Recruiting approach

[GoSU96]

FB is replicating the Mac/P recruiting approach.

Focused on NY, NJ, Pa, Fla, Canada, NE and recruit Qb’s from anywhere.

Love it.

 

[shu 49]

Why would any coach do anything different. Boggles my mind as this already was proven to work. The thing i see as a former coach in hs is that a lot of coaches tend to be extremely pig headed in what they do and will not change even if it means they get their desired outcome. The great coaches will see some of what others do and use it to improve their ideas. I would take any great idea no matter who showed me or helped me with it and if i could incorporate it in my job or coaching i would. Ego be damned.

 

[Cusefan69]

Love the approach but let's also remember we have a by some reports the prior #1 alpha level recruiter in the country last year now as HC who was fortunate to have an old friend coach Erob who also was rated as a top 5 alpha level recruiter last year come from SEC country and who both where able to bring in another alpha top recruiter Nick Williams. Then after grabbed another seemingly strong recruiter in coach Redd. The strategy they are employing is great but the success of it is mainly due to the unicorn setup we ended up with regarding coaching staff and what I would argue is ADJW helping drive big fish donors. I am not sure how many other coaches are out there that could have implemented this type of change at least in talent we are seeing this quick. It's amazing what has happened to this point.

 

[GoSU96]

Why would any coach do anything different. Boggles my mind as this already was proven to work. The thing i see as a former coach in hs is that a lot of coaches tend to be extremely pig headed in what they do and will not change even if it means they get their desired outcome. The great coaches will see some of what others do and use it to improve their ideas. I would take any great idea no matter who showed me or helped me with it and if i could incorporate it in my job or coaching i would. Ego be damned.

I’ve been saying for years as a matter of demographics NYS should generate enough kids with P4 measurables to form the core of a recruiting class. You aren’t going to win recruiting rankings because the ranking services don’t staff the state like in the south and Midwest.

 

[JRHEETER]

I’ve been saying for years as a matter of demographics NYS should generate enough kids with P4 measurables to form the core of a recruiting class. You aren’t going to win recruiting rankings because the ranking services don’t staff the state like in the south and Midwest.

100% agree with you!

I’ve talked about this to some folks who have told me that you can’t recruit the NE to have a strong program, needs to be kids from Florida, Texas etc

I’m glad that HCFB is bucking the trend

 

[baggerbob]

I’ve been saying for years as a matter of demographics NYS should generate enough kids with P4 measurables to form the core of a recruiting class. You aren’t going to win recruiting rankings because the ranking services don’t staff the state like in the south and Midwest.

Money has been beating that drum for years. The fact that so many of the players in the Northeast, and Canada, play multiple sports slows down their growth in football.
So they don't get rated as high.
But this staff looks for measurables, size and speed, and looks at the player.
If Fran stays 10 years, recruiting in the Northeast and Canada is going to get crowded.

 

[SmilinBob]

FB is replicating the Mac/P recruiting approach.

Focused on NY, NJ, Pa, Fla, Canada, NE and recruit Qb’s from anywhere.

Love it.

Agreed. That said the hires Robinson, Shafer and Babers had no ties or base in those areas and Marrone wasn't a good recruiter though tried that the most.

Coach Fran is in that wheelhouse of the NE/Florida+ to the nth degree and brings SU back to its core.

 

[baggerbob]

Agreed. That said the hires Robinson, Shafer and Babers had no ties or base in those areas and Marrone wasn't a good recruiter though tried that the most.

Coach Fran is in that wheelhouse of the NE/Florida+ to the nth degree and brings SU back to its core.

But now with these coaches Texas, California are also in the equation.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I’ve been saying for years as a matter of demographics NYS should generate enough kids with P4 measurables to form the core of a recruiting class. You aren’t going to win recruiting rankings because the ranking services don’t staff the state like in the south and Midwest.

In 2023, there were 97 players on P4 rosters from New York State, including walk-ons. For comparison, Texas had 1,088 players on P4 rosters last year.

The currently infrastructure isn't there for New York to develop a significant number of P4 players to support what you suggest. (Short HS season, limited official pre-season, no spring ball, no real 7-on-7 circuit, etc.)

 

[JimBoston]

In 2023, there were 97 players on P4 rosters from New York State, including walk-ons. For comparison, Texas had 1,088 players on P4 rosters last year.

The currently infrastructure isn't there for New York to develop a significant number of P4 players to support what you suggest. (Short HS season, limited official pre-season, no spring ball, no real 7-on-7 circuit, etc.)

There are 6 P4 schools in Texas. 1,088 divided by 6 = 181 per school vs. 97 from NYS. So there are enough P4 recruits in NY to have a core group of players, say 25 to 35. In Texas, football players are developed in high school, but in the Northeast, they are developed in college. I have been arguing for years that the right recruiting approach for Syracuse was to go back to the traditional recruiting base of New England, NY, PA, NJ, MD, VA, and FL plus add in GA. One offs from other states. I would argue the #8 recruit in NYS is a better choice than the #35 recruit from Illinois or the #175 recruit from Florida. As for 7v7, there is a highly developed 7v7 in parts of New England and there has been for a number of years. There are >120 schools playing in the July 7v7 New England regionals. Over the past 5 years, QBs from New England have signed with Georgia, South Carolina, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, UCLA, and Miami.

 

[tep624]

2024 class - salvage the worthy carryovers, hit the portal hard, use the GA and TaMU cache to chase high level flip targets late.

2025 class - overkill on the NE, build the roster, establish relationships

2026 class - blue chip city

 

[GoSU96]

In 2023, there were 97 players on P4 rosters from New York State, including walk-ons. For comparison, Texas had 1,088 players on P4 rosters last year.

The currently infrastructure isn't there for New York to develop a significant number of P4 players to support what you suggest. (Short HS season, limited official pre-season, no spring ball, no real 7-on-7 circuit, etc.)

What’s that got to do with the raw numbers of kids that will have the measurables? I didn’t say anything about developed ready to go from day one players.

Texas doesn’t have 10 times as many people as NY.

All those factors go to how polished a kid may be, not height, weight, speed, and athleticism.

NY St has 1 P4 program. Texas has 7.

There’s a big potential pipeline that is going to need coaching but have the same athletic potential as kids who have spent a lifetime in youth and scholastic ball and summer 7-7.

SU should be able to get 10 to 15 kids a year out of the state that can play at a high level.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

What’s that got to do with the raw numbers of kids that will have the measurables? I didn’t say anything about developed ready to go from day one players.

Texas doesn’t have 10 times as many people as NY.

All those factors go to how polished a kid may be, not height, weight, speed, and athleticism.

NY St has 1 P4 program. Texas has 7.

There’s a big potential pipeline that is going to need coaching but have the same athletic potential as kids who have spent a lifetime in youth and scholastic ball and summer 7-7.

SU should be able to get 10 to 15 kids a year out of the state that can play at a high level.

The Texas number is for context purposes only - NY produces FAR less P4 talent than CA, TX, or FL. It’s important that this is established.

I don’t think anyone would argue that Syracuse can get by on being anything but a developmental program. But to what extent? There are different levels of “raw” - but why should Syracuse dedicate so much space (like a third of the roster) to guys they can bring along? No coach has that much of a leash - stuff like that takes time to develop properly, and you can’t expose yourself to having limited depth just for the sake of doing it.

Also, if there is untapped talent in NY, where is it manifesting itself? Of Buffalo, Stony Brook, Wagner, Albany, and Colgate, only Stony Brook had more than 50% NY players on its roster in 2023, and just barely (53%). If there was a market inefficiency out there, why isn’t some lower-level coach trying to exploit that?

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

There are 6 P4 schools in Texas. 1,088 divided by 6 = 181 per school vs. 97 from NYS. So there are enough P4 recruits in NY to have a core group of players, say 25 to 35. In Texas, football players are developed in high school, but in the Northeast, they are developed in college. I have been arguing for years that the right recruiting approach for Syracuse was to go back to the traditional recruiting base of New England, NY, PA, NJ, MD, VA, and FL plus add in GA. One offs from other states. I would argue the #8 recruit in NYS is a better choice than the #35 recruit from Illinois or the #175 recruit from Florida. As for 7v7, there is a highly developed 7v7 in parts of New England and there has been for a number of years. There are >120 schools playing in the July 7v7 New England regionals. Over the past 5 years, QBs from New England have signed with Georgia, South Carolina, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, UCLA, and Miami.

Why would you argue the #8 recruit from NY is better than the #35 recruit from IL or the #175 recruit from FL?

 

[kcsu]

Why would any coach do anything different. Boggles my mind as this already was proven to work. The thing i see as a former coach in hs is that a lot of coaches tend to be extremely pig headed in what they do and will not change even if it means they get their desired outcome. The great coaches will see some of what others do and use it to improve their ideas. I would take any great idea no matter who showed me or helped me with it and if i could incorporate it in my job or coaching i would. Ego be damned.

It's about Fit about culture the ability to relate, to connect with the individual and their family.
Fran is who he is recruiting. He comes from the same area. Has shared experiences . The old saying " birds of a feather flock together "
Gerg, Ohana had zero fit. Babers never embraced the community. It wasn't home. The guy wore Hawaiian shirts on game day. Seriously good guy but a fish out of water.
Fran and most of his staff fit. These guys have deep roots in our key areas and they don't back down, don't make excuses, tell it straight and it is resonating with everyone they come in contact with.
Fran is special and he knew SU was perfect for him.
If he wins 7 or more this year and we play everyone tough watch out as he is just getting started .

 

[721Comstock]

FB is replicating the Mac/P recruiting approach.

Focused on NY, NJ, Pa, Fla, Canada, NE and recruit Qb’s from anywhere.

Love it.

It’s one thing to focus on NY and the NE.

It’s another thing entirely to be able to LAND those kids who are P4 quality.

Prior staffs have offered regional P4 talents.
It’s just that the overwhelming majority of those kids had zero interest in Cuse, given the general meh of the program for the past 2 decades.

Fran is the man with the plan.

He’s the exact right guy at the exact right time to be able to not only want to recruit NY & NE, but actually be successful in doing so.

This will become a virtuous cycle, as the regional kids see Cuse players having success.
#FRANCHISE.

 

[shu 49]

It's about Fit about culture the ability to relate, to connect with the individual and their family.
Fran is who he is recruiting. He comes from the same area. Has shared experiences . The old saying " birds of a feather flock together "
Gerg, Ohana had zero fit. Babers never embraced the community. It wasn't home. The guy wore Hawaiian shirts on game day. Seriously good guy but a fish out of water.
Fran and most of his staff fit. These guys have deep roots in our key areas and they don't back down, don't make excuses, tell it straight and it is resonating with everyone they come in contact with.
Fran is special and he knew SU was perfect for him.
If he wins 7 or more this year and we play everyone tough watch out as he is just getting started .

I still think we could be way better than that this year. Im so damn excited for the season to start. also your 100% correct on fit for the school.

 

[money3189]

You all are making great points. You want to get the best players from wherever you can (especially if the staff members have ties to an area) but the NE recruiting should be a priority. You want to land the good players from your region. You want to have areas of the country where you feel really good about it. You dont want a bunch of areas where you think you have a chance. Thats not a good foundation to lean on. Fran is trying to land the Melifonwu's types and coach them up. We will see in a few years how it works out.

 

[upperdeck]

I still think we could be way better than that this year. Im so damn excited for the season to start. also your 100% correct on fit for the school.

I think if it this way.. Had we had McCord vs Shrader last yr. We lose some running for sure.. But the number of pass plays that better throws helps out is probably double. We had guys running open all over in games but no way to get them the ball.

then we compounded the issues with the DBs getting hurt. Having no pass rush, and the oline getting banged up. We helped all those areas and improved the depth at RB and the WR group and got OG back and added some pass rush.

We could play better for sure and lose, but we could play way better in 5 areas. the first 3 games we will know how high the ceiling is.

 

[buffalorange]

It's about Fit about culture the ability to relate, to connect with the individual and their family.
Fran is who he is recruiting. He comes from the same area. Has shared experiences . The old saying " birds of a feather flock together "
Gerg, Ohana had zero fit. Babers never embraced the community. It wasn't home. The guy wore Hawaiian shirts on game day. Seriously good guy but a fish out of water.
Fran and most of his staff fit. These guys have deep roots in our key areas and they don't back down, don't make excuses, tell it straight and it is resonating with everyone they come in contact with.
Fran is special and he knew SU was perfect for him.
If he wins 7 or more this year and we play everyone tough watch out as he is just getting started .

Dino should have implemented a pre-game haka to go with the Hawaiin shirts!

 

[GoSU96]

The Texas number is for context purposes only - NY produces FAR less P4 talent than CA, TX, or FL. It’s important that this is established.

I don’t think anyone would argue that Syracuse can get by on being anything but a developmental program. But to what extent? There are different levels of “raw” - but why should Syracuse dedicate so much space (like a third of the roster) to guys they can bring along? No coach has that much of a leash - stuff like that takes time to develop properly, and you can’t expose yourself to having limited depth just for the sake of doing it.

Also, if there is untapped talent in NY, where is it manifesting itself? Of Buffalo, Stony Brook, Wagner, Albany, and Colgate, only Stony Brook had more than 50% NY players on its roster in 2023, and just barely (53%). If there was a market inefficiency out there, why isn’t some lower-level coach trying to exploit that?

You’re arguing against a bunch of points I didn’t make. Go for it.

 

[007]

You all are making great points. You want to get the best players from wherever you can (especially if the staff members have ties to an area) but the NE recruiting should be a priority. You want to land the good players from your region. You want to have areas of the country where you feel really good about it. You dont want a bunch of areas where you think you have a chance. Thats not a good foundation to lean on. Fran is trying to land the Melifonwu's types and coach them up. We will see in a few years how it works out.

Really good post money, per usual.

I think the bolded above is especially relevant and on point given how the 25 class is shaping up. The trend of the class seems to be kids with measurables vs kids with multiple P4 and blue blood offers. This implies a couple of things. One, Fran must believe that his current success rate will be higher focusing on kids with measureables (note: a "trend" does not mean at the exclusion of the multiple P4/BB offers types - we desperately need to add the best players we can realistically recruit). Two, a very strong belief that the staff will be able to coach those measurables into production over time.

I think it would be wise to bump the brakes on expecting 8+ regular season wins. Because, as you said, we will need a few years to see how this works out.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

You’re arguing against a bunch of points I didn’t make. Go for it.

I’m directly challenging points you made.

You said there’s tons of untapped P4 talent in the state. I’d like you to tell us where it is.

I also directly challenge why recruiting RAW prospects would be short term beneficial, especially in a coaching industry doesn’t like to be long term.

 

[money3189]

Really good post money, per usual.

I think the bolded above is especially relevant and on point given how the 25 class is shaping up. The trend of the class seems to be kids with measurables vs kids with multiple P4 and blue blood offers. This implies a couple of things. One, Fran must believe that his current success rate will be higher focusing on kids with measureables (note: a "trend" does not mean at the exclusion of the multiple P4/BB offers types - we desperately need to add the best players we can realistically recruit). Two, a very strong belief that the staff will be able to coach those measurables into production over time.

I think it would be wise to bump the brakes on expecting 8+ regular season wins. Because, as you said, we will need a few years to see how this works out.

Agree

 

[GoSU96]

I’m directly challenging points you made.

You said there’s tons of untapped P4 talent in the state. I’d like you to tell us where it is.

I also directly challenge why recruiting RAW prospects would be short term beneficial, especially in a coaching industry doesn’t like to be long term.

Where did I say tons? I said the potential pipeline is larger than thought based on pure demographics and that there is enough to grab 10-15 kids a year.

if Texas has 1000 p4 players rough math 200 a year. Ny is approximately 2/3rds the size of Texas. Take 132 discount it 50% for the football cultural differences.

That should yield 65 legit prospects. That’s a big pipeline for the only p4 program in the state to work. You get 20% of that group there’s your 10-15 a year. Get 1/2 of the top 20 in the state, which they seem to be on the path towards, and you are doing very well.

tell me where I said the whole class should be ny kids? Tell me where I said have them all be raw?