Recruiting Strategy - 4 & 5 Stars...

[phil77]

The only thing I can really fault the staff for is the "putting all our eggs in one basket" approach. If you do that approach you better be able to pull out all the stops and land those type of recruits. We turned away a number of PGs that could have really helped this class and team. Losing a recruit to Duke or UK isn't the end of the world. Getting stringed along and dropping contact with all the other recruits is the problem.

 

[phil77]

Re: Tucker we were hot and cold and hot with him. We recruited him hard. Someone on the staff didn't like him off the court and decided to end all talks with the kid and move on. Then all the sudden we were back in with this kid and his #1 option. That tells me he is all about going to the biggest named school he can get. Duke offered which is one of the few bigger name schools and he bolted. We didn't develope a long standing relationship with kid like Green. So I don't blame the staff or kid on this one.

 

[two3zone]

Totally disagree with this take. It certainly isn't affecting Notre Dame. Our facilities are better than theirs and Miami's. Facilities and being in the north have zero to do with bad recruiting strategy. We weren't signing guys Duke and UK targeted when we were in the Big East. We were just as good as Louisville in the old Big East. We were the top 2 programs before the merger. If this was true those programs would be struggling as well.

The way I see it is, there are 100 top 100 guys, at the most Duke and UK are getting 24 of them. That's 76 extra guys that we can compete with other schools for. Problem is, how many of those 76 are in the north east?

Our strategy used to work, it doesn't any more and the past few years is proof of that.

JB used to be an innovator and was seemingly always ahead of the curve. I don't think he is anymore, he is not adapting with the times and I think that's where the recruiting problem lies.

I'm tough on Gmac but the more I think about it I think our biggest flaw is our strategy.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The way I see it is, there are 100 top 100 guys, at the most Duke and UK are getting 24 of them. That's 76 extra guys that we can compete with other schools for. Problem is, how many of those 76 are in the north east?

Our strategy used to work, it doesn't any more and the past few years is proof of that.

JB used to be an innovator and was seemingly always ahead of the curve. I don't think he is anymore, he is not adapting with the times and I think that's where the recruiting problem lies.

I'm tough on Gmac but the more I think about it I think our biggest flaw is our strategy.

I'd say probably 15-20 of those guys.

The Isaiah Washingtons, Lonnie Walkers, Shai Alexanders, and Brandon Randolphs should have been doable this cycle.

Heck there's a kid right now playing the wing for CIA Bounce that I have zero clue why we haven't offered.

 

[GooseMutt]

Circumstances change. We are no longer one of the top teams in the top conference like we were in the old Big East. Northern teams do not fair well in what is basically a southern conference. The Dome is no longer in a class by itself. The Melo Center is a feather in our cap but it is not unique. Some of our facilities (locker rooms, dorms) are second rate compared to the top echelon. Other P-5 teams are reinvesting to constantly upgrade their facilities. It is no surprise that we have never had as many strikeouts as we now have.

We HAVE to be competitive on all levels We are ina new sandboxwith no pail and shovel It is now so clear why JB wasn't thrilled about joining ACC . All the dynamics changed and he knew they would.

 

[phil77]

The way I see it is, there are 100 top 100 guys, at the most Duke and UK are getting 24 of them. That's 76 extra guys that we can compete with other schools for. Problem is, how many of those 76 are in the north east?

Our strategy used to work, it doesn't any more and the past few years is proof of that.

JB used to be an innovator and was seemingly always ahead of the curve. I don't think he is anymore, he is not adapting with the times and I think that's where the recruiting problem lies.

I'm tough on Gmac but the more I think about it I think our biggest flaw is our strategy.

I think last year we had a real good class. Don't know why we are knocking a Battle-Moyer-Thompson class. Those are the type of class our kids have come to expect...

The problem we have with the new class is we put our eggs in the Green basket. Say we went Matt Coleman instead and we threw out a class of...

Coleman - Brissett - Sidibe I think that is another solid class. We lacking shooters? Sure but that would have been another good class is it ground breaking? No but it would have been a solid class building on the Battle-Moyer-Thompson class. Problem is they played around with Green for what seemed like 4 years and never got a commitment then told everyone else to kick bricks.

 

[two3zone]

I think last year we had a real good class. Don't know why we are knocking a Battle-Moyer-Thompson class. Those are the type of class our kids have come to expect...

The problem we have with the new class is we put our eggs in the Green basket. Say we went Matt Coleman instead and we threw out a class of...

Coleman - Brissett - Sidibe I think that is another solid class. We lacking shooters? Sure but that would have been another good class is it ground breaking? No but it would have been a solid class building on the Battle-Moyer-Thompson class. Problem is they played around with Green for what seemed like 4 years and never got a commitment then told everyone else to kick bricks.

Until TT plays any sort of defense I'm not going to throw him out there like a two and done like everybody else. His defense is so bad it negates almost every positive he does on the court.

As for Moyer, he needs to play a minute or two before we can start calling him a success.

We've had many great players come in and leave, but it's the surrounding players that we've absolutely missed on.

 

[JazzNC]

We lost lots of guys this class. It hurts. But we can feel sorry for ourselves or get back to work.

That brings me to this article written by Axe today. I agree and disagree at the same time. IF Syracuse can reel a big fish in then... awesome catch. Kudos to the staff.

BUT if SU were to catch a 3 1/2 to 4 star fish who is willing to sign, SU should not throw him back in the water to wait for the BIG fish that may or may not be reeled home.

BIG fish are tough to land and often break the line when the likes of Cal and Coach K come along and cut the line.

In other words, fish for those 3 1/2 to 4 star fish, and don't hold out for the BIG guy only to be left with neither.

The article by Axe is a bit too black and white and simplistic in my opinion.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Totally disagree with this take. It certainly isn't affecting Notre Dame. Our facilities are better than theirs and Miami's. Facilities and being in the north have zero to do with bad recruiting strategy. We weren't signing guys Duke and UK targeted when we were in the Big East. We were just as good as Louisville in the old Big East. We were the top 2 programs before the merger. If this was true those programs would be struggling as well.

The Yum Center is brand new. THey have a climate advantage compared to us as an ACC member. IF you wanted to play in the big east in a relevant school you accepted crummy weather. And, they are cheaters. Notre dame is another story. They are somewhat unique. In any case, aspiring to their level, would be for us to accept defeat.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The Yum Center is brand new. THey have a climate advantage compared to us as an ACC member. IF you wanted to play in the big east in a relevant school you accepted crummy weather. And, they are cheaters. Notre dame is another story. They are somewhat unique. In any case, aspiring to their level, would be for us to accept defeat.

Notre Dame has won more ACC games and more tournament games than us over the past 3 years. Not sure how that's accepting defeat. If you want to pick on them for not getting to the FF I agree with you there.

Nobody could turn VPI's crappy facilities into wins until Bud got there either.

The dome is still a big selling point for big games IMO and given the right staff it can be sold.

I think your coming up with excuses that can be got around to be honest. Each school is unique.

I just don't think JB is doing a good of a job the past couple years as he did say 7 or 8 years ago. That's our main problem and I've stuck up for him in the past.

 

[bnoro]

It sure feels like the staff thinks they are UK and Duke, I couldn't believe the Swider article when I scrolled through that today. How in the world are we not pushing hard for his commitment? He said some awesome things in that article that really impressed me with how he carries himself and gives off this loyalty vibe that we could really use soon. He doesn't seem like he's a Duke or UK type player so he's not waiting for those 2 schools to offer, he brought the list to 8 and seems to want to be done with the recruiting process after he takes his OVs, then he will be ready to make his decision. The only thing I can come to reason with is that he's a plan B but if that's the case I'd really love to hear who plan A is. I know the staff is still worried about the 2017 class and reasonably so but they can't neglect a kid that is getting the full court press from certain schools and has one of the best shooting strokes in the 2018 class. Sure I know we aren't Duke or UK as that has been a hot topic of the board as of late but we are Syracuse and I for one thinks that means something, recruiting still requires giving 15/16/17/18 year olds attention whether you are Cuse or Duke/UK.

We're pushing hard for Swider. Jesus Christ. We're very much alive in that recruitment, stop basing your ramblings off a single article. Talk about knee jerk.

 

[007]

Until TT plays any sort of defense I'm not going to throw him out there like a two and done like everybody else. His defense is so bad it negates almost every positive he does on the court.

As for Moyer, he needs to play a minute or two before we can start calling him a success.

We've had many great players come in and leave, but it's the surrounding players that we've absolutely missed on.

With regard to TT declaring in 2018, I have a feeling the deciding factor will have less to do with how the outside world views his defense, and more to do with how TT (and his mother, btw) view his readiness.

 

[two3zone]

With regard to TT declaring in 2018, I have a feeling the deciding factor will have less to do with how the outside world views his defense, and more to do with how TT (and his mother, btw) view his readiness.

Hope mom doesn't think that the ability of hitting a mid range jumper is all you need in the NBA.

 

[OrangeDW]

Circumstances change. We are no longer one of the top teams in the top conference like we were in the old Big East. Northern teams do not fair well in what is basically a southern conference. The Dome is no longer in a class by itself. The Melo Center is a feather in our cap but it is not unique. Some of our facilities (locker rooms, dorms) are second rate compared to the top echelon. Other P-5 teams are reinvesting to constantly upgrade their facilities. It is no surprise that we have never had as many strikeouts as we now have.

1. Are there any circumstances of top notch northern programs joining southern leagues and not fairing well? As far as I can think, this is a new scenario, so I have no idea where you got that from.

2. The Dome hasn't been the nicest, newest place in 30 years. It's still the biggest though, and is one of the iconic college bball arenas.

 

[Cuse9292]

We're pushing hard for Swider. Jesus Christ. We're very much alive in that recruitment, stop basing your ramblings off a single article. Talk about knee jerk.

Well any Joe Dick or Harry can say that, prove it.

 

[bnoro]

Well any Joe Dick or Harry can say that, prove it.

And this is why people with inside info don't post here anymore.

 

[Jasoncuse]

The way I see it is, there are 100 top 100 guys, at the most Duke and UK are getting 24 of them. That's 76 extra guys that we can compete with other schools for. Problem is, how many of those 76 are in the north east?

Our strategy used to work, it doesn't any more and the past few years is proof of that.

JB used to be an innovator and was seemingly always ahead of the curve. I don't think he is anymore, he is not adapting with the times and I think that's where the recruiting problem lies.

I'm tough on Gmac but the more I think about it I think our biggest flaw is our strategy.

It's hard to argue against that.

From all indications, we limit ourselves to:
- Kids that aren't too far away
- Kids that are physical fits for the 2-3
- Focusing on a small handful of players instead of casting a wider net

Maybe you can throw in Gmac being the face of our recruiting too, but I don't know how true that is. When we don't land somebody that is from those buckets, we're left with fewer and fewer options, it seems.

 

[Cuse9292]

And this is why people with inside info don't post here anymore.

Since I have joined this board, all I see you do is post smart remarks when people tweet at recruits or telling me I'm an idiot about worrying about Swider and we are pushing hard, obviously I don't have inside info on this but reading between the lines we aren't pushing hard AS hard as Xavier or Creighton or he would've said "they're contacting me everyday and are trying to establish relationships with the family members I care about". If you wanted to be an "insider" a simple "he's a top priority" would have done, I don't expect you to give up your sources but you don't have to be rude and drive others away just because they are new to the board. When I initially posted I got the vibe from the 1st article that he wants to narrow it down and get the recruiting process over and what do you know, he's going to cut it down to 3 soon, he's not a kid that wants to play games and he wants to be loyal, I'd be shocked if we were in the top 3, of course unless you would like to tell me differently.

 

[bnoro]

Since I have joined this board, all I see you do is post smart remarks when people tweet at recruits or telling me I'm an idiot about worrying about Swider and we are pushing hard, obviously I don't have inside info on this but reading between the lines we aren't pushing hard AS hard as Xavier or Creighton or he would've said "they're contacting me everyday and are trying to establish relationships with the family members I care about". If you wanted to be an "insider" a simple "he's a top priority" would have done, I don't expect you to give up your sources but you don't have to be rude and drive others away just because they are new to the board. When I initially posted I got the vibe from the 1st article that he wants to narrow it down and get the recruiting process over and what do you know, he's going to cut it down to 3 soon, he's not a kid that wants to play games and he wants to be loyal, I'd be shocked if we were in the top 3, of course unless you would like to tell me differently.

Because rather than coming to the board and getting a feel for subjects and recruiting, you've been essentially on each thread screaming that the sky is falling and rehashing things. You can inform yourself by reading many of the great posters here like Francis and Dasher and Jake and TinyManInside.

My advice is this. Read the threads. Read other sites. If you have a good point or interesting question, ask it. But posting the same things over and over again, asking the same questions over and over again, and questioning people who might have some information isn't a good way to endear yourself to the locals. I (and others on this board) run out of patience for people who beat dead horses or create threads for people that we aren't recruiting or aren't interested in. Tweeting at recruits is a violation, whether it's enforced or not by the NCAA.

Think of it as going to a new school for the first time. Are you going to go in yelling at people or are you going to get to know the posters? Sorry if you think i'm being a dick, but I'm pretty blunt when I post.

 

[Cuse9292]

Because rather than coming to the board and getting a feel for subjects and recruiting, you've been essentially on each thread screaming that the sky is falling and rehashing things. You can inform yourself by reading many of the great posters here like Francis and Dasher and Jake and TinyManInside.

My advice is this. Read the threads. Read other sites. If you have a good point or interesting question, ask it. But posting the same things over and over again, asking the same questions over and over again, and questioning people who might have some information isn't a good way to endear yourself to the locals. I (and others on this board) run out of patience for people who beat dead horses or create threads for people that we aren't recruiting or aren't interested in. Tweeting at recruits is a violation, whether it's enforced or not by the NCAA.

Think of it as going to a new school for the first time. Are you going to go in yelling at people or are you going to get to know the posters? Sorry if you think i'm being a dick, but I'm pretty blunt when I post.

Essentially gone to each thread and screaming? I have been reading the threads and that's why I really didn't post much off the start as I was catching up on all of the latest happenings, you're including me with people that frequently post repeating themselves time and time again, that is not even close to what I do, I know who you're referring too and you couldn't be more wrong with that statement. I'm very calm with the situation as this is a marathon not a sprint, I'm very confident in our staff to develop talent but it's no secret that the recruiting landscape has changed and we just lost our lead recruiter along with having an older coach with an expiration date and that's not going to be favorable while going up against the big boys, I love the staff members but every person in this world has flaws and they are no different, those flaws get put under a magnifying glass at a program like this and you're going to have these "trolls" everywhere, my advice to you is ignore it because it's going to happen regardless, especially on a free forum.

While I'm in complete agreement nobody should be beating a dead horse, in my short time here I've seen that regularly and doubt it changes, I don't necessarily think they are idiotic people, I would imagine they are impulsive and can't control it. Along with loving Syracuse Football I spent a decent part of my youth with my grandmother in Lakeland, Florida which up until a little bit ago was a University of Florida Football factory so I have a soft spot for UF as well and I see it everyday and then some with SEC Football fans, they literally can't help themselves, they are GREAT people but can't control the urge to express their passion in the correct way. Again with SEC Football I might have a little bias with the whole tweeting recruits thing as it is pretty common and over the years I've seen the good, the great, the dumb, the ugly, I hate seeing negative tweets to recruits but when you see an attention seeker (like Tucker) then you give him attention. I would imagine it's illegal to contact recruits if you're involved with that particular program, it makes absolute no sense for tweeting at recruits to be illegal when the individual has no affiliation with the school, if it's just in general then the NCAA flat out lost then as this happens thousands of times per day. The NCAA can't even control certain ACC and SEC schools regularly providing benefits to these recruits and their families, there was a rumor that Clemson was trying to get the Dad of Xavier Thomas out of jail early, the NCAA is a mess.

I'm not trying to get into arguments like this as we do share the same love for Syracuse, alum or not, but I will stand up for myself when I think someone is in the wrong though and for you to say I go in every thread screaming is ridiculous, I have 83 posts for christ sake and most of them are just trying understand the recruitment of certain individuals. I love this passionate program and take pride in our fan base, some people take different approaches and approaches that I don't agree with but that is what they believe.

I will apologize for saying any Joe, Dick, or Harry can say that but your post sparked an irrational reaction and I think you took the post the wrong way, I was just trying to clarify if Swider was a TOP target because he seems to have a level head on his shoulders and wants to get this process out of the way rather then enjoying the process which is the norm these days.

 

[bnoro]

Essentially gone to each thread and screaming? I have been reading the threads and that's why I really didn't post much off the start as I was catching up on all of the latest happenings, you're including me with people that frequently post repeating themselves time and time again, that is not even close to what I do, I know who you're referring too and you couldn't be more wrong with that statement. I'm very calm with the situation as this is a marathon not a sprint, I'm very confident in our staff to develop talent but it's no secret that the recruiting landscape has changed and we just lost our lead recruiter along with having an older coach with an expiration date and that's not going to be favorable while going up against the big boys, I love the staff members but every person in this world has flaws and they are no different, those flaws get put under a magnifying glass at a program like this and you're going to have these "trolls" everywhere, my advice to you is ignore it because it's going to happen regardless, especially on a free forum.

While I'm in complete agreement nobody should be beating a dead horse, in my short time here I've seen that regularly and doubt it changes, I don't necessarily think they are idiotic people, I would imagine they are impulsive and can't control it. Along with loving Syracuse Football I spent a decent part of my youth with my grandmother in Lakeland, Florida which up until a little bit ago was a University of Florida Football factory so I have a soft spot for UF as well and I see it everyday and then some with SEC Football fans, they literally can't help themselves, they are GREAT people but can't control the urge to express their passion in the correct way. Again with SEC Football I might have a little bias with the whole tweeting recruits thing as it is pretty common and over the years I've seen the good, the great, the dumb, the ugly, I hate seeing negative tweets to recruits but when you see an attention seeker (like Tucker) then you give him attention. I would imagine it's illegal to contact recruits if you're involved with that particular program, it makes absolute no sense for tweeting at recruits to be illegal when the individual has no affiliation with the school, if it's just in general then the NCAA flat out lost then as this happens thousands of times per day. The NCAA can't even control certain ACC and SEC schools regularly providing benefits to these recruits and their families, there was a rumor that Clemson was trying to get the Dad of Xavier Thomas out of jail early, the NCAA is a mess.

I'm not trying to get into arguments like this as we do share the same love for Syracuse, alum or not, but I will stand up for myself when I think someone is in the wrong though and for you to say I go in every thread screaming is ridiculous, I have 83 posts for christ sake and most of them are just trying understand the recruitment of certain individuals. I love this passionate program and take pride in our fan base, some people take different approaches and approaches that I don't agree with but that is what they believe.

I will apologize for saying any Joe, Dick, or Harry can say that but your post sparked an irrational reaction and I think you took the post the wrong way, I was just trying to clarify if Swider was a TOP target because he seems to have a level head on his shoulders and wants to get this process out of the way rather then enjoying the process which is the norm these days.

Fair enough, man. We're all Cuse fans here.