Recruiting Strategy - 4 & 5 Stars...

[newmexicuse]

Well, hindsight is 100%. It is now apparent that Duke & Kentucky & probably another half a dozen programs or so can walk in at the last minute and steal almost any recruit from us at almost any time regardless of how long and how much energy we have put into a kid.

In the past, it is true that if we started at ground zero against those types of programs we would not get too many wins; however, if we had a 1 to 2 year head start we could generally hold onto kids who became Syracuse leans. No longer - or at least so it appears.

Everyone here, myself included, has spoken about Plan B's if we don't get these kids. I think the real problem is now with the Plan A. Nothing wrong with us making a run at these kids even if the success rate turns out to be pretty low. The problem is that w are targeting these kids to fill big holes in our roster. Last year - PG - this year outside shooter. We simply can't allow these holes to exist in the first place. When we identify a hole or potential hole on our roster the first order of business has to be get that hole filled with an acceptable level of talent. I am all for going after the big fish, but we can no longer do that to fill holes. Getting the kahunas has to be in the context of roster enhancement and not roster neccessity.

It may not be so much that the college desirability pecking order has changed as much as it is that the gap between the 1A Knetucky, Duke, Kansas types of programs and the 1B types of programs (that hopefully still includes us) has widened.

 

[SU94]

Well, hindsight is 100%. It is now apparent that Duke & Kentucky & probably another half a dozen programs or so can walk in at the last minute and steal almost any recruit from us at almost any time regardless of how long and how much energy we have put into a kid.

In the past, it is true that if we started at ground zero against those types of programs we would not get too many wins; however, if we had a 1 to 2 year head start we could generally hold onto kids who became Syracuse leans. No longer - or at least so it appears.

Everyone here, myself included, has spoken about Plan B's if we don't get these kids. I think the real problem is now with the Plan A. Nothing wrong with us making a run at these kids even if the success rate turns out to be pretty low. The problem is that w are targeting these kids to fill big holes in our roster. Last year - PG - this year outside shooter. We simply can't allow these holes to exist in the first place. When we identify a hole or potential hole on our roster the first order of business has to be get that hole filled with an acceptable level of talent. I am all for going after the big fish, but we can no longer do that to fill holes. Getting the kahunas has to be in the context of roster enhancement and not roster neccessity.

It may not be so much that the college desirability pecking order has changed as much as it is that the gap between the 1A Knetucky, Duke, Kansas types of programs and the 1B types of programs (that hopefully still includes us) has widened.

I blame it on LeBron. And I am only half kidding.

 

[dasher]

Well, hindsight is 100%. It is now apparent that Duke & Kentucky & probably another half a dozen programs or so can walk in at the last minute and steal almost any recruit from us at almost any time regardless of how long and how much energy we have put into a kid.

In the past, it is true that if we started at ground zero against those types of programs we would not get too many wins; however, if we had a 1 to 2 year head start we could generally hold onto kids who became Syracuse leans. No longer - or at least so it appears.

Everyone here, myself included, has spoken about Plan B's if we don't get these kids. I think the real problem is now with the Plan A. Nothing wrong with us making a run at these kids even if the success rate turns out to be pretty low. The problem is that w are targeting these kids to fill big holes in our roster. Last year - PG - this year outside shooter. We simply can't allow these holes to exist in the first place. When we identify a hole or potential hole on our roster the first order of business has to be get that hole filled with an acceptable level of talent. I am all for going after the big fish, but we can no longer do that to fill holes. Getting the kahunas has to be in the context of roster enhancement and not roster neccessity.

It may not be so much that the college desirability pecking order has changed as much as it is that the gap between the 1A Knetucky, Duke, Kansas types of programs and the 1B types of programs (that hopefully still includes us) has widened.

Another half dozen? And who might they be? That is complete nonsense. There are two. Kentucky and Duke. And they can't do it every time. Let's not blow this out of proportion.

 

[Cuse9292]

It sure feels like the staff thinks they are UK and Duke, I couldn't believe the Swider article when I scrolled through that today. How in the world are we not pushing hard for his commitment? He said some awesome things in that article that really impressed me with how he carries himself and gives off this loyalty vibe that we could really use soon. He doesn't seem like he's a Duke or UK type player so he's not waiting for those 2 schools to offer, he brought the list to 8 and seems to want to be done with the recruiting process after he takes his OVs, then he will be ready to make his decision. The only thing I can come to reason with is that he's a plan B but if that's the case I'd really love to hear who plan A is. I know the staff is still worried about the 2017 class and reasonably so but they can't neglect a kid that is getting the full court press from certain schools and has one of the best shooting strokes in the 2018 class. Sure I know we aren't Duke or UK as that has been a hot topic of the board as of late but we are Syracuse and I for one thinks that means something, recruiting still requires giving 15/16/17/18 year olds attention whether you are Cuse or Duke/UK.

 

[Cuse'91]

Another half dozen? And who might they be? That is complete nonsense. There are two. Kentucky and Duke. And they can't do it every time. Let's not blow this out of proportion.

Proof to me is if we can pull in Carey against the likes of Kansas, and Swider...
Not very confident we can win a head to head vs. Kansas, Arizona, or UNC nowadays...
Throw in the fact that more programs seen to be recruiting well in today's market, e.g. Alabama, Miami, Notre Dame, UCLA, Villanova, even W. Kentucky...

 

[dasher]

Proof to me is if we can pull in Carey against the likes of Kansas, and Swider...
Not very confident we can win a head to head vs. Kansas, Arizona, or UNC nowadays...
Throw in the fact that more programs seen to be recruiting well in today's market, e.g. Alabama, Miami, Notre Dame, UCLA, Villanova, even W. Kentucky...

Nova has recruited horribly according to the recruiting services over the last half dozen years. And UNC has been down as well. According to the recruiting services.

 

[Cuse'91]

Nova has recruited horribly according to the recruiting services over the last half dozen years. And UNC has been down as well. According to the recruiting services.

Villanova plays guards; guards tend to be able to dribble, pass, and shoot... Give me as many of those guys on the floor at any one time...
UNC has been down for UNC, still top tier imo...

 

[dasher]

Villanova plays guards; guards tend to be able to dribble, pass, and shoot... Give me as many of those guys on the floor at any one time...
UNC has been down for UNC, still top tier imo...

How they play isn't recruiting.

 

[Cuse'91]

How they play isn't recruiting.

Huh? So how you play, doesn't affect recruiting?
Better not tell JB that...
Nova goes after a stud big, and then gets ball players on the perimeter...

 

[GooseMutt]

Another half dozen? And who might they be? That is complete nonsense. There are two. Kentucky and Duke. And they can't do it every time. Let's not blow this out of proportion.

The one thing I find disturbing is recently the guys we are in play to get have St Johns and Seton Hall on their lists and I'm thinking how the hell are we now up against them.

 

[dasher]

Huh? So how you play, doesn't affect recruiting?
Better not tell JB that...
Nova goes after a stud big, and then gets ball players on the perimeter...

you brought up Nova. They don't get top 5 star talent. They do get players that fit what they want to do. but that wasn't your original point. you were talking about recruiting blue chip players. Nova's recruiting hasn't been "good". At least by the recruiting mavens.

 

[Jzsshuttles]

Well, hindsight is 100%. It is now apparent that Duke & Kentucky & probably another half a dozen programs or so can walk in at the last minute and steal almost any recruit from us at almost any time regardless of how long and how much energy we have put into a kid.

In the past, it is true that if we started at ground zero against those types of programs we would not get too many wins; however, if we had a 1 to 2 year head start we could generally hold onto kids who became Syracuse leans. No longer - or at least so it appears.

Everyone here, myself included, has spoken about Plan B's if we don't get these kids. I think the real problem is now with the Plan A. Nothing wrong with us making a run at these kids even if the success rate turns out to be pretty low. The problem is that w are targeting these kids to fill big holes in our roster. Last year - PG - this year outside shooter. We simply can't allow these holes to exist in the first place. When we identify a hole or potential hole on our roster the first order of business has to be get that hole filled with an acceptable level of talent. I am all for going after the big fish, but we can no longer do that to fill holes. Getting the kahunas has to be in the context of roster enhancement and not roster neccessity.

It may not be so much that the college desirability pecking order has changed as much as it is that the gap between the 1A Knetucky, Duke, Kansas types of programs and the 1B types of programs (that hopefully still includes us) has widened.

I couldn't get by the half dozen part. It's Duke and Kentucky maybe Arizona. Besides that no one is taking anything from Syracuse. This stuff happens to every single school out there. You can't avoid it. Gotta move forward and find the next kid. Syracuse has done it in the past so let's see if they can do it again.(they will)

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Proof to me is if we can pull in Carey against the likes of Kansas, and Swider...
Not very confident we can win a head to head vs. Kansas, Arizona, or UNC nowadays...
Throw in the fact that more programs seen to be recruiting well in today's market, e.g. Alabama, Miami, Notre Dame, UCLA, Villanova, even W. Kentucky...

o
Carey isnt Kansas top target at point. We need to negative recruit here and push for him to sign during the early period.

 

[Arangeman]

Nova has recruited horribly according to the recruiting services over the last half dozen years. And UNC has been down as well. According to the recruiting services.

UNC had 6 McDs on their team this year

 

[GooseMutt]

UNC had 6 McDs on their team this year

Part of the problem is great players want to play and scrimmage with great players to prepare themselves for the NBA leap. Practicing with other elite guys is far better than going up against walk ons and there are far more practices than games. Elite players migrate to the places other elite players are at. Potential championship doesn't hurt.

 

[Trueblue25]

Lol UK, Duke and MAYBE Kansas are the only ones who will be successful at this.

Not UNC, not Maryland or Arizona, don't think Nova or UCLA could either.

 

[AlaskaSU]

I couldn't get by the half dozen part. It's Duke and Kentucky maybe Arizona. Besides that no one is taking anything from Syracuse. This stuff happens to every single school out there. You can't avoid it. Gotta move forward and find the next kid. Syracuse has done it in the past so let's see if they can do it again.(they will)

Circumstances change. We are no longer one of the top teams in the top conference like we were in the old Big East. Northern teams do not fair well in what is basically a southern conference. The Dome is no longer in a class by itself. The Melo Center is a feather in our cap but it is not unique. Some of our facilities (locker rooms, dorms) are second rate compared to the top echelon. Other P-5 teams are reinvesting to constantly upgrade their facilities. It is no surprise that we have never had as many strikeouts as we now have.

 

[AirForceOrange]

Let's face reality, in general we are not considered in the Top Tier, the "Blue Bloods" (UK, dook, Kansas, UNC). We are not viewed as a Blue Blood, thus we are subject to losing recruits at the last minute when one of the BBs make last minute offers, such as what happened with JT. This is a perception issue, not necessarily as stat issue, as all know our program record and history matches up well with BBs...

 

[jordoo]

Ideally we would get four 4-star players every year. Two of them would leave early after their soph or junior season. The other two would be good four year players. Add in a 3-star with potential here and there and the occasional 5-start that wants to come here.

 

[Brooky03]

The problem is we're too good at making good players look like awesome players. When a 5 star recruit has a good season but only sees his draft projections in the low 20's, he might come back because he'll think he can improve on that number. When a 4 star sees his draft projection anywhere in the 1st round, He Gone! because he'll think he probably can't improve much on that number.

In the 5 star scenario, the coaches are already planning on the 5 star bouncing after a year, so they have an elite backup recruit ready to go for the next season. The 5 star backup expects the current 5 star to be gone, so he's eager to commit early because of the PT. With the 4 star scenario, it's tough to get a solid backup early on due to the likelihood the 4 star will return and eat up PT. When JB makes the 4 star look incredible because JB is a Hall of Fame coach and does that a lot, the 4 star jumps and the coaching staff is left scrambling for whatever is left at that point in the recruiting game. They can guarantee playing time now, but the high level recruits remaining either haven't had their ego stroked enough due to a lack of interest early on or they're waiting for offers from OAD factories.

In summation, our 4 star recruits need to suck more.

 

[O-pulse]

The major things that have messed with our recruiting are the ridiculous NCAA sanctions and a poor recruiting effort. The recruiting effort of all our eggs in one basket and not using our best recruiting asserts on the top gear recruits.
In addition we didn't build a solid base of team recruits to have depth that is solid.
We cast our date for 2017 and now we need to make the best of that poor effort. We have some solid players coming in and yet no takeover of and scoring wing with a decent outside stroke. We can win consistently in the ACC with players that we are able to bring in. The selector schools aren't taking turns winning National Championships every year. It's time to return to what we do brst.

 

[Jzsshuttles]

Circumstances change. We are no longer one of the top teams in the top conference like we were in the old Big East. Northern teams do not fair well in what is basically a southern conference. The Dome is no longer in a class by itself. The Melo Center is a feather in our cap but it is not unique. Some of our facilities (locker rooms, dorms) are second rate compared to the top echelon. Other P-5 teams are reinvesting to constantly upgrade their facilities. It is no surprise that we have never had as many strikeouts as we now have.

Syracuse has had plenty of strike outs over the last 20 years. The scholarship reduction has hurt more then anything due to early deflections to the NBA.

 

[two3zone]

Syracuse has had plenty of strike outs over the last 20 years. The scholarship reduction has hurt more then anything due to early deflections to the NBA.

The reductions haven't hurt, we've had multiple redshirted years (including one this year) and had a year we gave one of our scholarships to a walk on. It's an excuse more than anything.

 

[jordoo]

The reductions haven't hurt, we've had multiple redshirted years (including one this year) and had a year we gave one of our scholarships to a walk on. It's an excuse more than anything.

They have hurt because we've made some poor choices and missed on some player evaluations. That's sort of what your saying though.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Circumstances change. We are no longer one of the top teams in the top conference like we were in the old Big East. Northern teams do not fair well in what is basically a southern conference. The Dome is no longer in a class by itself. The Melo Center is a feather in our cap but it is not unique. Some of our facilities (locker rooms, dorms) are second rate compared to the top echelon. Other P-5 teams are reinvesting to constantly upgrade their facilities. It is no surprise that we have never had as many strikeouts as we now have.

Totally disagree with this take. It certainly isn't affecting Notre Dame. Our facilities are better than theirs and Miami's. Facilities and being in the north have zero to do with bad recruiting strategy. We weren't signing guys Duke and UK targeted when we were in the Big East. We were just as good as Louisville in the old Big East. We were the top 2 programs before the merger. If this was true those programs would be struggling as well.