Recruiting and Coaching

[Quazzum69]

I hear a lot about how recruiting is trending up, Shafer needs time for his recruits to get older, etc. Three years of Shafer and recruiting seems pretty similar. Here are the recruiting rankings according to Rivals (I assume they are all about the same):

2013: 12/14 in the ACC
2014: 12/14
2015: 12/14
2016 11/14

Maybe the talent level has gone up (relative to Big East years) but talent is still bottom of the league. Shafer will be lucky to crack the top 10 of the ACC, even if he starts winning.

(1) Can Shafer ever recruit elite talent (like, top 5 in ACC) to make up for his coaching deficiencies?
(2) If he can't get the best players, is Shafer some transcendent football mind to make up for a mediocre roster? Is he even an above average coach?

So far, Shafer has taken low-level ACC talent and gotten low-level results. He is performing where he should be given the recruiting and recruiting is bad and will most likely continue to be bad.

I say go after a young, radical coach that is looking to push the boundaries and give him a chance to experiment. What is there to lose? 0.500 and a crappy bowl is the ceiling now.

 

[qdawgg]

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The recruiting is definitely better. Dungey, Fredericks, Philips, Ishmael, Strickland and Estime all make plays. They are difference makers out there. They have these moments, and they're starting to accumulate, where the talent shines on the field. So by my eyes, yeah, that's real.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

twofourseven

2013 - 12 in ACC, 73 in nation
2014 - 10 in ACC, 50 in nation
2015 - 12 in ACC, 57 in nation
2016 - 11 in ACC, 56 in nation
2017 - 5 in ACC, 25 in nation

We're right about where we should be.

 

[TheCusian]

I hear a lot about how recruiting is trending up, Shafer needs time for his recruits to get older, etc. Three years of Shafer and recruiting seems pretty similar. Here are the recruiting rankings according to Rivals (I assume they are all about the same): 2013: 12/14 in the ACC 2014: 12/14 2015: 12/14 2016 11/14 Maybe the talent level has gone up (relative to Big East years) but talent is still bottom of the league. Shafer will be lucky to crack the top 10 of the ACC, even if he starts winning. (1) Can Shafer ever recruit elite talent (like, top 5 in ACC) to make up for his coaching deficiencies? (2) If he can't get the best players, is Shafer some transcendent football mind to make up for a mediocre roster? Is he even an above average coach? So far, Shafer has taken low-level ACC talent and gotten low-level results. He is performing where he should be given the recruiting and recruiting is bad and will most likely continue to be bad. I say go after a young, radical coach that is looking to push the boundaries and give him a chance to experiment. What is there to lose? 0.500 and a crappy bowl is the ceiling now.

Should be noted that 4 of our 12 games are not against ACC comp. One of those is typically another P5 with greater talent.

But 3 games a year *should* be against lesser talent.

It's a mountain to win an ACC championship, but not for a bowl. Talent is good enough to go bowling this year.

Also - an above avg QB can elevate a team above its recruiting ranking. I think Eric can and will.

 

[kcsu]

We are doing very well in recruiting and it will only get better. IPF. ACC, Young guys playing, Solid O plan in place. Also i believe that our recruits are much better than their rankings. I have zero problem with our recruiting think we are doing very well and on a national basis to boot

 

[timkay99]

Also i believe that our recruits are much better than their rankings.

Every team in the country believes this.

 

[Quazzum69]

twofourseven

2013 - 12 in ACC, 73 in nation
2014 - 10 in ACC, 50 in nation
2015 - 12 in ACC, 57 in nation
2016 - 11 in ACC, 56 in nation
2017 - 5 in ACC, 25 in nation

We're right about where we should be.

We have 2 commits for 2017 per 247 - the same number as Clemson. I seriously doubt we'll be right behind Clemson come spring of 2017.
Syracuse should be in the 10-12 range given our geography and 15+ years of mediocrity ... but don't expect more than 4 conference wins w/o some other major change.

 

[jekelish]

Every team in the country believes this.

I'm not sure how anyone can look at a kid like Dungey, for instance, and not think it's correct though. No one knew who Dungey was, yet he looks like he's got the potential to be one of the best QBs we've ever had, if he can stay healthy.

 

[cuseguy]

We have 2 commits for 2017 per . . . - the same number as Clemson. I seriously doubt we'll be right behind Clemson come spring of 2017. Syracuse should be in the 10-12 range given our geography and 15+ years of mediocrity ... but don't expect more than 4 conference wins w/o some other major change.

I do agree we've reached the stage where the program needs to do something radical to set itself apart.

The resurgence of SU football started in 1980 when the Dome was built. We were new, trendy, different. It helped attract better talent.

I'm sure being in the ACC and having a new IPF helps, but it won't for long. Everyone has that.

We need an electrifying player (maybe it's Dungey?) or a special coach with a different approach. We were at the forefront with our offensive style with Donnie Mc at QB.

I hope Coyle is smarter than the rest of us.

We need a spark.

 

[Bayside44]

On one hand I think a coach deserves a chance to coach his recruits as upperclassmen.

On the other hand I sat in Scott Stadium and watched out guy get outcoached by Mike London, who is going to lose his job.

Let's see what Mark Coyle does.

 

[TheCusian]

Every team in the country believes this.

Dungey and Fredericks have both outplayed their rankings as freshman.

I agree that we overvalue out talent some - but those two and maybe Phillips are real finds. Steven Clark, Q. Shepherd (who was downgraded to a 2*) too.

 

[dollarbill44]

It's a mountain to win an ACC championship, but not for a bowl. Talent is good enough to go bowling this year.

I have a different view of this in that I don't think it's as far-fetched as most do of winning an ACC championship. We are clearly in the better of the two divisions for FB, which means win the division and the odds are in our favor of winning the champ game. How on earth does that happen? Let's take next year's schedule. Obviously, we have to win out against Louisville(H), Wake(A), NCSU(H) and BC(A) - actually not that crazy of a scenario - and then both cross-over games (Pitt(A) and VaTech(H)) - also, not that crazy. That leaves Clemson(A) and FSU(H). Pull off an upset over one of those two and we're set up for a potential tie-breaker scenario against the other.

Mind you, I'm not saying we have a good chance next year, I'm just using that schedule as an example, but I don't think an ACC championship is an impossibility like a lot of posters on here do. Heck, Wake won it in 2006 and Duke was in the game two years ago, showing that traditional football doormats can do it.

 

[phil77]

On the other hand I sat in Scott Stadium and watched out guy get outcoached by Mike London, who is going to lose his job.

I think this pretty much says it all.

 

[timkay99]

I'm not sure how anyone can look at a kid like Dungey, for instance, and not think it's correct though. No one knew who Dungey was, yet he looks like he's got the potential to be one of the best QBs we've ever had, if he can stay healthy.

For me, Dungey is a player now and isn't a real good example b/c he is good.

But, many here liked Womack over him at QB. It's just the nature of the beast, for the most part, fan bases over value their recruits and their abilities. No team has signed a guy and been disappointed when he signed (well, except for Anomander and Ted Taylor).

 

[jekelish]

For me, Dungey is a player now and isn't a real good example b/c he is good.

But, many here liked Womack over him at QB. It's just the nature of the beast, for the most part, fan bases over value their recruits and their abilities. No team has signed a guy and been disappointed when he signed (well, except for Anomander and Ted Taylor).

I'm sorry, but how the hell is Dungey not a good example? He's basically the PERFECT example. We're talking about recruiting rankings and ratings. He was severely undervalued by the national experts. He's far surpassed expectations (of the experts...I'm going to keep tooting my own horn and reminding everyone I've been firmly on the Dungey bandwagon for a very long time and expected him to be a star).

 

[timkay99]

I'm sorry, but how the hell is Dungey not a good example? He's basically the PERFECT example. We're talking about recruiting rankings and ratings. He was severely undervalued by the national experts. He's far surpassed expectations (of the experts...I'm going to keep tooting my own horn and reminding everyone I've been firmly on the Dungey bandwagon for a very long time and expected him to be a star).

Because many of this fan base preferred Womack once the class was finalized..

We aren't talking about recruiting rankings and ratings, we are talking about how a fan base values their commits. Every fan base values their commits. Dungey is an example, so is AJ Long, so was Charley Loeb. Every fan thought they could be D-1 starters and potentially high level players.

Many here thought both could be D-1 ACC starters. While it remains to be seen if Womack becomes one, many believe that every recruit that is signed can start (and potentially right away).

 

[jekelish]

Because many of this fan base preferred Womack once the class was finalized..

We aren't talking about recruiting rankings and ratings, we are talking about how a fan base values their commits. Every fan base values their commits. Dungey is an example, so is AJ Long, so was Charley Loeb. Every fan thought they could be D-1 starters and potentially high level players.

Many here thought both could be D-1 ACC starters. While it remains to be seen if Womack becomes one, many believe that every recruit that is signed can start (and potentially right away).

No, we aren't. People are using the numbers about how we're 12th in the ACC or whatever, and using that as evidence of how recruiting hasn't improved.

 

[timkay99]

No, we aren't. People are using the numbers about how we're 12th in the ACC or whatever, and using that as evidence of how recruiting hasn't improved.

I am not talking minutaie of recruiting, I merely said every team overvalues their commits. I haven't done anything with that or tried to quantify recruiting.

 

[Trueblue25]

Saying HCSS can't recruit talent is absurd.

I can't wait for our d line, linebackers and Cordy to mature.

Dungey, Fredericks, Brisly, Erv and Ish will only get better. Want more Custis.

Sheppard, Slayton, Ealey and Clarke... so excited.

 

[jekelish]

I am not talking minutaie of recruiting, I merely said every team overvalues their commits. I haven't done anything with that or tried to quantify recruiting.

I'm not saying you are. But this thread has moved in that direction. People have pulled out year by year recruiting rankings to say that our talent hasn't improved. I'm pointing to Dungey, for example, as an example of how flawed recruiting rankings are, in response to those people.

 

[Bayside44]

Funny - I got a txt from a buddy who couldn't make the game on Saturday. He's not on this board (I don't think) and was all fired up that we have a QB and young talent and actually seemed happy. :noidea:

 

[AAM62]

I'm not sure how anyone can look at a kid like Dungey, for instance, and not think it's correct though. No one knew who Dungey was, yet he looks like he's got the potential to be one of the best QBs we've ever had, if he can stay healthy.

or clark, fredricks (!), bennett, etc. Not to mention we are keeping it within the present and not bringing up some of the past guys.

 

[AAM62]

I think this pretty much says it all.

London thanked the heavens on that PI call. Look at the game overall and you can tell he didnt get outcoached.

 

[AAM62]

A whole lot of nonsense on here re: rankings. The only knock on some of those guys are measurables. Most of them can play ball and will play above measurables by their senior years due to in game experience.