Red opens up about new Syracuse players:

[FrancoPizza]

Sorry to reply to myself, but John Wooden's full court press in the 1960s was legendary. It was a 2-2-1 zone press. The front two guys would pick up the inbounds guy and the one he threw it to. They would start out in relatively tight toward the middle of the floor. Their role was to funnel the ball handler to the sideline.

The second line of 2 in Wooden's classic press were probably 5-10 feet inside the center court line. The guy guarding the ball handler would get steered toward the sideline, where that guy would block his path to the front court, and create an opportunity for a trap, with the sideline acting as your third defender.

Of course, when he later had all-world centers to erase mistakes, it was imperious, unbeatable. But even before Kareem, he won a couple championships on the back of his zone press.

Yes. The 2-2-1 is what I’d like to see but I fear it will only be with a different coaching staff.

 

[RF2044]

I mean wasn’t he asked to “say stuff”?
He does know a lot about basketball. Like everyone, he is sometimes wrong, but about basketball he is usually right.

Of course he does.

NBA salary cap machinations, however, are not something that he knows a lot about. The responses he gave were not "about basketball," it was about a professional team making tradeoffs to juggle the salary cap.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Orangezoo]

Pretty much a fluff piece that doesn’t say a whole lot more than having more athletes in an effort to create more transition opportunities given the woeful steal and block numbers last year.

I still don’t get a true sense of a plan or vision out of Red whether it’s a speaking interview or something like this. Lots of references to certain things but never piecing an end to end vision of what his program should look like. Almost as though his thoughts and approach are too fragmented which honestly lines up with how we’ve seen him manage the games and subs as well.

Hes got the talent and physical elements on this team to win and yet he’s still not effectively selling his brand of SU basketball effectively to anyone whether rhey are hardcore or casual. Trying really hard to be stoked about the talent pulled in and I just hope the vision shows up on the court because it’s not going to off the court it seems, not from Red at least.

 

[RF2044]

Pretty much a fluff piece that doesn’t say a whole lot more than having more athletes in an effort to create more transition opportunities given the woeful steal and block numbers last year.

I still don’t get a true sense of a plan or vision out of Red whether it’s a speaking interview or something like this. Lots of references to certain things but never piecing an end to end vision of what his program should look like. Almost as though his thoughts and approach are too fragmented which honestly lines up with how we’ve seen him manage the games and subs as well.

Hes got the talent and physical elements on this team to win and yet he’s still not selling his brand of SU basketball effectively to anyone whether rhey are hardcore or casual. Trying really hard to be stoked about the talent pulled in and I just hope the vision shows up on the court because it’s not going to off the court it seems.

One of the biggest / most fair criticisms about this coaching staff that I've seen is that we lack a core identity. The goals stated by the coaching staff haven't translated into on-court production.

Hope that changes this year. We'll see.

 

[Orangezoo]

One of the biggest / most fair criticisms about this coaching staff that I've seen is that we lack a core identity. The goals stated by the coaching staff haven't translated into on-court production.

Hope that changes this year. We'll see.

Yep. I’m trying not to judge unfairly and apply bias from the business world where those of us who have to represent our firm or team have to be effective and sharp and help others understand so that we can sell/influence etc. Maybe it’s too much to judge from that lens but it’s just painful listening to him and reading these while he tries to communicate what he is trying to do here.

By no means am I saying we should have gone with Gerry but when he spoke at JBs retirement celebration and then even at his opening press conference for Siena, you got that passion , clarity and enthusiasm in droves. If Red can get that through to the kids and they get the job done I could care less about what he sounds like in interviews or articles. For now we don’t have anything to work with that shows he can do it on any of those fronts which worries me about having handed him this third year.

Wishing for the best.

 

[kingtidge]

One of the biggest / most fair criticisms about this coaching staff that I've seen is that we lack a core identity. The goals stated by the coaching staff haven't translated into on-court production.

Hope that changes this year. We'll see.

Identity is "orange standard".

 

[Niastri]

Yep. I’m trying not to judge unfairly and apply bias from the business world where those of us who have to represent our firm or team have to be effective and sharp and help others understand so that we can sell/influence etc. Maybe it’s too much to judge from that lens but it’s just painful listening to him and reading these while he tries to communicate what he is trying to do here.

By no means am I saying we should have gone with Gerry but when he spoke at JBs retirement celebration and then even at his opening press conference for Siena, you got that passion , clarity and enthusiasm in droves. If Red can get that through to the kids and they get the job done I could care less about what he sounds like in interviews or articles. For now we don’t have anything to work with that shows he can do it on any of those fronts which worries me about having handed him this third year.

Wishing for the best.

It is a strange dichotomy that Red feels like a lousy communicator in press conferences and interviews, but empirically is a good recruiter of players.

Red, without any history of coaching excellence, has done better recruiting for Syracuse than anybody since Hopkins left.

It is strange, we usually think of the two things going together. He seems to connect on a personal level much better than in the more public settings. My few times meeting Red, he’s been very soft spoken, polite, but not particularly magnetic. Hopkins, on the other hand, was as charismatic as could be.

But, recruiting is the lifeblood of the program, as long as Red can continue to reel in top players, he has a chance to develop the other skills he needs.

 

[Orangezoo]

It is a strange dichotomy that Red feels like a lousy communicator in press conferences and interviews, but empirically is a good recruiter of players.

Red, without any history of coaching excellence, has done better recruiting for Syracuse than anybody since Hopkins left.

It is strange, we usually think of the two things going together. He seems to connect on a personal level much better than in the more public settings. My free times meeting Red, he’s been very soft spoken, polite, but not particularly magnetic. Hopkins, on the other hand, was as charismatic as could be.

But, recruiting is the lifeblood of the program, as long as Red can continue to reel in top players, he has a chance to develop the other skills he needs.

He has the benefit this year of some excuses around NIL last summer to help offset concerns over the losing season that some of the recruits both portal and HS may balk at if it continues. So it’s not a long burning candle when it comes to those relationships and in person being enough. Thus the C minus (on a curve) last year from the coaching standpoint needs to bump to a B+ or better this year maybe has to even be an A. It has to be a clear progression up as compared to his first year when there was also some talent on the roster.

 

[Blanko97]

It is a strange dichotomy that Red feels like a lousy communicator in press conferences and interviews, but empirically is a good recruiter of players.

Red, without any history of coaching excellence, has done better recruiting for Syracuse than anybody since Hopkins left.

It is strange, we usually think of the two things going together. He seems to connect on a personal level much better than in the more public settings. My free times meeting Red, he’s been very soft spoken, polite, but not particularly magnetic. Hopkins, on the other hand, was as charismatic as could be.

But, recruiting is the lifeblood of the program, as long as Red can continue to reel in top players, he has a chance to develop the other skills he needs.

Different requirements, with players its all about the positives and the passion but with the press (in the midst of a NCAA tournament drought) it is much more negative. Most people are good speakers when you are stacking wins because everyone is on the same page with what's going right.

 

[hoopsupstate]

It appears the coaching staff is pleased with the current roster. The last thing he is or should be doing is coming out and hyping up next year’s team. He’s more guarded. It’s smart not to come out and say “this is our best ever recruiting class ever” or say this is going to be a “top ACC team.” Just put in the work this summer to get the new roster used to each other and try to build the system he wants to put in place. This is by far the most athletic team we’ve had in years. I think it would be smart to introduce the individual story of each player and build enthusiasm by getting fans to know each player. Post interviews of each player and show player highlights. Show the fans what you showed Donnie and JJ about what you were looking for in building the team. It would lend some credibility and show the fans what the plan looks like. Communication can be done in many ways without Red having to do all the talking. It’s not his strength, so use the media and social media to get your message out. Once the team gets back, do as many community events as possible to get the players involved with fans.

 

[baggerbob]

It appears the coaching staff is pleased with the current roster. The last thing he is or should be doing is coming out and hyping up next year’s team. He’s more guarded. It’s smart not to come out and say “this is our best ever recruiting class ever” or say this is going to be a “top ACC team.” Just put in the work this summer to get the new roster used to each other and try to build the system he wants to put in place. This is by far the most athletic team we’ve had in years. I think it would be smart to introduce the individual story of each player and build enthusiasm by getting fans to know each player. Post interviews of each player and show player highlights. Show the fans what you showed Donnie and JJ about what you were looking for in building the team. It would lend some credibility and show the fans what the plan looks like. Communication can be done in many ways without Red having to do all the talking. It’s not his strength, so use the media and social media to get your message out. Once the team gets back, do as many community events as possible to get the players involved with fans.

Last years team was a mess from the start. Getting someone like Eddie was a mistake to start, and nice person. But no defense and you had to walk the ball up the floor, that was probably the least athletic team since we lost 27 in a row.

 

[Orangezoo]

It appears the coaching staff is pleased with the current roster. The last thing he is or should be doing is coming out and hyping up next year’s team. He’s more guarded. It’s smart not to come out and say “this is our best ever recruiting class ever” or say this is going to be a “top ACC team.” Just put in the work this summer to get the new roster used to each other and try to build the system he wants to put in place. This is by far the most athletic team we’ve had in years. I think it would be smart to introduce the individual story of each player and build enthusiasm by getting fans to know each player. Post interviews of each player and show player highlights. Show the fans what you showed Donnie and JJ about what you were looking for in building the team. It would lend some credibility and show the fans what the plan looks like. Communication can be done in many ways without Red having to do all the talking. It’s not his strength, so use the media and social media to get your message out. Once the team gets back, do as many community events as possible to get the players involved with fans.

Yeah you don’t have to get the Pom Poms out ( nor should any coach after last years mess) but painting the vision more clearly and doing so in a manner that is the most effective is important. There is no one right way to do so.

 

[Cuse99&01]

Last years team was a mess from the start. Getting someone like Eddie was a mistake to start, and nice person. But no defense and you had to walk the ball up the floor, that was probably the least athletic team since we lost 27 in a row.

Buddy's senior year squad might be the most unathletic team

 

[SoBristol]

One of the biggest / most fair criticisms about this coaching staff that I've seen is that we lack a core identity. The goals stated by the coaching staff haven't translated into on-court production.

Hope that changes this year. We'll see.

I see “core Identity” as a vague and almost meaningless buzz phrase.

You can’t have much “identity” (or production/wins) if you have weak defenders at center and forward and the other soft spots in the 2024-25 roster including below average shooting.

What type of “identity” are you looking for with this improved line-up? If we have “identity” do we see a 20-plus win season?

 

[RF2044]

I see “core Identity” as a vague and almost meaningless buzz phrase.

You can’t have much “identity” (or production/wins) if you have weak defenders at center and forward and the other soft spots in the 2024-25 roster including below average shooting.

What type of “identity” are you looking for with this improved line-up? If we have “identity” do we see a 20-plus win season?

Seriously? Couldn't disagree more.

Mike Waters opened that article talking about two teams that have strong identities, recruit players who fit what they are trying to do, and translate that style to big on court success -- Alabama and Houston. For those teams, the "identity" isn't just lip service, it is what their entire team culture is predicated upon. It's how they identify system fits and chase those players b/c they fit what they are trying to do.

What I DO agree with from your post is that our program don't have an identity. Primarily, because the coaching staff doesn't seem to have anything more than the rudiments of a basic strategic vision. So beyond saying stuff, there hasn't appeared to be a centralized concept behind what they are trying to do.

That's why our offensive sets are so basic -- what are we trying to accomplish on offense?
And that's why our defense was so atrocious -- it wasn't just the players.

Being unable to articulate an identity and build a roster around what he wants to accomplish is, has been, and will continue to be a red flag for the HC, until he proves otherwise. Having an identity isn't about speaking in platitudes, it is having a strategic vision and then going out and recruiting the players to actualize that vision, because they fit what you are trying to do.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Having an identity isn't about speaking in platitudes, it is having a strategic vision and then going out and recruiting the players to actualize that vision, because they fit what you are trying to do.

Exactly. Why guys like Pitino and Oats are going to be successful wherever they coach. I think they can get more out of less by having the right guys. Not just an entire roster of Mickey Dee's. That's right, Calipari. I'm talking about you.

 

[RedtheGOB]

Seriously? Couldn't disagree more.

Mike Waters opened that article talking about two teams that have strong identities, recruit players who fit what they are trying to do, and translate that style to big on court success -- Alabama and Houston. For those teams, the "identity" isn't just lip service, it is what their entire team culture is predicated upon. It's how they identify system fits and chase those players b/c they fit what they are trying to do.

What I DO agree with from your post is that our program don't have an identity. Primarily, because the coaching staff doesn't seem to have anything more than the rudiments of a basic strategic vision. So beyond saying stuff, there hasn't appeared to be a centralized concept behind what they are trying to do.

That's why our offensive sets are so basic -- what are we trying to accomplish on offense?
And that's why our defense was so atrocious -- it wasn't just the players.

Being unable to articulate an identity and build a roster around what he wants to accomplish is, has been, and will continue to be a red flag for the HC, until he proves otherwise. Having an identity isn't about speaking in platitudes, it is having a strategic vision and then going out and recruiting the players to actualize that vision, because they fit what you are trying to do.

It's easy to cherrypick two programs at their peak right now as what Identity should look like.

I think In fairness not many coaches have real Identities either, some just have top tier elite athletes up and down their bench and what they do on the court from year to year becomes the vision and makes the coaches look like a genius. Duke was built around Cooper Flagg for one year last, that's not a "vision" that's just one guy and now he's gone. So what's Duke's "vision" next year we just get the best of the best but maybe their strength will be their backcourt instead of Cooper. So is that their vision now? I guess you can always say Houston is just dominant on Defense and the Zags are great offensively but with the portal that can always change too though.

Ask yourself this. In 2003 when the old man won his Natty what was his "vision" cuz I can tell you I was there the year before in 2002 and that wasn't a vision of anything. In 2003 there was really no vision either, no one knew what to expect except Melo was supposed to be a great Freshman. Sure you can say oh the zone was part of the vision but when it's mostly freshman on that team doing what they did there was no way to pretend that the vision was to win a Natty with a bunch of random Frosh...

Last thing I will say though, The Orange Standard should've been trashed and buried. You don't keep talking about that after back to back seasons like we had.

 

[baggerbob]

Buddy's senior year squad might be the most unathletic team

Before Fred Lewis got here they had to get Davis and Mackey off the football team to play. They hadn't played since high school, and were better then the players on the team.

 

[Sherman20]

Pretty much a fluff piece that doesn’t say a whole lot more than having more athletes in an effort to create more transition opportunities given the woeful steal and block numbers last year.

I still don’t get a true sense of a plan or vision out of Red whether it’s a speaking interview or something like this. Lots of references to certain things but never piecing an end to end vision of what his program should look like. Almost as though his thoughts and approach are too fragmented which honestly lines up with how we’ve seen him manage the games and subs as well.

Hes got the talent and physical elements on this team to win and yet he’s still not effectively selling his brand of SU basketball effectively to anyone whether rhey are hardcore or casual. Trying really hard to be stoked about the talent pulled in and I just hope the vision shows up on the court because it’s not going to off the court it seems, not from Red at least.

A fluff piece? I hate when people say this. Reporters aren’t critics or opinion columnists. Mike Waters did an interview with Autry where Red said he wants to play faster, improve our defense and our block and steal numbers and get out in transition like the best Cuse teams of old. And Mike went through the numbers in KenPom and elsewhere and showed how bad the team was last season at generating steals and blocks and transition points, compared to our history, showed the numbers for last year and some of the better years, and then compared that to how Red says he wants to play. Everyone is a gd media critic. I agree that Red is a poor communicator and fails to clearly articulate his vision (though at least here he kind of did that), but Mike isn’t writing a fluff piece.

 

[cusefan88]

I think Autry overcorrected on a ton of things from Year 1 to Year 2. Combine that with misses at PG and C (defensively) we got what we got.

I like the off-season so far and I'm keeping an open mind.

 

[Sherman20]

It's easy to cherrypick two programs at their peak right now as what Identity should look like.

I think In fairness not many coaches have real Identities either, some just have top tier elite athletes up and down their bench and what they do on the court from year to year becomes the vision and makes the coaches look like a genius. Duke was built around Cooper Flagg for one year last, that's not a "vision" that's just one guy and now he's gone. So what's Duke's "vision" next year we just get the best of the best but maybe their strength will be their backcourt instead of Cooper. So is that their vision now? I guess you can always say Houston is just dominant on Defense and the Zags are great offensively but with the portal that can always change too though.

Ask yourself this. In 2003 when the old man won his Natty what was his "vision" cuz I can tell you I was there the year before in 2002 and that wasn't a vision of anything. In 2003 there was really no vision either, no one knew what to expect except Melo was supposed to be a great Freshman. Sure you can say oh the zone was part of the vision but when it's mostly freshman on that team doing what they did there was no way to pretend that the vision was to win a Natty with a bunch of random Frosh...

Last thing I will say though, The Orange Standard should've been trashed and buried. You don't keep talking about that after back to back seasons like we had.

I agree that “Orange Standard” is so uninspiring. It doesn’t say anything about what the standard is. It used to be an elite standard but that was 10 years ago. So now it doesn’t really resonate.

I disagree that we didn’t have an identity under JB in 2003 or any other year. If he had the horses and he usually did, JB always wanted long and athletic players to generate turnovers and steals in the zone and block shots at the rim and get out in transition and play fast. Syracuse teams were usually able to play fast because of our ability to generate turnovers and blocked shots. 2003 was one of the strongest teams to do that (think that Texas game) but also 2009-2016, we were elite to very good most years at doing that. As Mike Waters showed with the historical stats in that PS article.

 

[McCuse]

Last years team was a mess from the start. Getting someone like Eddie was a mistake to start, and nice person. But no defense and you had to walk the ball up the floor, that was probably the least athletic team since we lost 27 in a row.

And having to pay him twice wasn't helpful either!

 

[SoBristol]

Seriously? Couldn't disagree more.

Mike Waters opened that article talking about two teams that have strong identities, recruit players who fit what they are trying to do, and translate that style to big on court success -- Alabama and Houston. For those teams, the "identity" isn't just lip service, it is what their entire team culture is predicated upon. It's how they identify system fits and chase those players b/c they fit what they are trying to do.

What I DO agree with from your post is that our program don't have an identity. Primarily, because the coaching staff doesn't seem to have anything more than the rudiments of a basic strategic vision. So beyond saying stuff, there hasn't appeared to be a centralized concept behind what they are trying to do.

That's why our offensive sets are so basic -- what are we trying to accomplish on offense?
And that's why our defense was so atrocious -- it wasn't just the players.

Being unable to articulate an identity and build a roster around what he wants to accomplish is, has been, and will continue to be a red flag for the HC, until he proves otherwise. Having an identity isn't about speaking in platitudes, it is having a strategic vision and then going out and recruiting the players to actualize that vision, because they fit what you are trying to do.

I think you will do better by dropping the buzz word “identity” and attempting to explain more precisely, more meaningfully, what styles you want this SU roster to play or perhaps what style you want Red and staff to build around.
Maybe you can “articulate an identity” - so we can know what you mean. You might say JB’s zone, or trapping M2M, or Princeton offense, or any one of several known styles of defense or offense. But “we should have an identity” with no particulars is - to me - hopelessly vague.

 

[RF2044]

I think you will do better by dropping the buzz word “identity” and attempting to explain more precisely, more meaningfully, what styles you want this SU roster to play or perhaps what style you want Red and staff to build around.
Maybe you can “articulate an identity” - so we can know what you mean. You might say JB’s zone, or trapping M2M, or Princeton offense, or any one of several known styles of defense or offense. But “we should have an identity” with no particulars is - to me - hopelessly vague.

Oh no... I'm hopelessly vague!

It doesn't matter what I, you, or anybody else thinks the identity should be. Misdirection, that is completely irrelevant. I am at a complete loss as to why you think that would have any applicability whatsoever to what Red will do, or should implement. Or why it is necessary for me to articulate what style of play I would prefer to see the program employ.

What I DO know is that throwing shiz at the wall and hoping something sticks isn't a structured way to build a program. And that is why we've had difficulty building toward anything under this new head coach. HE is the one being vague. Perhaps Kline will help them hone-in on what they are looking for. And perhaps this new batch of players will align with whatever strategy Red [not me] is struggling to articulate.

What I also know is that consistent, top programs [and I'm not just talking about the elite handful of top programs] have a core concept -- i.e., an identity -- and they systematically structure their team around that concept. Here are a couple of examples, and not just of the obvious teams atop the top 10.

Purdue likes really tall pivots and values experienced players. Hence, they don't go out and chase top 20 caliber recruits -- they go after system fits that won't leave early, that they develop in their system, and in recent years many of those players have been all-american caliber guys, despite not being elite recruits.

Marquette plays fast, and uses pressure defense to get out in transition. Smart recruits guys who are very athletic, get after it defensively, and have versatility to push the ball upcourt when they generate turnovers.

Michigan State utilizes relentless rebounding and hitch up your shorts defense to slow games down and wear teams down over the course of the game.

Notre Dame under Brey valued shooters, and redshirted a LOT of young players. Net result over much of the last 1/3 of his time there was that ND was a top 20 program, with experienced 4th / 5th year guys who offset playing against more athletic, higher rated recruits from other programs by being more experienced.

Leonard Hamilton used to recruit guys who fit the relentless pressing defensive style he employed. That was more important to him than offensive skill.

Boeheim recruited length for the zone, and loved structuring the offense around versatile forwards.

You know what kind of teams AREN'T successful? The ones who don't try to build around an identity, and don't structure their personnel around the style of play they wish to employ. The ones where the coaches architect teams that don't do anything particularly well.

That's not to imply that even for the coaches who DO have a strong core identity, every season is going to be outstanding. Sometimes, the personnel just isn't optimized. Most teams also have cyclical ups and downs. And some coaches don't have the chops to sustain success at the P4 level, despite not being "bad" coaches.

But the notion that having an identity around which the team is built around is just some talking point is unadulterated bunk.

What I want in terms of style of play is irrelevant. What I really want is for Red to pick a lane, and build something sustainable.