Recruiting is haunting us!

[hoopsupstate]

It's amazing to me that we have been able to upgrade the talent on defense with almost all of Marronne's recruits. They have some great young talent on the defensive side of the ball. After three recruiting classes we still don't have a Marronne recruit that's making a difference on the offense side of the ball. Not ONE playmaker. There's Tiller, Hay and McPherson on the offensive line and that's it. After five games, Lemon and Chew are average receivers at best. They don't make plays after the catch and they can't separate from defensive backs. We still haven't recruited a great back that's a game breaker. I still don't see a gamebreaker in next year's class either. Until this changes we aren't going to be able to compete against the good teams. I don't put Rutgers in that category. They are a dreadful team. Defense OK, but that offense is as bad as ours and they do have a playmaker. This is the most alarming thing about this coaching staff. They haven't been able to bring in great talent on offense.

 

[orangehomer]

It's amazing to me that we have been able to upgrade the talent on defense with almost all of Marronne's recruits. They have some great young talent on the defensive side of the ball. After three recruiting classes we still don't have a Marronne recruit that's making a difference on the offense side of the ball. Not ONE playmaker. There's Tiller, Hay and McPherson on the offensive line and that's it. After five games, Owen and Chew are average receivers at best. They don't make plays after the catch and they can't separate from defensive backs. We still haven't recruited a great back that's a game breaker. I still don't see a gamebreaker in next year's class either. Until this changes we aren't going to be able to compete against the good teams. I don't put Rutgers in that category. They are a dreadful team. Defense OK, but that offense is as bad as ours and they do have a playmaker. This is the most alarming thing about this coaching staff. They haven't been able to bring in great talent on offense.

i basically just wrote the same thing. it's really hard to win when you don't have offensive playmakers that can win 1v1 battles, because you have to rely on scheme and execution. marrone needs to find a way to recruit some breakout skill players.

 

[jekelish]

Mike Owen still plays for us?

 

[Dick_in_MI]

It's amazing to me that we have been able to upgrade the talent on defense with almost all of Marronne's recruits. They have some great young talent on the defensive side of the ball. After three recruiting classes we still don't have a Marronne recruit that's making a difference on the offense side of the ball. Not ONE playmaker. There's Tiller, Hay and McPherson on the offensive line and that's it. After five games, Owen and Chew are average receivers at best. They don't make plays after the catch and they can't separate from defensive backs. We still haven't recruited a great back that's a game breaker. I still don't see a gamebreaker in next year's class either. Until this changes we aren't going to be able to compete against the good teams. I don't put Rutgers in that category. They are a dreadful team. Defense OK, but that offense is as bad as ours and they do have a playmaker. This is the most alarming thing about this coaching staff. They haven't been able to bring in great talent on offense.

This is not an unfair criticism. Throughout GRob's tenure, among the many criticisms of him that I had was his inability to bring in impact players. Many of his defenders would say that P left the cupboard bare. My response was always "if that's true, then what does it say that after several years, GRob was still using so many of P's players? What it said was GRob wasn't bringing in impact players. He wasn't bringing in guys who were better than the supposedly "bare cupboard" players.

Not to say that he didn't bring in some guys who, with time, would develop into something. But he didn't bring in his own guys who had huge immediate impact.

Coaches who turn programs around quickly are able to do that.

When you look at our offensive starters, you don't see a lot of Marrone recruits. Now to be fair, if our D were healthy, you wouldn't be seeing as many Marrone recruits on that side of the ball either. But it is telling that Doug hasn't managed to bring in many "immediate-impact" guys of his own on the O-side of the ball.

Not sure if that's a cause for concern or not. If over a 3-4 year period we develop the recruits he has brought in into a solid unit, then I guess it doesn't matter. But all of that is still unknown at this point.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Mike Owen still plays for us?

It's great to edit!

 

[bnoro]

It's amazing to me that we have been able to upgrade the talent on defense with almost all of Marronne's recruits. They have some great young talent on the defensive side of the ball. After three recruiting classes we still don't have a Marronne recruit that's making a difference on the offense side of the ball. Not ONE playmaker. There's Tiller, Hay and McPherson on the offensive line and that's it. After five games, Lemon and Chew are average receivers at best. They don't make plays after the catch and they can't separate from defensive backs. We still haven't recruited a great back that's a game breaker. I still don't see a gamebreaker in next year's class either. Until this changes we aren't going to be able to compete against the good teams. I don't put Rutgers in that category. They are a dreadful team. Defense OK, but that offense is as bad as ours and they do have a playmaker. This is the most alarming thing about this coaching staff. They haven't been able to bring in great talent on offense.

How about Justin Pugh? Zach Chibane? Two big name starters you left out on the O-Line. How about Kris Curtis, who looked great in camp? Rob Trudo? Sean Hickey? All of those kids are going to play major roles on the O-Line next year.

How do you know Ameen Moore's not a "game breaker" back? How about Prince Tyson Gulley? He looked real good before his injury.

Lemon and Chew are better than average. Jarrod West has looked real good in his limited time. Kobena's been great on KO returns, hasn't had a chance on offense yet. We have a few recievers that are true freshmen and haven't played yet.

Once again, didn't see this post last week. But because we lose to Rutgers now we don't have playmakers on offense. I would love to see us have someone step up and be Mike Williams, but that's not going to happen this year. If we score 50 points next week will you post this again?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

How about Justin Pugh? Zach Chibane? Two big name starters you left out on the O-Line. How about Kris Curtis, who looked great in camp? Rob Trudo? Sean Hickey? All of those kids are going to play major roles on the O-Line next year.

How do you know Ameen Moore's not a "game breaker" back? How about Prince Tyson Gulley? He looked real good before his injury.

Lemon and Chew are better than average. Jarrod West has looked real good in his limited time. Kobena's been great on KO returns, hasn't had a chance on offense yet. We have a few recievers that are true freshmen and haven't played yet.

Once again, didn't see this post last week. But because we lose to Rutgers now we don't have playmakers on offense. I would love to see us have someone step up and be Mike Williams, but that's not going to happen this year. If we score 50 points next week will you post this again?

There were posts about this topic last week. I know because I made one about it.

 

[hungrychuck]

How about Justin Pugh? Zach Chibane? Two big name starters you left out on the O-Line. How about Kris Curtis, who looked great in camp? Rob Trudo? Sean Hickey? All of those kids are going to play major roles on the O-Line next year.

How do you know Ameen Moore's not a "game breaker" back? How about Prince Tyson Gulley? He looked real good before his injury.

Lemon and Chew are better than average. Jarrod West has looked real good in his limited time. Kobena's been great on KO returns, hasn't had a chance on offense yet. We have a few recievers that are true freshmen and haven't played yet.

Once again, didn't see this post last week. But because we lose to Rutgers now we don't have playmakers on offense. I would love to see us have someone step up and be Mike Williams, but that's not going to happen this year. If we score 50 points next week will you post this again?

All due respect, I'm not sure this responds to the OP re "playmakers." Don't believe most people would put offensive linemen in this category. And out of those you mentioned, only Pugh would appear to be above average. Actually, pretty worrying that the OL looks to be one of this team's weaknesses despite having four of five back under an OL expert.

The skill guys you cite are not convincing. Would say they're average at best. And some are theoretical. For instance, how do we know AAM and Kobena aren't simply busts? No evidence either way.

I like Doug and think he will get us there. But the OP is correct in his premise. His recruiting on offense is not exciting thus far.

 

[Rocco]

Jarrod West will be fine.

Van Chew isn't a Marrone recruit.

The jury is still out on AAM because he hasn't played.

Kobena needs to figure out how to turn while returning kicks versus running in a straight line.

Foster will be good, you watch. He has ideal size and the staff obviously has alot of confidence in him throwing at him in a crucial spot in the game (play didn't end well, but not the point).

We haven't yet seen Broyld, Smallwood, Hunt, Trudo, Curtis or Hickey.

There are alot of athletes coming in for the 2012 class too.

 

[SoBristol]

Marrone has upgraded the recruiting of defensive guys (Shafer's defense and the position coaches may have helped with that); he has used the JUCO ranks much more effectively than GROB -- particularly to add size and toughness (Tiller, Cruz, Hay, Ball, Alexander, Goggins, Weaver); and his recruiting for both lines appears to be a step up (Bromley, Crume, Curtis, Foy, Trudo, Hickey). The current group of commits lines up the same way -- defense and size.
What's lacking? GROB brought in an impact WR from the JUCO ranks (Taj Smith); he brought in Carter, Hogue, Bailey; his WRs contributed as frosh (Mike Williams, Sales, Lemon). His QB recruits panned out (Legree after a transfer to a lower level; Nassib).
The jury is out on several of Marrone's playmakers (Gulley looked fine; Broyld and Smallwood at Milford; maybe West or Foster will develop at WR; maybe Moore will get his chances), but at a comparable stage, Marrone has not matched GROB's recruiting of impact skill guys on the offensive side. None of his WRs have top 100 ranking -- same is true for the two commits in the 2012 class.
Some of this might be Marrone's emphasis, and he has a point. Focusing on linemen and defense, he has made SU competitive (GROB never did, except against ND and Louisville). He wants WRs with size. He just needs to top it off with his Carter and his Mike Williams (and a big TE).

 

[Scooch]

My one big disappointment in recruiting is that in 3 classes we haven't brought in a playmaking wide receiver. This may be just my perception, but it seems that every team we play, from conference opponents to MAC schools, have at least one big fast kid we gotta pay attention to. We don't have that, and it's perhaps our most glaring problem on O (not biggest problem, that'd be the OL, but most glaring).

Hell, I'd kill just for a Jim Turner now.

 

[BlackKnight76]

Kobena needs to figure out how to turn while returning kicks versus running in a straight line.

Kobena's nursing a minor injury which is why we're only playing him on KRs. Marrone mentioned it last week.

Our inability to block on KRs is much more of an issue than Kobena.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Kobena's nursing a minor injury which is why we're only playing him on KRs. Marrone mentioned it last week.

Our inability to block on KRs is much more of an issue than Kobena.

I feel like our special teams units are very thin - literally. I guess as the team builds depth, special teams will improve.

 

[PhatOrange]

It's amazing to me that we have been able to upgrade the talent on defense with almost all of Marronne's recruits. They have some great young talent on the defensive side of the ball. After three recruiting classes we still don't have a Marronne recruit that's making a difference on the offense side of the ball. Not ONE playmaker. There's Tiller, Hay and McPherson on the offensive line and that's it. After five games, Lemon and Chew are average receivers at best. They don't make plays after the catch and they can't separate from defensive backs. We still haven't recruited a great back that's a game breaker. I still don't see a gamebreaker in next year's class either. Until this changes we aren't going to be able to compete against the good teams. I don't put Rutgers in that category. They are a dreadful team. Defense OK, but that offense is as bad as ours and they do have a playmaker. This is the most alarming thing about this coaching staff. They haven't been able to bring in great talent on offense.

Syracuse has not recruited well on offense and people who think we have are delusional.

Lineman are hard to predict so who the hell knows but I do believe we need more. We haven't recruited any impact skill kids and we desperately need a few. PT is there for the taking for any blue chip WR or RB. I like our TE's but we still need to upgrade. We don't have a dual threat TE , a guy who can catch and block. Still waiting for Hackett to exploit Stevens or Provo down the seam instead of catching everything in the flats. Anyhow, I really hope we can get Ron Thompson to go with Parris. Thompson is going to come in close to 250lbs or more - he'll be at a legit size coming in - instead of the 220lb TE's were used to.

 

[Dkelz]

How about Justin Pugh? Zach Chibane? Two big name starters you left out on the O-Line. How about Kris Curtis, who looked great in camp? Rob Trudo? Sean Hickey? All of those kids are going to play major roles on the O-Line next year.

How do you know Ameen Moore's not a "game breaker" back? How about Prince Tyson Gulley? He looked real good before his injury.

Lemon and Chew are better than average. Jarrod West has looked real good in his limited time. Kobena's been great on KO returns, hasn't had a chance on offense yet. We have a few recievers that are true freshmen and haven't played yet.

Once again, didn't see this post last week. But because we lose to Rutgers now we don't have playmakers on offense. I would love to see us have someone step up and be Mike Williams, but that's not going to happen this year. If we score 50 points next week will you post this again?

I completely agree with all of this.

This thread is embarrassing. Marrone has had three recruiting classes, the first of which he had to scrape together after he arrived. That first class only included six offensive players and four of them are starting for us today (Lemon, Pugh, Chibane and Tiller).

The players he's brought in from his other recruiting classes are all freshmen or sophomores now (JUCOs aside). But yeah, let's write all of those guys off forever because we're pissed that we lost this week. And never mind the fact that we have a veteran offense so most of Marrone's recruits are playing behind established guys like Nassib, Bailey, Chew and Provo.

His recruits are contributing on defense more because it's been necessary. Observant posters may have noticed that we've lost a number of veterans on that side of the ball since last year. Of course there are more of his guys playing there-- there's no one else.

 

[SmilinBob]

I like the direction the recruiting is going and I believe it will continue a slow climb upward regarding the targeted recruits. Marrone is doing an excellent job of being assessable to HS coaches and has been building relationships with the coaches and players in areas he wants to recruit. I like the young players he has now and once this injury bug leaves I think we'll see a better product with more options than we have right now.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The players he's brought in from his other recruiting classes are all freshmen or sophomores now (JUCOs aside). But yeah, let's write all of those guys off forever because we're pissed that we lost this week.

Aw, c'mon D. It ain't like that.

I wrote them off way before we lost this week.

 

[dollarbill44]

Lemon and Chew are average receivers at best. They don't make plays after the catch and they can't separate from defensive backs.

I think you have selective memory. I remember Lemon scoring a long TD on a deep slant over the middle last year against Louisville. Lemon also got behind his defender against Pitt and would have had a TD if the ball had been thrown a little better. Maybe you forgot that Chew had 3 steps on the Safety against Rutgers and could have cruised into the endzone for a TD but Nassib overthrew him. I'd also like to remind you that Chew made a catch against USC that got him nominated for "national play of the year".

I could come up with more examples, but it likely wouldn't change your mind.

 

[kuethstheman]

All good examples but the point is we need guys that the other team has to game plan for. Lemon and Chew are not that kind of guy. Some of the younger guys may be that someday but not soon, otherwise they'd be on the field already. I have hopes for Broyld and Smallwood someday but we need more than them, anyway.

Aw, c'mon D. It ain't like that.

I wrote them off way before we lost this week.

 

[All4SU]

I completely agree with all of this.

This thread is embarrassing. Marrone has had three recruiting classes, the first of which he had to scrape together after he arrived. That first class only included six offensive players and four of them are starting for us today (Lemon, Pugh, Chibane and Tiller).

The players he's brought in from his other recruiting classes are all freshmen or sophomores now (JUCOs aside). But yeah, let's write all of those guys off forever because we're pissed that we lost this week. And never mind the fact that we have a veteran offense so most of Marrone's recruits are playing behind established guys like Nassib, Bailey, Chew and Provo.

His recruits are contributing on defense more because it's been necessary. Observant posters may have noticed that we've lost a number of veterans on that side of the ball since last year. Of course there are more of his guys playing there-- there's no one else.

Yup. And that's why recruiting a defense was priority #1.

 

[ImperialOrange]

All good examples but the point is we need guys that the other team has to game plan for. Lemon and Chew are not that kind of guy. Some of the younger guys may be that someday but not soon, otherwise they'd be on the field already. I have hopes for Broyld and Smallwood someday but we need more than them, anyway.

I think Lemon could still be that guy. Have to watch this last game to see what the defense was doing against him but I think the secret on Van Chew is out. Press coverage off the line shuts him down, zone coverage or playing 5 yards off him and he can hurt you. So 1 v 1 bump coverage on Chew and roll coverage to Lemon pretty much gets it done at this point. If we had Sales or Graham showed up it would make life alot easier on both our starters. As for the young WR's we won't know until they get more PT. You don't really want to have to depend on a frosh or soph WR vs someone who already knows the playbook and how to run block but I hope to be seeing more of West sooner rather than later.
As for the who recruited who debate. Doesn't really much matter at this point. They are all Marrone's players now so their successes and/or short comings are on him and the current staff. What is obvious though, is the current staff is recruiting physically different players especially at WR. 2 seasons from now our WR's will all be 6'3 200+ lbs vs 5'10 180, 6'0 200, and 6'1 170. Lemon is the only one that presently has all the tools minus the height.

I honestly didn't miss Sales that much until I typed that. Not that he alone would or would not have been spectacular (been debated to death) but Lemon and Chew wouldve certainly benefitted from him being out there.

 

[ImperialOrange]

My one big disappointment in recruiting is that in 3 classes we haven't brought in a playmaking wide receiver. This may be just my perception, but it seems that every team we play, from conference opponents to MAC schools, have at least one big fast kid we gotta pay attention to. We don't have that, and it's perhaps our most glaring problem on O (not biggest problem, that'd be the OL, but most glaring).

Hell, I'd kill just for a Jim Turner now.

How about Deferral Davis? Per TOS talent evaluator he was the real deal. Shame he didn't get it done in class but we did recruit and land a (supposed) playmaker at WR.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

How about Deferral Davis? Per TOS talent evaluator he was the real deal. Shame he didn't get it done in class but we did recruit and land a (supposed) playmaker at WR.

What ever happened to Def Davis..

 

[cuseincincy]

Su has some interesting players on offense but Bailey is the only one I'd call a playmaker. And he just can't do it all and is not suited to do it all. He needs help. I believe it is fair to say that Marrone has not landed an impact player on offense. If he had, they'd be playing. Impact players are not usually "developed." The trush frosh may develop into quality D1 players and even be above average. But AAM in particular, if he were an "impact player"...he'd be playing and not sitting at 4th string (I guess 3rd now). Either that or our coach is stubborn and...oh well just forget that part.

 

[ImperialOrange]

What ever happened to Def Davis..

Quick google searched before posting that and was all old articles. He's probably playing in a rec league somewhere with Andrey Baskin.