rebuilding the basketball program

[kcsu]

Like many on this community i started watching SU basketball in the late 60s. I played in college and have been bleeding orange my entire life. I hope that next year brings Red and the team great success but assuming the worst here is how i would go about rebuilding our program.

1: Hire an up-and-coming coach. Not a retread. Most importantly hire a coach that is known for being either a great offensive mind, which would be my choice or one that is known for running a smothering D. This in my opinion is super important. A coach in today's world has to have an identity. He has to be crystal clear on the style of play that the team is going to play. Why? Because it will play into the GMs role. If the GM knows what type of player is required the GM will be much more efficient. Efficient in targeting and efficient in not wasting money on kids that might be good players but not good fits. ( See Eddie)

2: Roster construction. Build the base of your roster with older players from the portal. Offshore or State side it doesn't matter but they need to be mature players who fit the coach's scheme. No guessing.
Make sure that you always have kids fit your culture. No more head cases. It's been way too long that our coaches have had to play psychologist vs coaching. If a kid has issues hard pass.
Put your money into players that can score. Not just shoot but score. Each team needs a go to player. Think of JJ but a grade or two better. Next put your money into kids that do something else well. Defend like Brown, Rebound and like to rebound, Rim protects, three point shot like Buddy. Have a roster of kids that have proven that they can do something well and tell them that is going to be their job. Dont get the kid that is a great rebounder but wants to spend his year or two at SU becoming a three point shooter. It doesnt ever work and it will never work in todays world. Have kids on the team that know their roles.
HS recruits should be brought on only if they are a super star or are good at a particular skill.
Never count on a HS player to lead the team, especially at the point G position.

3: Assistant coaches need to be good teachers. They need to be able to show kids what to do, and make them better. They dont need to be great recruiters. Teachers who are respected are what is needed. The head coach along with the GM has to be the closer. With the emphasis on the portal there isnt the need to beat the bushes and kiss kids arses on the trail. Rather show a kid you can get them to the league. Make them better.

4: Strenght and conditioning. Follow the football model. Set goals for each player and put together a very comprehensive plan that is individualized. Track progress and let them know that it matters.

Thats my two cents. Have at it.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

In BBall it is all about the HC, not the program. The problem is you can win pretty much anywhere. So if you are a HC, you better get a huge payday to leave your current gig.

For SU, we need to find the next good HC. However, we will not likely be able to retain them give our financial issues. It is the new way of things.

 

[SwagSocks]

Make Syracuse Basketball Great Again!

 

[hoopsupstate]

An up and coming coach scares me. I want a coach who has proven he can win and has the necessary skills to run a program. I don’t like one dimensional players. I like complete players who have IQ and toughness. I don’t like playing five on four or five on three. Every coach wants complete players and that can be tough to find. My big better be tough, a rebounder, can catch and score around the rim and run the floor. The other four guys have to be able to put the ball in the basket. They don’t all have to be three point shooters. Willing and capable passers are essential to winning. I can get hard working kids to play defense.

 

[JustPherU]

I want contracts for the players, 3 year minimum deals.Stop this nonsense of pick up games they are now playing in college athletics.

 

[phil77]

1- I don't care if they are up and coming or proven but I want someone who is ready and prepared to tackle the modern-day landscape of college sports both on and off the court and has a modern offensive system of offense and plays fast-paced basketball.

2- The problem with our current roster is we have too many one-dimensional players - JJ - Bell - Lumpkin our top 3 players that are paid the most are all one-dimensional we can't have that. Our weakest position on the court can never be point guard just like football it can't be QB it will never work. The PG doesn't have to be your best player but can't be the worst player. Your players need to be able to knock down three-point shots on a regular basis not like JJ it is a killer in modern basketball.

3- From what Bulldog said it seems we have tried to get a coach specifically for defense etc I think that is the model going forward. Have multiple assistants in charge of certain aspects of the game. Game planning next opponent, defense or offense (whichever the head coach doesn't do), skill/position development etc. If that currently doesn't exist in college then we need to make it exist for the first time be out in front of something.

4- Yes but basketball needs to have different types of training compared to football.

 

[djcon57]

I want contracts for the players, 3 year minimum deals.Stop this nonsense of pick up games they are now playing in college athletics.

Will you be taking the case to court?

Post like these are so dumb.

 

[phil77]

I want contracts for the players, 3 year minimum deals.Stop this nonsense of pick up games they are now playing in college athletics.

3 year contracts will never happen but you need a coach that creates a culture and environment that gets kids to stay 3-4 years it happens in other places.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Go back to the Big East. Kidding…….kinda.

But yea , revamped coaching staff with an identity and a total overhaul of s&c

 

[orangecuse]

Will you be taking the case to court?

Post like these are so dumb.

Well, a post such as yours offers what? Other than perhaps spewing condescension or the like. Anyways, it was simply a wish of his, not some absolute statement of fact implying why it isn't/hasn't been done, etc. I think that 'dumbass' (using your sentiment) Pitino uttered similar not too long ago.

The entire current system is a total quagmire and needs complete overhauling. College sports, at least the revenue ones of football and hoops nowadays, is semi-professional and/or minor league, no longer amatuer. NIL in its current state is a fascade for what it truly is, pay for play, and everyone knows it.

Obviously, the schools don't want to lose their tax exempt status, but it seems inevitable due to the current Wild West state of college revenue sports, where ultimately, players likely will become employee type, eventually having their own unionized CBA type agreements. Players will be paid under said contracts, which of course, they will voluntarily and legally sign if they want to be a part of this new NFL/NBA lite, if you will, type of league.

Moreover, the contracts (just as the NFL and NBA ones are LEGAL) will also limit their free agency, unless of course the player is a flyer/non marquee type (similar to the NFL/NBA) where the parties involved sign and agree to one year type tenders.

 

[djcon57]

Well, a post such as yours offers what? Other than perhaps spewing condescension or the like. Anyways, it was simply a wish of his, not some absolute statement of fact implying why it isn't/hasn't been done, etc. I think that 'dumbass' (using your sentiment) Pitino uttered similar not too long ago.

The entire current system is a total quagmire and needs complete overhauling. College sports, at least the revenue ones of football and hoops nowadays, is semi-professional and/or minor league, no longer amatuer. NIL in its current state is a fascade for what it truly is, pay for play, and everyone knows it.

Obviously, the schools don't want to lose their tax exempt status, but it seems inevitable due to the current Wild West state of college revenue sports, where ultimately, players likely will become employee type, eventually having their own unionized CBA type agreements. Players will be paid under said contracts, which of course, they will voluntarily and legally sign if they want to be a part of this new NFL/NBA lite, if you will, type of league.

Moreover, the contracts (just as the NFL and NBA ones are LEGAL) will also limit their free agency, unless of course the player is a flyer/non marquee type (similar to the NFL/NBA) where the parties involved sign and agree to one year type tenders.

I wasn’t aware we just post our wishes now. I wish Syracuse wins the championship for 10 years in a row.

how much you want to bet the players won’t have a union in the next 10 years. I’ll take on any amount.

A more likely scenario will be the sec and big 10 will break off into their own “league”. In which they will not be employees.

Also Pitino is 70 plus old. It shakes out with the general consensus of the elders here and over the net. They want it back the old way. Get over it

 

[Millhouse]

Like many on this community i started watching SU basketball in the late 60s. I played in college and have been bleeding orange my entire life. I hope that next year brings Red and the team great success but assuming the worst here is how i would go about rebuilding our program.

1: Hire an up-and-coming coach. Not a retread. Most importantly hire a coach that is known for being either a great offensive mind, which would be my choice or one that is known for running a smothering D. This in my opinion is super important. A coach in today's world has to have an identity. He has to be crystal clear on the style of play that the team is going to play. Why? Because it will play into the GMs role. If the GM knows what type of player is required the GM will be much more efficient. Efficient in targeting and efficient in not wasting money on kids that might be good players but not good fits. ( See Eddie)

2: Roster construction. Build the base of your roster with older players from the portal. Offshore or State side it doesn't matter but they need to be mature players who fit the coach's scheme. No guessing.
Make sure that you always have kids fit your culture. No more head cases. It's been way too long that our coaches have had to play psychologist vs coaching. If a kid has issues hard pass.
Put your money into players that can score. Not just shoot but score. Each team needs a go to player. Think of JJ but a grade or two better. Next put your money into kids that do something else well. Defend like Brown, Rebound and like to rebound, Rim protects, three point shot like Buddy. Have a roster of kids that have proven that they can do something well and tell them that is going to be their job. Dont get the kid that is a great rebounder but wants to spend his year or two at SU becoming a three point shooter. It doesnt ever work and it will never work in todays world. Have kids on the team that know their roles.
HS recruits should be brought on only if they are a super star or are good at a particular skill.
Never count on a HS player to lead the team, especially at the point G position.

3: Assistant coaches need to be good teachers. They need to be able to show kids what to do, and make them better. They dont need to be great recruiters. Teachers who are respected are what is needed. The head coach along with the GM has to be the closer. With the emphasis on the portal there isnt the need to beat the bushes and kiss kids arses on the trail. Rather show a kid you can get them to the league. Make them better.

4: Strenght and conditioning. Follow the football model. Set goals for each player and put together a very comprehensive plan that is individualized. Track progress and let them know that it matters.

Thats my two cents. Have at it.

This one year contact nonsense is will destroy college sports at every level. I think more energy needs to be devoted to fixing the lack of contracts. If younger players could commit for longer, teams might be more willing to take them instead of everyone moving around every year. This roster upheaval from full free agency transfers is messing up Podunk D3 baseball even

 

[Red2003]

This one year contact nonsense is will destroy college sports at every level. I think more energy needs to be devoted to fixing the lack of contracts. If younger players could commit for longer, teams might be more willing to take them instead of everyone moving around every year. This roster upheaval from full free agency transfers is messing up Podunk D3 baseball even

People may take offense to this but Syracuse has no seat at the table for any of this stuff and no one is listening or cares what SU thinks.

.

We are fighting for survival right now just to stay in a conference that will be relevant long term, we are not dictating terms and nothing said by Cuse in any of sports carries any weight outside of a small vacuum. It barely carries any weight in the ACC as is.

The $EC and B$G will continue to do what they want in this space and the rest will fall into line.

If they want contracts it will happen. If they want billionaires putting their names on jerseys it'll happen. If they want to turn the NCAA into the wild west that's what will happen too.

 

[miamicuse]

This one year contact nonsense is will destroy college sports at every level. I think more energy needs to be devoted to fixing the lack of contracts. If younger players could commit for longer, teams might be more willing to take them instead of everyone moving around every year. This roster upheaval from full free agency transfers is messing up Podunk D3 baseball even

Contracts won't solve the problem.

You mean contracts between players and nil sponsors for X years? If it's a national sponsor like Nike or Gatorade it doesn't matter if you change school every month. If it's local sponsors like a pizza joint or car dealer you change school you just negotiate a contract release and switch to new sponsors. It's not going to stop anyone who wants to portal out all it does is a bit more friction.

It cuts both ways too like Chance not playing for two years or you get JC for 2+ years. It's actually worse for us because we seem to collect injury prone or underachievers. No idea if it's a matter of poor player evaluation or poor player development but either way we want to be able to cut bait as soon as we know someone is not working out or giving 100% effort not stuck with that player for years.

 

[Don]

I want contracts for the players, 3 year minimum deals.Stop this nonsense of pick up games they are now playing in college athletics.

I wish they were 4 years like a scholarship. And I think this is a very smart post, one of the.best on here, it's good to bring out the age haters and the lack of oversize by moderators onthe board who have favorites and don't do anything about someone who constantly thinks they are the smartest person on the board and probably America so they can call people dumb.

 

[sufan59]

x.com

x.com

 

[djcon57]

x.com

x.com

Rothsteins not telling the whole story. Pitino was on Pardon My Take this week and admitted the reason St John’s is back is NIL. He helps get them to the next level for sure. But at the core this is due to Repole’s money

 

[Millhouse]

Contracts won't solve the problem.

You mean contracts between players and nil sponsors for X years? If it's a national sponsor like Nike or Gatorade it doesn't matter if you change school every month. If it's local sponsors like a pizza joint or car dealer you change school you just negotiate a contract release and switch to new sponsors. It's not going to stop anyone who wants to portal out all it does is a bit more friction.

It cuts both ways too like Chance not playing for two years or you get JC for 2+ years. It's actually worse for us because we seem to collect injury prone or underachievers. No idea if it's a matter of poor player evaluation or poor player development but either way we want to be able to cut bait as soon as we know someone is not working out or giving 100% effort not stuck with that player for years.

No, contacts between schools and players


Player A is Juan Soto -like, fine, you get a one year deal because you might leave and that's ok because you're already great

Player B is hakim Warrick, we believe in you long term, you need to show you believe in us

Ordinary D3 baseball players are transferring all the time because the portal changes every roster every year, most of them would prefer to just stay put, play, have friends, get through it

 

[dollarbill44]

I would get as much NIL I could scrape up and go out and get these guys. I would put this team up against any team:

• Tyrone, the defensive giant.
• Vinnie, a great player.
• Hammer, the rebound king.
• Moose, a real champ.
• Reggie, the all-American.
• Mohawk, tough & mean.
• Blade, the crowd-pleaser.
• Lewis, the top shooter.

 

[FloridaCuse]

Like many on this community i started watching SU basketball in the late 60s. I played in college and have been bleeding orange my entire life. I hope that next year brings Red and the team great success but assuming the worst here is how i would go about rebuilding our program.

1: Hire an up-and-coming coach. Not a retread. Most importantly hire a coach that is known for being either a great offensive mind, which would be my choice or one that is known for running a smothering D. This in my opinion is super important. A coach in today's world has to have an identity. He has to be crystal clear on the style of play that the team is going to play. Why? Because it will play into the GMs role. If the GM knows what type of player is required the GM will be much more efficient. Efficient in targeting and efficient in not wasting money on kids that might be good players but not good fits. ( See Eddie)

2: Roster construction. Build the base of your roster with older players from the portal. Offshore or State side it doesn't matter but they need to be mature players who fit the coach's scheme. No guessing.
Make sure that you always have kids fit your culture. No more head cases. It's been way too long that our coaches have had to play psychologist vs coaching. If a kid has issues hard pass.
Put your money into players that can score. Not just shoot but score. Each team needs a go to player. Think of JJ but a grade or two better. Next put your money into kids that do something else well. Defend like Brown, Rebound and like to rebound, Rim protects, three point shot like Buddy. Have a roster of kids that have proven that they can do something well and tell them that is going to be their job. Dont get the kid that is a great rebounder but wants to spend his year or two at SU becoming a three point shooter. It doesnt ever work and it will never work in todays world. Have kids on the team that know their roles.
HS recruits should be brought on only if they are a super star or are good at a particular skill.
Never count on a HS player to lead the team, especially at the point G position.

3: Assistant coaches need to be good teachers. They need to be able to show kids what to do, and make them better. They dont need to be great recruiters. Teachers who are respected are what is needed. The head coach along with the GM has to be the closer. With the emphasis on the portal there isnt the need to beat the bushes and kiss kids arses on the trail. Rather show a kid you can get them to the league. Make them better.

4: Strenght and conditioning. Follow the football model. Set goals for each player and put together a very comprehensive plan that is individualized. Track progress and let them know that it matters.

Thats my two cents. Have at it.

Excellent! Thanks.

 

[miamicuse]

No, contacts between schools and players


Player A is Juan Soto -like, fine, you get a one year deal because you might leave and that's ok because you're already great

Player B is hakim Warrick, we believe in you long term, you need to show you believe in us

Ordinary D3 baseball players are transferring all the time because the portal changes every roster every year, most of them would prefer to just stay put, play, have friends, get through it

So it's still a student or not?

Someone signs a two year contract but at end of year one GPA is 1.1 with two incompetent courses, what happens?

HC gets fired or moved on, have to stay on instead of transferring out?

Family back home get sick, no way to exit?

 

[dollarbill44]

So it's still a student or not?

Someone signs a two year contract but at end of year one GPA is 1.1 with two incompetent courses, what happens?

HC gets fired or moved on, have to stay on instead of transferring out?

Family back home get sick, no way to exit?

I think we only have athlete- students for a couple more years. This is trending towards professional leagues with the teams wearing the uniforms of the schools to which they're affiliated. They'll train in campus athletic facilities and play in the campus arenas, and if athletes want to take some classes, they can, but there won't be any academic requirements.

The end is drawing near for the athletic programs at the Syracuse's of the world.

 

[miamicuse]

I think we only have athlete- students for a couple more years. This is trending towards professional leagues with the teams wearing the uniforms of the schools to which they're affiliated. They'll train in campus athletic facilities and play in the campus arenas, and if athletes want to take some classes, they can, but there won't be any academic requirements.

The end is drawing near for the athletic programs at the Syracuse's of the world.

I hear you, since with NIL anyone with half a brain can see it's pay for play and there is no way to really separate NIL (aka popularity) from on court performance. This is clearly not what the inept NCAA envision when they came up with NIL but at least they had the foresight to recognize that they couldn't allow NIL to be used for recruiting or all bets are off, but they didn't see the court decision going against them so we are here.

But if we removed the very last layer of this "student athletes" playing for this team, than the players will be employees or contractors for the school. They will sign an employment contract with SU for a year or two...they are not students.

Will the real students and the community still feel the same for the team and support it the same way? I don't know.

I presume once the requirement of being a student is removed, you can sign someone for 8 years, there is no longer a 4 year eligibility thing that has to do with being a student anymore.

Red shirting makes no sense right? You are not ready why even pay you to sit? Come when you are ready to contribute.

A professional BB player can join the team. Why not? Take Melo when he couldn't get a team to sign him and forced his retirement could come back and play as a pro. So can anyone who still want a pay check to play for a "college team". It's college, G-league, Europe/Asia or NBA and one can move around.

NCAA will need to revise it's mission statement since it's no longer overseeing sports being played by student athletes.

Not sure what happens to volleyball or curling do these sports all get restructured to be employment based or outright eliminated.

 

[tbonezone]

we have a great arena and excellent facilities. (thanks carmelo) .we had a great tradition and a lot of national exposure for recruits when we were a top 25 team but that has been mostly squandered away the past 15 years or so . we still have an excellent academic standing and perhaps the premier communications degree in the country. we have geography in that we can recruit NYC , Philly, the entire northeast and most importantly Canada.
we used to be up on top of the hill . we got knocked off it . and it's a whole lot harder to climb and battle back uphill than to defend the summit recruiting wise. winning begets winners. we need to do a better job selling and capitalizing on what we got. and we need a new coach and a new culture. clean out the closets and start with a fresh new look . who knows IT may never come back. you lose IT long enuf you get labeled loser . and right now that's us . rooting for the underdogs , the upsets, the miracles .

 

[Millhouse]

So it's still a student or not?

Someone signs a two year contract but at end of year one GPA is 1.1 with two incompetent courses, what happens?

HC gets fired or moved on, have to stay on instead of transferring out?

Family back home get sick, no way to exit?

If only contracts could have language to deal with scenarios