Rickie Collins

[RMH44]

That’s a great question. People all learn at different rates and in different ways. It’s very common to have to teach a lesson 2-3 times before somebody really gets it, but it could be after 5 or 10 times they still don’t get it.

The trick to the latter isn’t to try again the same way nor to give up, it’s to try in different ways. You hope eventually the lesson is taught in a way that strikes a chord. Whatever development LSU did seems to have missed on telegraphing, so now we need HCFB et al to try and teach it another way. The good news is Fran is a developer and will surely do that. The bad news is that means Rickie is a project.

Sadly, I honestly feel what Rickie lacks can't be taught. He simply doesn't have a "feel" for the QB position. I think developing "feel" can happen but it requires rep after rep after rep. Is the staff and the fan base willing to invest the time necessary for this to evolve?

Hopefully, Rickie comes out Saturday and plays great. We will see.

 

[sufandu]

There are a lot of reasons to roll with Rickie as long as you possibly can. At this point, I wonder whether he was brought in to be QB#2. Maybe we had a real good feeling that Angeli would come here once it was confirmed that he would not be getting the QB#1 job. But Rickie was brought in as a project to see is we could take advantage of his upside while waiting that out. I don't know.

As a team, the best scenario is Rickie becoming serviceable and finding 3 more wins to get to a bowl. Carney preserves his redshirt, confidence, and his body for that matter. Our QBs are taking some hits this year. Angeli had been wounded a few times before the Clemson injury, including earlier in that game. Carney might need some more size/strength to avoid an injury. And he does not put any tape out there for people to try to steal him from us. If he does adequately, will he want to stay? A lot of college football gets played in Texas or nearby and a lot of money flowing. Someone could offer him bigger bucks just to be in a real competition for QB#1. Oklahoma State, Arkansas, etc.

Meanwhile, if we do not give Rickie every chance to succeed, why bother keeping for next year? If/when we pull him, he is likely "done" here in this NIL environment. If he wants to drop down to C-USA or Mac, so be it. But we need to know one way or another whether he is worth the ongoing investment of time and money. I think that is 3 games minimum, especially to see if he makes progress between SMU and Pitt during the bye week.

EDIT: Personally, I think he is going to be the type of QB that is up and down. Up and down plays. Up and down drives. Up and down games. 1 or 2 What turnovers a game. Just when you think he has turned the corner, he regresses. Just when you think it is time to give up, he shows you something. He is QB#2 and not QB#1 for a reason. It is up to the rest of the offense, the defense, and the special teams to keep the games from getting away from us during those bad plays and drives.

There's really only one reason to roll with him. The coaches are afraid to put in a young guy because they don't want him ruined psychologically or physically hurt.

I don't think we keep Rickie for next year.

I would love for him to prove me wrong.

 

[bnoro]

If I’m hcfb im scripting telegraph misdirection on every snap. Force Ricky to look the other way before locking in a receiver. Of course that means the first 2 seconds of the play are “dead time”.

We don't have the OL for that, he'd get killed.

 

[anglerman]

There's really only one reason to roll with him. The coaches are afraid to put in a young guy because they don't want him ruined psychologically or physically hurt.

I don't think we keep Rickie for next year.

I would love for him to prove me wrong.

I think the exact opposite may be possible. Maybe Luke Carney is really good and they may want to keep other programs from wanting to steal him away

 

[TheHaze315]

I think the exact opposite may be possible. Maybe Luke Carney is really good and they may want to keep other programs from wanting to steal him away

They would 100% prioritize winning over being afraid of other teams poaching a good player

 

[690West]

They would 100% prioritize winning over being afraid of other teams poaching a good player

Exactly. But you misspelled 1,000,000%

 

[upperdeck]

interesting watching the orange nation show, It was mentioned that the majority of the routes su ran with collins were 1 person / 1 zone routes. So perhaps locking on the WR was not really a thing as much as a function of trying to limit what he had to think about?

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Or spiking it on 4th down to end the game. *cough cough Cullpeper*

 

[orange44]

interesting watching the orange nation show, It was mentioned that the majority of the routes su ran with collins were 1 person / 1 zone routes. So perhaps locking on the WR was not really a thing as much as a function of trying to limit what he had to think about?

Great point. I noticed not only would he lock in on one receiver, but he also hesitated throwing the ball even when the receiver's body was completely turned, waiting for it to be thrown.

 

[RF2044]

Yeah, not sure if they realized they had a problem or not, as I'm not sure Fran would officially announce Collins as the # 1 in the Spring if he wasn't happy with his skill development and his plan was to immediately recruit over him in the Spring portal if possible??... Or maybe he just figured he's here and the best we got at the moment, so we'll announce it after Spring ball??

Obviously HCFB did what HCFB does and went after Angeli when he went into the portal, as you always upgrade where an if you can at skill positions (and especially QB) - if you can do it with the portal and have the NIL to do so nowadays...

My opinion only, but I think people read too much into the "QB #1" designation he got after the spring. He was the best of the QBs on hand, thus he was atop the depth chart.

But what Fran Brown and this staff recognize is that it is their JOB every year to recruit over the players already on the roster every year, leaving no stone unturned. And if that means bringing in a portal player, that's just the way it is.

It is also up to the incumbents to fend off newcomers to retain their starting roles and / or PT. And if they don't, then that's a good situation for the team.

That's why I thought it didn't make sense when people were up in arms about bringing in Rickie Collins because it might induce Williams to transfer. In my mind, Williams is either good enought, or he isn't. And if he isn't good enough to fend off Collins and challenge for a starting role, then we did the right thing by recruiting over him.

Ditto Collins, when Angeli became available. And nothing against Williams / Collins -- its just that QB is such a difficult position to project, and even blue chip factories landing highly rated QB recruits often have most of them not pan out.

 

[RF2044]

Agreed. I feel like folks here throw around the "special arm" compliment far too often. I'll never forget someone here raving that Perry Patterson had "the strongest arm in college football". I believe that's around the time I started goofing on the annual "deepest QB room in years" take, and that was 20 years ago!

Most guys who are P4 QBs can huck the ball fairly far. That's why they're at a P4 program. But precious few are very good passers. Collins is absolutely not a very good passer. There's no evidence of that.

Agreed. I saw a video one time when offensive guru / former NFL coach Bill Walsh talked about how so many teams fall into the trap of falling in love with arm strength. At the combine [which has admittedly changed over the years], he laughed about how some teams talk themselves into QBs over dumb reasons, like a guy being able to chuck a football 50+ yards from their knees. His take was that when is a QB ever going to throw from their knees, so who cares? His other take was that yes, arm strength is somewhat important, but as long as a guy hits the minimum threshold, he sets that criteria aside and doesn't worry about it. He was much more worried about their ability to process information quickly, and accuracy in terms of short and intermediate throws.

So whenever I hear a QB described, and all anybody talks about is their arm strength, I know that it likely means that they lack their other attributes Walsh was talking about. And I think that's what we're seeing with Rickie Collins.

 

[upperdeck]

Arm strength matters when saving plays. if you throw on time its less of an issue.

I think one issue many kids with great arms have is they tend use it too much and don't develop some of the other traits as they grow up. In HS you can save every play with a great arm. But the higher the level the harder that becomes.

 

[Blanko97]

We haven’t really seen carney or Williams play. It’s absolutely worth giving it a go with either guy.

Backup QB is always the answer until theyre not

 

[MadNY3]

I think the exact opposite may be possible. Maybe Luke Carney is really good and they may want to keep other programs from wanting to steal him away

There is no way the coaches are going to keep a better player from playing to hide them if winning is in the line. Heck, Fran called his FR OG a potential Top 10 pick. He ain’t insecure.

 

[Blanko97]

I think the exact opposite may be possible. Maybe Luke Carney is really good and they may want to keep other programs from wanting to steal him away

I think that would be a great way to ensure he transfers. You dont leave a great guy on the bench

 

[IthacaBarrel]

There is no way the coaches are going to keep a better player from playing to hide them if winning is in the line. Heck, Fran called his FR OG a potential Top 10 pick. He ain’t insecure.

agreed, everyone on that roster is here for 1 year, they can come and go at any time. Play, don't play so many will come and go for various reasons. The top 10 pick Fran spoke of will have several suitors in a few months as well. Just the world they all live in and I think Fran understands and accepts that better than so many coaches out there

 

[JRHEETER]

I really just think the game is too fast for him right now and that is okay, that is expected with a qb in their first ever start.

Lets give it a few weeks and see if he can get it before we judge him.

 

[upperdeck]

This is week 2. then a bye. He will be in week 4 when we see him again.

Maybe he improves 10% with 2 games and 4 weeks of running with the ones.

And for all the stuff that happened last week. If Cook doesn't drop 2 fumbles and We dont screw up the first end zone trip we are a reviewed pass away from probably getting into the 20s with that effort.

The D was a much worse effort for most of the game.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I happened to play about 5 holes at Drumlins with Carney. The kid has a quiet confidence about him. If he is a accurate a passer as he is a golfer ( hit the flagstick on the fly on the uphill par three 8th, from the tips, about 190 yds), I think he will do well.