Recruiting over this year's team

[two3zone]

Panned out? He's injured. Did you think his knee would miraculously heal if he didn't have to walk to any classes at Ky?

He only averaged 12 minutes a game his freshman year, and 13 his sophomore year before the injury. That's enough data.

 

[two3zone]

Yah, that's it ... I hate Ky because they're "successful" and, also, "I hate Duke", lol. Or... maybe I respect Duke (and Coach K) because they run a top-notch program with high academic standards, as opposed to Ky -- where they can't even say "student-athlete" with a straight face. lol

With our academics the past few years I don't think it's really fair to be throwing the "student athlete" accusations at other teams.

 

[jordoo]

He only averaged 12 minutes a game his freshman year, and 13 his sophomore year before the injury. That's enough data.

You realize he had a knee injury both seasons correct? Obviously he wasn't playing heavy minutes either season but his development has had to be hampered by every season ending in a major knee issue/surgery followed by rehab. Its hard to make an objective evaluation when that happens IMO. Do you feel he would be in the NBA now had he not been injured? Do you feel had he chosen UK instead and not been injured he would be in the NBA now?

 

[two3zone]

You realize he had a knee injury both seasons correct? Obviously he wasn't playing heavy minutes either season but his development has had to be hampered by every season ending in a major knee issue/surgery followed by rehab. Its hard to make an objective evaluation when that happens IMO. Do you feel he would be in the NBA now had he not been injured? Do you feel had he chosen UK instead and not been injured he would be in the NBA now?

I understand that his development was hampered, but even when he was healthy both seasons he wasn't getting minutes you'd expect from a McDonalds All American. And yes, if he went to Kentucky and didn't get injured there he very well could be in the NBA.

 

[jordoo]

I understand that his development was hampered, but even when he was healthy both seasons he wasn't getting minutes you'd expect from a McDonalds All American. And yes, if he went to Kentucky and didn't get injured there he very well could be in the NBA.

But not if he wasn't injured here at SU?

 

[HOFCeluck]

Duke with its three year sociology "degree?"

 

[two3zone]

But not if he wasn't injured here at SU?

With the minutes he was getting, the lack of touches in the post, zone defense, and the quick pulls. Not a chance. I have ZERO problem with our system, but it's not exactly great for bigs to show off their skills. If we had capable guards this year, I doubt Rak would be the player he is this year and we'd continue to be a extremely guard orientated team.

 

[jordoo]

With the minutes he was getting, the lack of touches in the post, zone defense, and the quick pulls. Not a chance. I have ZERO problem with our system, but it's not exactly great for bigs to show off their skills. If we had capable guards this year, I doubt Rak would be the player he is this year and we'd continue to be a extremely guard orientated team.

And whom would he have been playing behind had he gone to UK? Should we look at the roster? The thing with DC2 was that he didn't play the best competition in highschool and he really needed to adjust his game to be effective in College offensively. I think he had a chance to do that with more time and no injuries. He still would have had to do the same thing at any school, I'm not convinced that he would have gotten all that much more PT at UK, I'd have to look at who they had the last two seasons (which was before the platoon).

I think this year Rak would be a major part even if Ennis where back mainly because the rest of the front court is pretty inexperienced but in general JB prefers to run his offense through the guards and forwards. That said guys that have proven they can score effectively on the blocks have gotten the chance to do it in the past.

 

[Flintstones]

With the minutes he was getting, the lack of touches in the post, zone defense, and the quick pulls. Not a chance. I have ZERO problem with our system, but it's not exactly great for bigs to show off their skills. If we had capable guards this year, I doubt Rak would be the player he is this year and we'd continue to be a extremely guard orientated team.

Don't think it's fair to say our system isn't good for big guys. Etan got touches, Forth did not. It's not difficult for our "guard oriented" offense to dump the ball down to the post if our center is a capable scoring threat.

 

[SWC75]

Fans are forever assuming that incoming freshmen will be better than what they've got. They are comparing high school highlights to what they've seen in college games. This year's team vs. what people were saying about these players when they were first recruited should be an object lesson, but it never takes.

 

[reedny]

He only averaged 12 minutes a game his freshman year, and 13 his sophomore year before the injury. That's enough data.

His knees have been a chronic problem, so you're argument is baseless. But even if he was completely healthy, maybe he'd like to play for a HOF coach instead of Pay Pal. Or maybe he likes the Cuse b/c he's from New York. Or maybe he wants to learn something, and prefers being a genuine student athlete over being babied in a special dorm for 7 months without meaningful classroom instruction. Or maybe he doesn't like the idea of being platooned, or hanging out with rappers and money handlers. It's only a matter of time b/ the whole Ky house of cards comes down.

 

[two3zone]

Don't think it's fair to say our system isn't good for big guys. Etan got touches, Forth did not. It's not difficult for our "guard oriented" offense to dump the ball down to the post if our center is a capable scoring threat.

Our system is obviously not great for getting guys to the NBA if your citing Etan as a good example.

 

[reedny]

Our system is obviously not great for getting guys to the NBA if your citing Etan as a good example.

"Our" ... lol. You say that like you're an SU fan. Let's not pretend here.

 

[two3zone]

And whom would he have been playing behind had he gone to UK? Should we look at the roster? The thing with DC2 was that he didn't play the best competition in highschool and he really needed to adjust his game to be effective in College offensively. I think he had a chance to do that with more time and no injuries. He still would have had to do the same thing at any school, I'm not convinced that he would have gotten all that much more PT at UK, I'd have to look at who they had the last two seasons (which was before the platoon). I think this year Rak would be a major part even if Ennis where back mainly because the rest of the front court is pretty inexperienced but in general JB prefers to run his offense through the guards and forwards. That said guys that have proven they can score effectively on the blocks have gotten the chance to do it in the past.

It's a matter of opinion, we just happen to disagree. I honestly don't know what pt Dc would have gotten at Kentucky, but looking at the information available they seem to play the mcaa they get in, we have a history that they don't.

I wasn't a huge fan of DC when we recruited him and also cited his HS competition as weak but it doesn't mean Cal would have given him 12 minutes a game.

At Syracuse we have a goal and that is to win games no matter what, there's nothing wrong with that and we've been extremely successful at that even if it means not giving mcaa players big minutes their first year. At Kentucky it seems like they get more minutes and more opportunity, even if it means Kentucky is going to play in the NIT.

 

[two3zone]

His knees have been a chronic problem, so you're argument is baseless. But even if he was completely healthy, maybe he'd like to play for a HOF coach instead of Pay Pal. Or maybe he likes the Cuse b/c he's from New York. Or maybe he wants to learn something, and prefers being a genuine student athlete over being babied in a special dorm for 7 months without meaningful classroom instruction. Or maybe he doesn't like the idea of being platooned, or hanging out with rappers and money handlers. It's only a matter of time b/ the whole Ky house of cards comes down.

You're just arguing to argue at this point. You're bias against Kentucky is strong and that's fine, if you can't see why a player would want to play for Kentucky then you're just ignorant.

 

[jordoo]

It's a matter of opinion, we just happen to disagree. I honestly don't know what pt Dc would have gotten at Kentucky, but looking at the information available they seem to play the mcaa they get in, we have a history that they don't.

I wasn't a huge fan of DC when we recruited him and also cited his HS competition as weak but it doesn't mean Cal would have given him 12 minutes a game.

At Syracuse we have a goal and that is to win games no matter what, there's nothing wrong with that and we've been extremely successful at that even if it means not giving mcaa players big minutes their first year. At Kentucky it seems like they get more minutes and more opportunity, even if it means Kentucky is going to play in the NIT.

As a freshman DC2 would have been on a team with Noel/Cauley-Stein and Wiltjer
As a sophomore DC2 would have been on a team with Cauley-Stein, Johnson, Randle & Lee

If you think Cal isn't trying to win games you are a bit delusional IMO. Yes he is running his program much differently but there is generally a lack of upperclassmen so its not like he's chosing to play the younger guys more and develop them . . . . its more like those are the only guys he has to play.

 

[reedny]

With our academics the past few years I don't think it's really fair to be throwing the "student athlete" accusations at other teams.

Oh, it's absolutely fair. We have standards and kids actually have to attend real classes. When they don't, they get in trouble. Or when someone else writes their papers, they're disciplined -- because they're expected to act like student-athletes .. not prized beef just passing through. The very idea of a Ky BB player suspended for "academic" reasons is laughable.

Look, go right to the NBA if you want .. that's a dream for many kids. But if you're going to attend college, at least go to a real school, with legitimate classes, and real courses. Don't just posture for draft status and pretend for half a year. That's a big joke.

 

[Flintstones]

Our system is obviously not great for getting guys to the NBA if your citing Etan as a good example.

Etan played a decade in the league. Who since have we had with pro potential?-Watkins and Roc?

If we had Greg monroe or the pelican I'm sure they would have touched the ball more. Knowing Syracuse, if we had Cauley-Stein he probably would've bolted after his sophomore year

 

[reedny]

You're just arguing to argue at this point. You're bias against Kentucky is strong and that's fine, if you can't see why a player would want to play for Kentucky then you're just ignorant.

I never said I couldn't understand why any player would want to play for Kentucky. I can. If they don't want to go to class .. and simply want to posture for draft status ... Pay Pal might be a good choice.

The problem here is that YOU can't understand why any recruit would NOT want to attend Kentucky? Not the other way around.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Oh, it's absolutely fair. We have standards and kids actually have to attend real classes. When they don't, they get in trouble. Or when someone else writes their papers, they're disciplined -- because they're expected to act like student-athletes .. not prized beef just passing through. The very idea of a Ky BB player suspended for "academic" reasons is laughable.

Look, go right to the NBA if you want .. that's a dream for many kids. But if you're going to attend college, at least go to a real school, with legitimate classes, and real courses. Don't just posture for draft status and pretend for half a year. That's a big joke.

"Well we have alot of heresay and conjecture. Those are KINDS of evidence."

 

[reedny]

"Well we have alot of heresay and conjecture. Those are KINDA of evidence."

You're probably right. It's not public knowledge yet .. just widely rumored that Fab and Southy had some academic difficulties. However, there have been other cases in MBB and other sports -- so there are plenty of examples that SU enforces its academic requirements.

 

[Flintstones]

Back to the original topic. History says incoming freshman and whatever current high school juniors the 'cuse lands will not surpass our sophomores. By senior year we will have veteran athletic wings along with some guards and big men with experience. If we happen to have a one and done sandwiched in there you can dip me in gravy. I'll take that over the field.

We gun shock the woorld

 

[RF2044]

"Well we have alot of heresay and conjecture. Those are KINDS of evidence."

Simpson's quote?

 

[HOFCeluck]

Simpson's quote?

Yep. II think I can find one for any situation.

 

[two3zone]

I never said I couldn't understand why any player would want to play for Kentucky. I can. If they don't want to go to class .. and simply want to posture for draft status ... Pay Pal might be a good choice.

The problem here is that YOU can't understand why any recruit would NOT want to attend Kentucky? Not the other way around.

I understand why players want to play at other schools, all I'm saying is if I'm a big and have pro aspirations I don't see why somebody would choose Cuse over Kentucky. I don't think I'm as crazy saying that as you're trying to make me.