Recruiting strategy

[Eagles20]

You just described every team.

I was replying to somone's comment about buss. I understand the value of role players and how they make up teams.

 

[syr14]

So Syracuse University basketball, multiple championship contenders, numerous #1 rankings, HOF coach with 900+ wins, largest on campus facility in the country, and were giving scholarships to 4 year glue guys that aren't ready after a year in a half and may never be ready.

You may think this thread is dumb but I think a school with the prestige that we have and the advantages we have is dumb to give scholarships to non factors.

Clueless to the fact that plenty of other great programs operate the same way we do.

 

[RF2044]

I thought Keita looked better than advertised from day 1. Not offensively, but definitely defensively and from a speed standpoint. I still remember the first scrimmage where he was beating guy down the floor like a gazelle. I don't get that impression of chino

And the reason for that was that Keita played at Oak Hill. He played top notch competition in practice every day, he played a national schedule where he traveled like a collegiate player and played in highly competitive games--some of which were ESPN televised--so his readiness level was extremely high the moment he arrived on campus. Now, his upside was far more limited than other players we've had. And he never got stronger or developed much offensively, but he was a solid player from day 1, and a very good player for us in a reserve capacity [especially his junior year].

 

[two3zone]

I haven't been around here forever. Could somebody with some more experience let me know if two3zone has always been so seemingly pessimistic, or is this new? Obokoh: Center is the one position in college athletics with the least depth (PG is a close second). Seriously, go look at other teams and let me know how many underclassmen backup centers don't suck. You have to remember that we were recruiting a Center that wasn't supposed to be 2nd on the depth chart until his Junior year, if that. You don't get quality Centers to come in and wait 3 years just to get 10mpg. Patterson: Patterson was a stop-gap that basically fell into our lap. He's getting the job done and I can't think of an alternative player who would be producing at a much better level right now. The alternative very well could have been not landing any guard.

Florida State was bringing out seven footer after seven footer. They have three of them.

Louisville has three centers.

Center is a tough position to recruit for, but I'm sorry that's not an excuse to me, we're Syracuse, we're not St John's or BC.

Can't think of an alternative to Buss? He's shooting 25% from the floor and below 20% from three. Pretty much any 2 guard in the country could probably so better than that.

 

[jordoo]

"Come on man!"

Chino is a high academic kid who played with Bryant and was looked at as s bakup. Plus remember the staff expected him go have another season that the NCAA took away.

Sometimes guys don't become big time contributors. It happens everywhere.

If you read the recruiting board regularly you could educate yourself and not need to ask this every year.

 

[Eagles20]

And the reason for that was that Keita played at Oak Hill. He played top notch competition in practice every day, he played a national schedule where he traveled like a collegiate player and played in highly competitive games--some of which were ESPN televised--so his readiness level was extremely high the moment he arrived on campus. Now, his upside was far more limited than other players we've had. And he never got stronger or developed much offensively, but he was a solid player from day 1, and a very good player for us in a reserve capacity [especially his junior year].

I know I saw him play in person his junior year at the Prime Time Shootout. I don't think it was his senior year but I could be wrong.

I was speaking from an athletic standpoint upon seeing him the first time compared to Chino.

 

[two3zone]

"Come on man!" Chino is a high academic kid who played with Bryant and was looked at as s bakup. Plus remember the staff expected him go have another season that the NCAA took away. Sometimes guys don't become big time contributors. It happens everywhere. If you read the recruiting board regularly you could educate yourself and not need to ask this every year.

I do browse through it and get a lot of good stuff from there.

But what I also get is a recruit is the best player ever, then they sign somewhere else and it's good riddance. Then the over the top expectations etc etc. You can look back and the Chinoso thread, nothing over the top but expectations were high to say the least. Just seems weird to be recruiting backups, just recruit guys who can play and figure it out from there.

 

[Brooky03]

Florida State was bringing out seven footer after seven footer. They have three of them.

Louisville has three centers.

Center is a tough position to recruit for, but I'm sorry that's not an excuse to me, we're Syracuse, we're not St John's or BC.

Can't think of an alternative to Buss? He's shooting 25% from the floor and below 20% from three. Pretty much any 2 guard in the country could probably so better than that.

Florida State's 7-footers were terrible recruits and looked pretty bad against us. I wouldn't use them as the basis of an argument on this topic. Also, Buss was a relatively highly rated recruit. I was saying that there wasn't a recruit ranked any higher that we had a significant shot of landing over Buss. Not saying I don't believe Patterson can be a contributor, but sometime recruits don't live up to their ranking. Are you just realizing this?

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Florida State was bringing out seven footer after seven footer. They have three of them.

Louisville has three centers.

Center is a tough position to recruit for, but I'm sorry that's not an excuse to me, we're Syracuse, we're not St John's or BC.

Can't think of an alternative to Buss? He's shooting 25% from the floor and below 20% from three. Pretty much any 2 guard in the country could probably so better than that.

• And next year FSU is bringing in another one. You must not have watched much of the game if you thought they were difference makers.

 

[Brooky03]

So Syracuse University basketball, multiple championship contenders, numerous #1 rankings, HOF coach with 900+ wins, largest on campus facility in the country, and were giving scholarships to 4 year glue guys that aren't ready after a year in a half and may never be ready.

You may think this thread is dumb but I think a school with the prestige that we have and the advantages we have is dumb to give scholarships to non factors.

THIS IS WHAT EVERYBODY DOES! except Kentucky and maybe Duke.

How are you not getting this? Do you watch other teams at all?

 

[wadegarrett]

Yeah, why did we recruit Obokoh?

the coaching staff didn't recruit him just to waste a scholarship for 4 years. They obviously saw something in him. Some times you hit a home run, sometimes you strike out.

 

[two3zone]

THIS IS WHAT EVERYBODY DOES! except Kentucky and maybe Duke. How are you not getting this? Do you watch other teams at all?

Ok, so I hear from some people we signed Chin to get Bryant and a 4 year great academics and hope he contributes.

From you you're saying every team does this.

I don't know of any perennial top 15 team that signs a guy who will be useful for 2 out of 4 years tops.

That's not even the point, the point is you don't think we're capable of signing better players than that? Come on.

 

[two3zone]

the coaching staff didn't recruit him just to waste a scholarship for 4 years. They obviously saw something in him. Some times you hit a home run, sometimes you strike out. It is what it is. Its not a good look to just throw the dude on the street.

I'm not saying throw him on the street because unfortunately he is going to need to play some minutes, even if not this year (which he will) but next year too. I just hope he's capable of improving a ton.

 

[Brooky03]

I do browse through it and get a lot of good stuff from there.

But what I also get is a recruit is the best player ever, then they sign somewhere else and it's good riddance. Then the over the top expectations etc etc. You can look back and the Chinoso thread, nothing over the top but expectations were high to say the least. Just seems weird to be recruiting backups, just recruit guys who can play and figure it out from there.

We're a prestigious program and we land top 10 classes consistently, but we don't just get to point to a player and say, "hey you, you're coming to Syracuse regardless of the talent ahead of you on the depth chart."

The top 20 recruits at any position do not want to come to any school that isn't going to give them a shot to start within 2 years (often less). Outside of the top 20 at a position, you're generally not talking about players who can contribute within one season. Obokoh was supposed to be behind Rak and Coleman. You tell me how you get a top 100 overall recruit to commit to this team knowing he's behind two McDonald's All-Americans.

 

[stuckinbig11]

I wasn't a big BMK fan but holy hell could he get down the court.

If you were not a BMK fan, then the lack of understanding exhibited in your posts in this thread now makes sense. Wouldn't we all love to have him back as a role player this year?

 

[Brooky03]

Ok, so I hear from some people we signed Chin to get Bryant and a 4 year great academics and hope he contributes.

From you you're saying every team does this.

I don't know of any perennial top 15 team that signs a guy who will be useful for 2 out of 4 years tops.

That's not even the point, the point is you don't think we're capable of signing better players than that? Come on.

We are capable and we do sign players better than that. My point is that teams sign players solely for the purpose of being backups or role players (except UK). Coaches project out their lineups 2 or 3 years and, if they have two solid players at the position already (like we did), they try to get depth if they can. The only way that works is if you get a guy who's not ready to play right away. Why? Because the guys who are ready to play right away aren't going to commit because why would they want to sit or get limited minutes for 2+ seasons when they could play instantly somewhere else?

 

[two3zone]

If you were not a BMK fan, then the lack of understanding exhibited in your posts in this thread now make sense. Wouldn't we all love to have him back as a role player this year?

I actually mentioned in another post that I actually wish we had him this year.

 

[two3zone]

We're a prestigious program and we land top 10 classes consistently, but we don't just get to point to a player and say, "hey you, you're coming to Syracuse regardless of the talent ahead of you on the depth chart." The top 20 recruits at any position do not want to come to any school that isn't going to give them a shot to start within 2 years (often less). Outside of the top 20 at a position, you're generally not talking about players who can contribute within one season. Obokoh was supposed to be behind Rak and Coleman. You tell me how you get a top 100 overall recruit to commit to this team knowing he's behind two McDonald's All-Americans.

When we recruited DC we had two McDonalds all Americans ahead of him along with BMK. Fortunately for DC Melo flunked out of school.

There are 80 minutes between the 5 and the 4. You can easily have three guys play those two spots and dish out minutes accordingly.

It's kind of the point to my thread, if we expanded out recruiting to other parts of the country, do we upgrade the positions on out bench that have been filled by less than great production?

 

[stuckinbig11]

I believe that our football program started downhill because Coach P tried to land a top QB after McNabb, and we did not get him, thus having to settle for a couple tiers lower. We never recovered. Maybe JB has a better strategy--go after and GET the top players that fit our program and you believe you can actually land.

 

[Dave85]

I made a topic similar to this a couple of seasons ago and was figuring I'd bring it up again and see where people stand on this.

I'm sure people are going to assume this is a topic about recruiting athletes instead of basketball players, but it's not. My question is the guys we're recruiting and why.

I'm not slighting the guys I'm going to mention one bit but more questioning why they're here.

First one is Chinoso. I'm not really understanding why we offered him to begin with. Obviously it's for depth at the 5 but I mean there was not one other center that would have been game ready two or three years before Chin? I find that hard to believe. Coming in everybody knew that he wasn't going to be ready until his jr or sr year and that was even with redshirting. So I ask again, we can't find somebody more advanced? I don't buy it one bit and am just trying to figure out why. It's not playing time because our centers usually share a lot if minutes at the 5 with their backup. It's just mind boggling to me that we couldn't find a guy who could step in and be at least serviceable.

Next guy I wonder about is Buss. Coming in he had question marks, and we recruited over him the first year he was here. Usually in cases like this where you recruit somebody at a position that's full it's a "wait your turn" type thing, why are we recruiting guys that are forever reserves? Buss is getting some run now and I'm sure it will continue next year, but Kaleb's running the offense a lot better than he was earlier in the season and only improving. I can't foresee Buss playing ahead of Richardson and with the way Buss has shot the past two years can't imagine Howard being too far behind him either. If Ron stays for four this might be the only year he sees double digit minutes.

I guess my point being is why are we giving 4 year scholarships to guys that really are going to have no shot at contributing for 4 years, maybe not even 3. I like to think that we're a school that doesn't have to do that. I know we don't recruit heavy outside the northeast, I'm sure that has a little to do with it as the recruiting pool is going to be obviously smaller. Does this change when Hopkins takes over? Do we start recruiting nationally? Do we actually pursue the one and doners harder?

This is the way I read it is done. Say the coaching staff wants to get PF. They make a 2 or 3 offers to PFs. The first PF to accept the offer generally gets it. I don't think you can play games with this as much as you might think. The other thing that determines recruiting is who our coaches know regionally. JB and the assistant coaches build years of relationships up with many HS and AAU coaches. We mostly recruit from the New England, New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Baltimore over the years. I think our coaches have done a pretty good job. I've enjoyed the successes over the last five years.

 

[Brooky03]

When we recruited DC we had two McDonalds all Americans ahead of him along with BMK. Fortunately for DC Melo flunked out of school.

There are 80 minutes between the 5 and the 4. You can easily have three guys play those two spots and dish out minutes accordingly.

It's kind of the point to my thread, if we expanded out recruiting to other parts of the country, do we upgrade the positions on out bench that have been filled by less than great production?

You can't have a legitimate 5 play the 4 without seriously hurting your offense. Rick Jackson was an exception.

DCII committed largely because he was a local recruit. Central New York isn't producing many players like him, so the chances of duplicating what we did with Coleman are slim, to say the very least. He was also going to be battling with Rak for minutes at the time; so, it's not like there was clear cut, 30+mpg starting Center ahead of him. Fab was never in the equation, so no, we didn't have two McDAA's ahead of him.

As for recruiting other parts of the country, we have a pretty expansive recruiting area all along the East Coast. You have to limit your recruiting area somewhat and all programs do it. We focus on DC, Baltimore, Philly, NYC because that's where the talent is.

 

[dasher]

We recruit for the system, not necessarily the caliber of the recruit. Also, Syracuse has to chase recruits whereas a Kentucky or Duke pick the best available. I hope when Hop takes over he changes the approach and makes Syracuse a national destination instead of just a northeast one. Duke gave us G and Buss couldn't make it at Indiana. You do the math.

I like rf but he didn't do near enough justice to how off your post was. We are a national recruiting school. Our base is in the northeast. As it should be. There are very few schools that recruit as well as we do.

 

[two3zone]

You can't have a legitimate 5 play the 4 without seriously hurting your offense. Rick Jackson was an exception. DCII committed largely because he was a local recruit. Central New York isn't producing many players like him, so the chances of duplicating what we did with Coleman are slim, to say the very least. He was also going to be battling with for minutes at the time; so, it's not like there was clear cut, 30+mpg starting Center ahead of him. Fab was never in the equation, so no, we didn't have teo McDAA's ahead of him. As for recruiting other parts of the country, we have a pretty expansive recruiting area all along the East Coast. You have to limit your recruiting area somewhat and all programs do it. We focus on DC, Baltimore, Philly, NYC because that's where the talent is.

Rak was a 4 coming here and if DC was healthy last year and this year he'd probably be playing there a lot still.

Fab was in the equation, he was here when DC signed and there was no indication that he wouldn't be here going forward either.

 

[dasher]

Ok, so I hear from some people we signed Chin to get Bryant and a 4 year great academics and hope he contributes.

From you you're saying every team does this.

I don't know of any perennial top 15 team that signs a guy who will be useful for 2 out of 4 years tops.

That's not even the point, the point is you don't think we're capable of signing better players than that? Come on.

Oh, you are wrong. UConn has done it for years. Mostly with big kids. You follow our recruiting a lot closer than you follow other teams. They all do that. Except maybe Kentucky but that is another ball game.

 

[two3zone]

Oh, you are wrong. UConn has done it for years. Mostly with big kids. You follow our recruiting a lot closer than you follow other teams. They all do that. Except maybe Kentucky but that is another ball game.

It is true, I do follow our recruiting far more than other teams, and I usually follow the top 100. I don't have a lot more time to waste with basketball. Haha.

I get it, I get what you're saying and what everybody else is. But I'm probably just not going to be convinced that we couldn't have done better at the backup center spot. If we strictly got him because of TB, I'll understand it a little more, but outside of that, ehhhh.