Recruiting, what is the SU brand to entice the best recruits to commit to Cuse?

[baggerbob]

Right…throw him in and that’s arguably 5 of our top 10?

Now maybe Dion, MCW, Flynn, and Fab would be at that level if they played Junior and even senior seasons here. But we can only go on what happened.

Though if we were ranking said players as NBA players, DC, Sherm, Rony, and Billy probably had the 4 best NBA careers too, with Dion and MCW coming in 5th and 6th. So really, that first group was just a little better, at least at the top of the rosters.

A couple of backup players on those teams were 1st round picks, Leron Ellis, and Dave Johnson. Ellis started his senior year, and Johnson was 6th man 2 years, then started his last 2 years.

 

[tbonezone]

i was kinda hoping Syracuse had built itself a solid pipeline to canada with BRISSET and GUERRIER but i kinda wonder now if that pipeline is ruptured with their early departures.

 

[MSOrange]

I blame it on the ACC. If we would have stayed in the BE our recruiting would have remained strong.

 

[orangefog]

i was kinda hoping Syracuse had built itself a solid pipeline to canada with BRISSET and GUERRIER but i kinda wonder now if that pipeline is ruptured with their early departures.

Both of those guys were good, but they were secondary players. The top Canadian players have been going elsewhere for a long time.

 

[tbonezone]

WhUT ?. brisset is playing 22 minutes a night in the NBA and guerrier started every game the last 2 seasons and was our leading rebounder. i'll take those secondary types of players every dang day dontcha know . i see no canadiens last two classes . ya hoser !

 

[DoctorBombay]

When you play pickup ball in the park, and someone calls out, “Let’s play zone,” what kind of reaction should they expect?

We used to get great recruits when we played m2m. The brand was strong. Then we switched to zone and still got some nice players. But the brand changed, and gradually the rankings of the recruits began to dwindle. The brand used to be Showtime. Then, it was the slowest, lowest-scoring team in the conference. And now, we’re a team that hasn’t finished near the top of the league and hadn’t been ranked since recruits were still shooting underhand at 8’ rims.

Disagree. As much as I’d prefer JB switch things up a bit on D, the fact is when his zone is clicking w/ the right “prototypical” Cuse athletes, it is a thing of beauty…and damn near impenetrable.
The key is, was, and always will be recruiting. We got plenty of good-to-great athletes when our recruiting was on point- credit mostly to Hop. We need to get back to that, or it’ll be more of the same…at least until JB is gone.

 

[Madbiker]

Here's the brand 2022:
Remember when we were in the Big East? We used to be really good and play a good style of ball.
Try to think of that when you think of Syracuse.

 

[tbonezone]

you play zone you're giving up wide open treys. that don't work these days. at least with man you got a hand in your face or pinned to your jersey . and yes it takes more energy and better athletes to chase or to apply ball pressure and thus you have to substitute. that's the part JB can't abide. sitting his starters even 1 minute. it's DINOBALL.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

JB is the prime suspect. His abrasiveness, his public bullying of his players, the general inflexibility in gameplan and game management, declining results under him, and the fact that he's almost 80. Together it's a deadly combo.

JB persona doesn’t play well in the social media world. Game and landscape has changed dramatically in the past decade. JB has not.

Syracuse has the foundation to be amazing in this day and day. But it won’t be amazing again with JB at the helm. Needs a completely fresh perspective and approach.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Maybe it's wrong, but I still think recruits generally pick a school because it's where they think they'll do best. They think they'll improve, they like the style and the coaches and the guys who will be their teammates. In other words, they feel they'll fit in. They may also care about the competition (conference) and being close to home so their parents and relatives can come see them play.

Most of the other amenities are just toppings on the ice cream. Nice...but not essential.

SU does have one item that may work in its favor to influence decisions: the Dome. It seems to me it's an exciting pitch to tell recruits they'll be playing in front of crowds of 20,000-30,000. That's more people than fill Madison Square Garden.

Otherwise it's mostly blather.

Combine the old Big East...the best conference in the country and the Dome...the largest on campus arena in the country with an exciting style and you've got a brand there.

Unfortunately, the Orange now are in a conference that is not a good cultural fit. They've largely replaced running with standing around looking for an iso or 3 of dubious quality. And the Dome alone won't cut it.

 

[tbonezone]

and TV.we get no national coverage cuz we suck. you might catch Syracuse on ESPN if they're playing a Duke. or UNC. or ND.maybe VA. but that's becuz of the opponent. not us. and frankly we ain't been showing well lately. you want top talent ?
get yourself ranked and respected.and win and put on a showcase on TV.

 

[orangefog]

WhUT ?. brisset is playing 22 minutes a night in the NBA and guerrier started every game the last 2 seasons and was our leading rebounder. i'll take those secondary types of players every dang day dontcha know . i see no canadiens last two classes . ya hoser !

I like both those players, too. But, they weren’t the best players in their respective classes. A pipeline would indicate, to me, we were getting the top talent from Canada.

 

[tbonezone]

a pipeline simply indicates that players are flowing across the border to us. rautins ,ennis ,oshae ,Q. canada has been to to us. i'm discouraged it appears to have dried up. did we offer any northern neighbors ?
caleb Houston was offered by michigan,duke,bama and UVA. there's 2 ACC schools.
ryan nembhard went to creighton. pg. no syracuse offer. i see we're not getting them. are we still trying ?
who's scouting up north anyways ? or was there a border issue ?

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Disagree. As much as I’d prefer JB switch things up a bit on D, the fact is when his zone is clicking w/ the right “prototypical” Cuse athletes, it is a thing of beauty…and damn near impenetrable.
The key is, was, and always will be recruiting. We got plenty of good-to-great athletes when our recruiting was on point- credit mostly to Hop. We need to get back to that, or it’ll be more of the same…at least until JB is gone.

Not sure what you’re disagreeing with. You seem to be mischaracterizing what I wrote. I didn’t discuss the (occasional) efficacy of zone. And I didn’t discuss ’athleticism.’ Essentially, it was about getting the best recruits. When, in the all-zone era, have we signed players as highly-rated as Pearl, DC, Billy Owens, and Winfred Walton?

My post was about the attractiveness (or, the unattractiveness) of being a zone-exclusive team. And even those who think it’s wonderful that we’re attached to the ‘wing-T’ of basketball can‘t honestly answer my first question. As I said/say, we have gotten some nice players despite the zone. But that’s like saying you survived the crash despite not wearing your seatbelt.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

The best stretch syracuse ever had (2008-2014) was when they were exclusively playing zone…

The best stretch of what?

 

[OrangeDW]

Both of those guys were good, but they were secondary players. The top Canadian players have been going elsewhere for a long time.

Which is unacceptable. We’re the closest big time school to Toronto and Montreal. We should be a premier destination for them.

 

[orangefog]

Which is unacceptable. We’re the closest big time school to Toronto and Montreal. We should be a premier destination for them.

I agree. I think the problem is, most of the top Canadian players come to the US for a year or two. So, they are already away from home.

 

[Bulldog04]

Having the head coach take more than 2 recruiting trips in a calendar year to let the brand be known would be a good start

 

[OrangeDW]

Having the head coach take more than 2 recruiting trips in a calendar year to let the brand be known would be a good start

Agreed, Winning some games and putting some good players into the NBA would help too…..which starts with recruiting.

 

[007]

To me, your question is better asked as "What is missing from the last 8 seasons that negates the strength of the brand?"

 

[Cuse181]

The best stretch of what?

Best stretch of consistent talent and performance

 

[kcsu]

I agree, PG misses have been massive. It all started with Ennis leaving early, he was good but I think a lot of people thought he would be a 2-and-done guy. Kaleb Joseph was a top 50 guy who never materialized and but maybe would’ve been helped by sitting for a year behind ennis. Then came the years of the “square peg in a round hole” frank Howard being transitioned to PG, followed by Gbinje, followed by the Jalen Carey debacle that lead to JG starting at the 1 and then of course Kadary moving on. The team has had decent options, but never any good options at PG since 2014 (edit: the Gillon year is sandwiched in there but again, he wasn’t a perfect syracuse-style PG either)

Cant win consistently without solid pg play.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Best stretch of consistent talent and performance

That’s an interesting “metric.” Which doesn’t include the 1987, 1996, and 2003 title games. Or signing top 5 talents like Pearl, DC, Owens, or Walton.

 

[baggerbob]

That’s an interesting “metric.” Which doesn’t include the 1987, 1996, and 2003 title games. Or signing top 5 talents like Pearl, DC, Owens, or Walton.

The talent from 1986-1991, was better, and no comparison, 1st round draft choices years in the league. The NBA wasn't watered down with 30 teams back then either.

 

[sufandu]

The best stretch syracuse ever had (2008-2014) was when they were exclusively playing zone…

It's debateable that was our best stretch. '85-'91 was right there. I get that the two best win/loss records under JB occurred during '08--'14. But '85-'91 had us more consistently in the top 10 rankings and had more elite all american players, including at least two player of the year candidates with one winning it before being the number one pick in the draft. Regardless, 2008-2014 we were playing a fun brand of basketball. And the recruiting that led to the beginning of that run, if not the whole thing, fed off the success of 2003.

Can we be fun again and be exclusively zone? Maybe. We need some way to show recruits that we're aggressive and fun. What we've put on the floor recently is neither. A change in defense may not be required, but it could help.