the time, the repetitions, they need working together to where their team play is on an instinctive level (see Loyola Chicago) by the end of the season.

And yes, the 6-8 players also need some time playing with the starters if they've going to be at all helpful and not a detriment. So their PT is important too, but only if your starting five's development allows it.

This is why Boeheim had a good reason for not playing his reserves when his starting five was struggling to win games. They clearly had a lot to learn as a unit, and that means sufficient PT to get there.

At the same time that his reserves were not playing during this 'difficult time' for the team, they were nevertheless improving throughout the season during practice. That's the development that Boeheim was looking for from his reserves over the course of the season, that gained from practice.

From previous seasons, he's seen his less-experienced players learn a lot over the course of a season and most especially toward the end of the season. That is when he was expecting that they might be 'ready' to contribute without making serious in-game errors and without having handicapped the development of the starting five when they needed most of the PT to get better as a unit.

So why is it that the reserves are playing more now and making contributions to the team's success?

Quite plausibly, it is because the starting five have developed well enough (cuz they got the PT they needed earlier) for the reserves to be more effectively blended into the mix and because the reserves have improved enough in practice to where they are now ready to contribute.



So there's a reason why Boeheim's rotation critics are wrong in their belief that they possess a keen insight into coaching that has escaped JB. Playing a deeper bench earlier in the season at the expense of the starting five could very well have held back the development of the starting five, making the current run an impossibility.

Developing the bench in practice at the same time that the starters are ironing out all the mistakes that had been holding them back in actual games was clearly the reason why Boeheim wasn't playing the bench more earlier and it would account for the eventual outcome we've seen: superb team play and greater contributions from the bench (with fewer mistakes than they would have committed in games earlier, cuz they understand better how to execute Boeheim's Plan on both defense & offense.)

So yeah, when Boeheim said his players were not "ready" earlier, he was not saying that he didn't foresee them ever being ready down the road, which is what his critics seemed to just assume when they were getting themselves all worked up about the way JB was developing his team.

So yeah, from my understanding of the facts and Boeheim's approach to developing a team, this past season was indeed validation of his approach to developing his teams, in contrast to the mal-informed opinions that were being bounced around at mid-season...

I’m not going back here except to say that jb has this magical touch where each player is seasoned just perfectly until this discrete moment when they become “ready” and then he hits the on switch at just the right time is just so utterly ridiculous. That is illogical on multiple levels for multiple reasons but I’ve contributed too much already to that torture discussion and will move on. I did mean it that I appreciate the optimism though. And I’d take that over the vitriol from others all day and twice on Sunday. Thanks for that. I absolutely think we can find our way to be a solid team next year maybe even top 20. In the meantime go Yankees!

 

[dasher]

I dunno bout that, Dasher.

Not saying he wouldn't benefit from backing off the Bad Cop role a good bit more (didn't I hear that Buddy's been advising him on this issue?)

But it seems like I heard you express this same concern some 25-30 years ago that this 'coaching habit' of Boeheim's would handicap his ability to win and recruit, but dang it, it never did end his career, did it?

What I'm saying is that it doesn't seem to be as big, as costly, a problem as you have always feared.

Maybe cuz he balances his Meanie side with another side that 'controls' it? Maybe because, while he may be 'cold', he apparently comes across as as someone who understands basketball and that's what a lot of recruits are ultimately looking for?

You never heard me saying anything like that 25 to 30 years ago. Why lie? if you must know, back then., I was one of the few people that defended jb and his coaching. Times change. What worked 30 years ago , doesn't work anymore.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Adapting to change...

Once again, Boeheim seems to be the anomaly. We just heard that Roy Williams is quitting the gig cuz he couldn't handle the changes.

But listening to Boeheim describe the New Situation in an interview, he seemed completely OK with what is happening, saying he doesn't think it's ideal, but it is what it is and he gave every reason to believe that he figures he knows how to navigate the waters...

...perhaps for the reasons I've outlined...

The problem is

1. You're assuming that no other top coach is going to adapt.

2. We have to hope that the guys we get are more Mike Gbinije and less Geno Thorpe.

3. We've been having "down years" in more than just recruiting. We've been doing fine in the tournament but we have to GET THERE first. Every year save 2019 we've been sweating out selection sunday.