Recruiting over this year's team

[HOFCeluck]

I gave up on predicting the actions of seventeen year olds a long time ago. He probably thinks he's going to bounce after a year and for all I know he's going to base his decision on how hot the girls on campus are.

But seriously...I used to live in Lexington. I hope he doesn't use that as his metric.

 

[MCC]

I also strongly believe that Bryant has much more game readiness than Fab, Rak, or Coleman before him--another factor that greatly reduces the likelihood that he'd get sat after 3 minutes of play every game.

This.

Fab was a legit 7' but a total goof (with apparent anger management and perhaps culture adjustment issues).

Rak had zero offensive refinement - terrific athlete, but was never asked to score in HS.

Coleman was a Mack truck playing against a bunch of Priuses (Prii? Prions?). Needs wholesale revisions to his style as the physical advantages are no more.

Bryant is a fairly polished shooter and offensive player. He's like a half court / non-gazelle version of McCullough.

(That last part really makes no sense. Gazelle is what makes CMc = CMc.)

 

[CuseHulk]

I never said Bryant was automatically going to Kentucky. The only thing I've said over and over and over is that it's a bit premature to put Bryant in an Orange uniform and count him to be starting at the 5 next season.

No but you did say if you were him you would go to Kentucky.

I don't know what kinda of Syracuse fan would say that.

 

[HOFCeluck]

No but you did say if you were him you would go to Kentucky.

I don't know what kinda of Syracuse fan would say that.

One who tries to look at things objectively, whether you agree or not.

 

[two3zone]

No but you did say if you were him you would go to Kentucky. I don't know what kinda of Syracuse fan would say that.

And I would answer that with Kentucky 100 times out if 100 times. Could he be the first center to be a lottery pick for us in 20 years? Sure, maybe, but I'm willing to put my bet on another horse.

SU negatives:

Probation?
Handling's of past MDAA bigs
Draft history of past C.

Positives:

Close to home
Playing time shouldn't be an issue



Kentucky negatives:

Being part of a platoon.
Further away from family.


Positives:

Track record of success of centers/pf's signing pro contracts.

Coach who embraces the idea of his players going one and done.

Exposure. He will get it at the Cuse as well, but not like being at Kentucky.

 

[dyedorange]

No but you did say if you were him you would go to Kentucky.

I don't know what kinda of Syracuse fan would say that.

Someone can be a fan and also acknowledge that not every recruit is going to find SU to be the most desirable destination. That's just objective thinking and is not an indictment of our program at all. I'd love to land Bryant too, but the reality of his recruitment IS different than it was a few months ago, and it's fair game to speculate that he may choose UK over us.

 

[SBU72]

That's what I mean about it's close to home and I've read the comments from his mom. I've also read the comments from him calling the offer from Kentucky a blessing, visiting Rupp recently. Outside of momma bear I don't think there is any reason that he would choose SU over Kentucky.

I do hope he comes here and would love those odds, I just don't see it as that favorable as I did before.

Playing time. It may well depend how many from the 2 platoons return. That's at least 2 guys now ahead of him at any specific spot, and maybe more, depending if anybody else is playing out of position. At SU, it is hard to see if anybody is ahead of him.

 

[CuseHulk]

And I would answer that with Kentucky 100 times out if 100 times. Could he be the first center to be a lottery pick for us in 20 years? Sure, maybe, but I'm willing to put my bet on another horse.

SU negatives:

Probation?
Handling's of past MDAA bigs
Draft history of past C.

Positives:

Close to home
Playing time shouldn't be an issue



Kentucky negatives:

Being part of a platoon.
Further away from family.


Positives:

Track record of success of centers/pf's signing pro contracts.

Coach who embraces the idea of his players going one and done.

Exposure. He will get it at the Cuse as well, but not like being at Kentucky.

Fab Melo did become Big East defensive player of year sophomore season, and then a first round nba draft pick. Rakeem Christmas will be an NBA draft pick this year, and has gotten better each season. And DC2 career has been hampered by injuries, nothing you can no about that.We have had successful draft history with other positions. We put players in the NBA.

I think best if i put you on ignore, and you do the same to me. You are the type of fan i would hate sitting near at the game or at the bar. Between being pessimistic/negative and frankly just not knowing college basketball.

 

[two3zone]

Fab Melo did become Big East defensive player of year sophomore season, and then a first round nba draft pick. Rakeem Christmas will be an NBA draft pick this year, and has gotten better each season. And DC2 career has been hampered by injuries, nothing you can no about that.We have had successful draft history with other positions. We put players in the NBA. I think best if i put you on ignore, and you do the same to me. You are the type of fan i would hate sitting near at the game or at the bar. Between being pessimistic/negative and frankly just not knowing college basketball.

Lol. How am I pessimistic and negative?

I'm asking you who the last center we had that went in the lottery. I'm sure Kentucky had at least 5 during the time frame. If I'm a center in high school I'm looking at that information.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Fab Melo did become Big East defensive player of year sophomore season, and then a first round nba draft pick. Rakeem Christmas will be an NBA draft pick this year, and has gotten better each season. And DC2 career has been hampered by injuries, nothing you can no about that.We have had successful draft history with other positions. We put players in the NBA.

I think best if i put you on ignore, and you do the same to me. You are the type of fan i would hate sitting near at the game or at the bar. Between being pessimistic/negative and frankly just not knowing college basketball.

Dude you have to learn how to separate objective or realistic thinking VS the orange colored goggled approach. None of this makes one of us a lesser fan to say that Kentucky is far superior in producing solid NBA bigs. Bigs who STAY in the league. I mean I almost spit out my drink when I saw your argument for Syracuse in this matter.

DeMarcus Cousins, Terrence Jones, Patrick Patterson, Orton, Noel, Harrellson. Willy Cauley-Stein has made some terrific improvements and he will be a first round pick. Those are just some of the names.

 

[Brooky03]

Can we please stop pretending that playing for Kentucky gets a one-and-done's draft stock bumped up higher than being a one-and-done on any elite level basketball team? Stats are stats. If you can be dominant at Kentucky, you can be dominant anywhere else. Yes, Kentucky is the sexy pick but no level-headed recruit (A crazy assumption, I know) is going to say, "well, Kentucky will get me in the lottery, whereas my production at another major school won't count as much because I'm not in a Kentucky uniform; I better just be safe and go to Kentucky. After all, nobody else has ever produced a lottery pick."

Also, stop ignoring our lottery picks that weren't Centers. Put simply, we haven't had great Centers. Rak and Coleman wouldn't have been lottery picks anywhere else. Again, it's debatable whether or not recruits realize this, but that doesn't change the fact that our coaches didn't somehow hold them back. And we've shown a strong ability to produce lottery picks over the last 5 seasons.

Rak's production this year should show to Bryant that a Center can be very productive in our system. And no, the fact that Rak needed to wait to get this shot, shouldn't indicate to Bryant that he'll have to wait. He should know and know that the coaches know he'll be ready from day one.

 

[two3zone]

Can we please stop pretending that playing for Kentucky gets a one-and-done's draft stock bumped up higher than being a one-and-done on any elite level basketball team? Stats are stats. If you can be dominant at Kentucky, you can be dominant anywhere else. Yes, Kentucky is the s e xy pick but no level-headed recruit (A crazy assumption, I know) is going to say, "well, Kentucky will get me in the lottery, whereas my production at another major school won't count as much because I'm not in a Kentucky uniform; I better just be safe and go to Kentucky. After all, nobody else has ever produced a lottery pick." Also, stop ignoring our lottery picks that weren't Centers. Put simply, we haven't had great Centers. Rak and Coleman wouldn't have been lottery picks anywhere else. Again, it's debatable whether or not recruits realize this, but that doesn't change the fact that our coaches didn't somehow hold them back. And we've shown a strong ability to produce lottery picks over the last 5 seasons. Rak's production this year should show to Bryant that a Center can be very productive in our system. And no, the fact that Rak needed to wait to get this shot, shouldn't indicate to Bryant that he'll have to wait. He should know and know that the coaches know he'll be ready from day one.

I hear you and your argument but I am going to disagree with it doesn't matter what school you go to.

You have to account for position when in this situation. DC2 and Rak both mcdonalds aa, not saying they were candidates to be lottery picks out the shoot, but an argument can be made if they had other opportunities they could have left after two years.

It's all speculation, I don't know if I'm right and can't prove that I am, I don't know if you're right and you can't prove that you are either. There's really nothing else to say other than we have a difference of opinion on matter.

 

[sufandu]

Back to the OP and not whether we're going to get certain recruits. Are we really asking this question? Haven't we learned our lesson? We have no clue how any of these high school kids are going to be when they play their first college game. Wasn't it just last year some people were saying they couldn't wait for Joseph to get here so we could be more up tempo? Now he's overwhelmed and turnover prone. Some of these guys may get to campus and be studs, but they may also struggle. It's silly to anoint any them as being better than our current sophomores while they're still in high school.

 

[jordoo]

I'm not much of a believer in programs/coaches turning players into lottery picks. Generally lottery picks are early entry players and are being chosen on measurable and potential or they are simply a very talent underclassman that came of age as a freshman or sophomore and exhibited basketball skills to go with their physical talents. Sure programs can help with visibility and coaches can coach up a kid or run a system that helps them but they aren't creating an NBA lottery pick IMO. They are simply fostering what is already there and maybe boosting it a little bit. Over 3 or 4 years some programs turn guys into NBA picks that have a chance to make a living in the association but that becomes more and more rare these days.

 

[Brooky03]

I hear you and your argument but I am going to disagree with it doesn't matter what school you go to.

You have to account for position when in this situation. DC2 and Rak both mcdonalds aa, not saying they were candidates to be lottery picks out the shoot, but an argument can be made if they had other opportunities they could have left after two years.

It's all speculation, I don't know if I'm right and can't prove that I am, I don't know if you're right and you can't prove that you are either. There's really nothing else to say other than we have a difference of opinion on matter.

Agree to disagree.

Just to simplify, for anybody that cares, my argument comes down to the fact that Kentucky didn't do anything extraordinary or special with those big men to get them drafted highly. They just landed guys who were at a level above the other top recruits. For example, you have McDonald's All-Americans who are talked about in terms of how they'll do in college, and then you have McDonald's All-Americans who are talked about in terms of how they'll do in the NBA. We've landed the former, Kentucky's landed the latter.

Bryant is in Rochester, which has a ton of Syracuse fans so you know he probably grew up a Syracuse fan and you know he's probably getting a lot of pressure to go there from friends. Also, according to his mother, Kentucky isn't even in his final two; he's between Indiana and Syracuse, and we all know how terrible Indiana's future is looking with Crean-hole.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Fab Melo did become Big East defensive player of year sophomore season, and then a first round nba draft pick. Rakeem Christmas will be an NBA draft pick this year, and has gotten better each season. And DC2 career has been hampered by injuries, nothing you can no about that.We have had successful draft history with other positions. We put players in the NBA.

I think best if i put you on ignore, and you do the same to me. You are the type of fan i would hate sitting near at the game or at the bar. Between being pessimistic/negative and frankly just not knowing college basketball.

You are seriously not in touch with reality. What's it like?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Dude you have to learn how to separate objective or realistic thinking VS the orange colored goggled approach. None of this makes one of us a lesser fan to say that Kentucky is far superior in producing solid NBA bigs. Bigs who STAY in the league. I mean I almost spit out my drink when I saw your argument for Syracuse in this matter.

DeMarcus Cousins, Terrence Jones, Patrick Patterson, Orton, Noel, Harrellson. Willy Cauley-Stein has made some terrific improvements and he will be a first round pick. Those are just some of the names.

Some guy named Anthony Davis.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Agree to disagree.
my argument comes down to the fact that Kentucky didn't do anything extraordinary or special with those big men to get them drafted highly. They just landed guys who were at a level above the other top recruits.

Perception. Kentucky is constantly on the front page of ESPN. You get a UK offer and you slide up a couple of spots on the prospect rankings. NBA execs can be wowed just like anyone else.

But I also think that Calipari can coach his ass off. He turns quite a few less impressive players into first rounders, too.

 

[Eagles20]

I hear you and your argument but I am going to disagree with it doesn't matter what school you go to.

You have to account for position when in this situation. DC2 and Rak both mcdonalds aa, not saying they were candidates to be lottery picks out the shoot, but an argument can be made if they had other opportunities they could have left after two years.

It's all speculation, I don't know if I'm right and can't prove that I am, I don't know if you're right and you can't prove that you are either. There's really nothing else to say other than we have a difference of opinion on matter.

Would like to add Calipari system allows bigs to succeed more that JB guard oriented offense the past few years. You can't tell me christmas developed these post moves just over the summer. He has been underutilized at least the past two years. He fought his butt off last year to get postion and didn't see the ball. Coleman choosing syracuse was a bad fit for him as well. He doesn't have the lateral movement to play the middle of the zone and because of it when he was healthy got pulled because of his defense.

 

[Brooky03]

Perception. Kentucky is constantly on the front page of ESPN. You get a UK offer and you slide up a couple of spots on the prospect rankings. NBA execs can be wowed just like anyone else.

But I also think that Calipari can coach his ass off. He turns quite a few less impressive players into first rounders, too.

Less impressive relative to what, though? Relative to recruits ranked in the top 5?

Not saying he can't coach, he can, but he's a better recruiter than X's and O's or development guy.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Less impressive relative to what, though? Relative to recruits ranked in the top 5?

Not saying he can't coach, he can, but he's a better recruiter than X's and O's or development guy.

Willie Cauley Stein for one. He was no different than Rakeem Christmas. Had the size and talent, but had no idea what to do with it on the court. Now, after just two years, he may be a lottery pick.

 

[Dave85]

Less impressive relative to what, though? Relative to recruits ranked in the top 5?

Not saying he can't coach, he can, but he's a better recruiter than X's and O's or development guy.

UK is probably padding relatives account with $$. Samething with KU. I don't know how these schools keeping getting 5-star recruits every year.

But in many ways I would rather have a bunch of good 4-star recruits every year that spend all 4 years at school. Then by the time they are juniors and seniors they know our system of defense really well. And hopefuly our 4-star senior is playing better than a 5-star freshmen. That's how <school-not-to-be-spoken-of> has won their last two national championships.

 

[Eagles20]

Less impressive relative to what, though? Relative to recruits ranked in the top 5?

Not saying he can't coach, he can, but he's a better recruiter than X's and O's or development guy.

I disagree with the development assesment...he develops a lot of his kids quickly. Marquis Teague was not good the first two months at Kentucky. Early in the year miller was used to bring up the ball against pressure...by the end of the year Teague controlled that offense from a point guard position. He also gives his kids a lot more rope to make mistakes without being pulled quickly. Lee and Johnson improved a lot from beginning of season to end. They both were significant contributors in the NCAA tournament last year. Heck even Anthony Davis went from glue guy all defense to a pretty good offensive player before he left kentucky. He was going top 5 regardless,but I think he really improved over his one season at UK.

Like to add my friend is a big kentucky fan so I watch a lot of their games...I am a syracuse fan through and through before I get hammered for speaking decently about the evil empire

 

[Eagles20]

UK is probably padding relatives account with $$. Samething with KU. I don't know how these schools keeping getting 5-star recruits every year.

But in many ways I would rather have a bunch of good 4-star recruits every year that spend all 4 years at school. Then by the time they are juniors and seniors they know our system of defense really well. And hopefuly our 4-star senior is playing better than a 5-star freshmen. That's how <school-not-to-be-spoken-of> has won their last two national championships.

Kentucky does because Calipari hypes his players like no other and supports the one and done. He is all about getting these athletes to the pros as quickly as possible. He even shows up on draft day to support and show his face. That helps recruitment significantly. He also added this year a day where scouts come to see his players go through work outs like a combine.

 

[dasher]

I didn't say it never happens I'm just saying it doesn't happen all the time.

Cooney came here because of Christmas? McCullough came here because of Patterson? And Richardson is coming here because of Roberson? The Flynn and Scoop ones, sure, but sorry you're reaching with the other three.

I think it was the other way around. X-mas came here because of Cooney and someone else. G-town had been on x-mas forever and we came in and swooped him.