Rob Moore lays the smack down

[tep624]

Wow, he's sort of exactly right, but sort of way off-base.

He's absolutely right about the type of kids and the way kids are, absolutely.

But here's the thing...every other program in the country is dealing with the same kids. That isn't unique to NY kids or Syracuse.

The only disturbing thing about this is that it doesn't imply solutions. This sounds like a guy that doesn't have the answers, only (reasonable) excuses, and that's not promising. Kids aren't changing, high school coaches aren't changing, Syracuse's weather isn't changing, and a roster full of 2-star kids aren't going to compete for championships on a regular basis.

If he doesn't get that high school coaches need to be recruited too, and kids need to be "wowed", than it doesn't matter whether he's dead right or not, he's not going to succeed at recruiting.

Syracuse is always going to have facilities and weather disadvantages, and for the time being, they also have "recent relevance" and atmosphere disadvantages. The only way to overcome that is by working twice as hard at winning over coaches and kids, not throw your hands up and play hard to get. You can take the high road, but that will eventually get you fired.

Until Syracuse builds a reputation as a winner and an NFL pipeline again, you've got to figure out how to wow kids with what you do have. Some things have been mentioned...how they take care of kids that get hurt, how well their NFL players are prepared, and the opportunity for playing time for a legendary program now competing in a top-flight league again.

But most of all, what you have to sell is the relationship, the family atmosphere, and make it "feel like home". You have to kiss some ass. It's just the way it is, and it isn't changing, and all your competitors are doing it.

And I'm not sure I agree that everyone on the staff doesn't have to be a good recruiter. They don't have to necessarilly be a phenomenal recruiter, but every bad one is a distinct disadvantage to your competitors.

The key for a program with Syracuse's current profile is the relationships. Identifying kids early, building the relationships with the staff early, getting them on campus multiple times, and keeping the coaching staff intact. Continuity and relationships can be a big seller.

I view it very simply right now as the difference between trying to sell a product domestically vs internationally. Right now, Syracuse is facing similar challenges to a US company entering a foreign market - noone really knows our product that well, they're skeptical, some people may make the plunge because they like to try new things but overall, we have a lot to prove as far as the quality of our product which in turn makes our sales cycle a lot longer than if we were selling in the US where everyone knows our product. In the 90's, everyone knew our product, even on a national basis. Now it's a challenge even regionally because of our recent past and our lack of attention to keeping up with the joneses as far as facilities. We don't have the bells and whistles facilities wise to lure kids in that are blown away by that, we don't have the recent winning history to lure kids in that are focused on that. What we have is a strong academic university with a great football tradition, but a current product that hasn't been that reliable. Until Chandler, we hadn't had a 1st rounder in who knows how long. 10-37 in the Grob years, then a glimmer of hope in 2010, followed by a 5-7 season that put us right back to square 1.

Now we've got 2 straight years with a 1st round pick, coming off a co-conference champion season and a bowl win, moving to the ACC, better facilities on the way, etc. The quality of our football product is definitely improving and starting to get some respect. But we're not at the point where it sells itself (and we may never be) and this is why it's so critical for the staff to develop and nurture the recruiting relationships. Get on them early and stay on them. Thankfully, I feel this staff understands that and we are not going to lose recruits due to lack of research or work.

The hard part for this recruiting cycle and even the next one which puts the staff at an uphill battle on most recruits is that they are late to the game. It helps tremendously that the staff has been able to leverage recruiting relationships built by McDonald while he was at Miami in Florida, and Lea in the Midwest while he was at Bowling Green.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

Why? What would be the reason to send him to one of those schools? Do you think he has a better chance at the NFL by going to one of those schools or is it about winning a NC, or that he will be better coached? Or is it because he will be babied and catered to more?

A lot of parents who don't have any allegiance will do the same, but your son would have just as good of a chance at the NFL at SU as anywhere else. The NFL has gotten pretty good at finding the talent regardless of where they went to school. IMO, it's more important to put your child in a situation where the scheme, coaching staff and environment are right for them. If those things are in place, your child has the best chance to succeed, whether it is at ND, Bama, SU or Stoney Brook. And the answer will not be the same for all kids. They're not all better off going to the most successful (W/L) programs.

Who said anything about a shot at the NFL??? My feelings have NOTHING to do with making the NFL.

I'd tell him to go to one of those universities - as opposed to SU in 2013 - so he could play at a school where:

1) Football comes first (not hoops)
2) Seemingly every game is a big game and televised nationally
3) Bowls are all but guaranteed (sorry but 'Cuse is not there yet)
4) The facilities are on par with some of the best resorts in the world
5) All home games are sold out and the on campus atmosphere is 100X times better than that of the Dome with it's 10,000+ empty seats and no tailgating

Sorry guys, but we're not ND, Michigan, Clemson or Oregon. I think we can come close to all those schools on points 2-4 above, but I'm doubtful on #1 and pretty sure we'll never get there on #5.

Even if we start winning 9-10 games a year, I'm of the opinion that the game day experience on campus will never rival that of the big guys who sell 85K or more tix per game.

I was there for the Marvin Graves years and visited for at least one home game for all of McNabb's seasons... NEVER did the game day experience feel as electric as my road trips to Penn State, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Michigan or my visits to Athens, GA and Baton Rouge, LA. Literally never.

Compared to the very elite programs, they're the Yankees in most every way - And, as of today, we're the Oakland A's. It is what it is.

And any 18 year-old kid who's being wooed by the big boys can see that plain as day.

 

[dollarbill44]

Who said anything about a shot at the NFL??? My feelings have NOTHING to do with making the NFL.

I'd tell him to go to one of those universities - as opposed to SU in 2013 - so he could play at a school where:

1) Football comes first (not hoops)
2) Seemingly every game is a big game and televised nationally
3) Bowls are all but guaranteed (sorry but 'Cuse is not there yet)
4) The facilities are on par with some of the best resorts in the world
5) All home games are sold out and the on campus atmosphere is 100X times better than that of the Dome with it's 10,000+ empty seats and no tailgating

Sorry guys, but we're not ND, Michigan, Clemson or Oregon. I think we can come close to all those schools on points 2-4 above, but I'm doubtful on #1 and pretty sure we'll never get there on #5.

Even if we start winning 9-10 games a year, I'm of the opinion that the game day experience on campus will never rival that of the big guys who sell 85K or more tix per game.

I was there for the Marvin Graves years and visited for at least one home game for all of McNabb's seasons... NEVER did the game day experience feel as electric as my road trips to Penn State, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Michigan or my visits to Athens, GA and Baton Rouge, LA. Literally never.

Compared to the very elite programs, they're the Yankees in most every way - And, as of today, we're the Oakland A's. It is what it is.

And any 18 year-old kid who's being wooed by the big boys can see that plain as day.

Well, I just assumed the NFL would be in your sights given that your hypothetical son is an elite prospect. I'm not denying that SU doesn't compare too favorably on points 1-5 above, but my point was that parents should be considering several factors (including those in your list) and that personal development should be the top priority - not just having a "good football time".
If you wouldn't even want him to consider SU, I wonder how you can really be Otto's Best Friend.:noidea:

 

[RMH44]

Well, I just assumed the NFL would be in your sights given that your hypothetical son is an elite prospect. I'm not denying that SU doesn't compare too favorably on points 1-5 above, but my point was that parents should be considering several factors (including those in your list) and that personal development should be the top priority - not just having a "good football time".
If you wouldn't even want him to consider SU, I wonder how you can really be Otto's Best Friend.:noidea:

He's not, never has been.

I've always found the irony of his handle -vs- his negative posts very amusing.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

He's not, never has been.

I've always found the irony of his handle -vs- his negative posts very amusing.

Negative and realistic are two different things.

Sorry I don't pretend everything's awesome all the time - 'cause it's not.

And forget my hypothetical "elite prospect son" for a second... You'd have a hard time convincing me, a lifelong fan of the Orange, to play football at 'Cuse if I were being recruited by some of the top football programs in America.

Basketball's another story... But football would have to be one hell of a hard sell.

 

[RMH44]

Negative and realistic are two different things.

Sorry I don't pretend everything's awesome all the time - 'cause it's not.

And forget my hypothetical "elite prospect son" for a second... You'd have a hard time convincing me, a lifelong fan of the Orange, to play football at 'Cuse if I were being recruited by some of the top football programs in America.

Basketball's another story... But football would have to be one hell of a hard sell.

So, I guess your sliding scale skews greatly toward the status associated with selecting one of the "top football programs in America".

Where, if at all, does the quality of education or opportunity to play early factor into your decision making process?

 

[Whitey23]

@NYPost_Brazille: Syracuse's Rob Moore really off to a flying start in the city, ripping kids and a few coaches. I bet UConn and Rutgers love to see that.

@NYPost_Brazille: @IBleedOrange1 Either way, he clearly ripped the Erasmus Hall coach, who is getting top shelf talent now. Not smart.

More comments on twitter from Brazille. He's someone who talks to a lot of coaches. Not good.

 

[JeremyCuse]

@NYPost_Brazille: Syracuse's Rob Moore really off to a flying start in the city, ripping kids and a few coaches. I bet UConn and Rutgers love to see that.

@NYPost_Brazille: @IBleedOrange1 Either way, he clearly ripped the Erasmus Hall coach, who is getting top shelf talent now. Not smart.

More comments on twitter from Brazille. He's someone who talks to a lot of coaches. Not good.

Exactly why Moore should have kept his mouth shut despite his commenta being pretty much spot on. This is exactly what he didnt need as a recruiter especially after the issues in NJ.

 

[Bayside44]

@NYPost_Brazille: Syracuse's Rob Moore really off to a flying start in the city, ripping kids and a few coaches. I bet UConn and Rutgers love to see that.

@NYPost_Brazille: @IBleedOrange1 Either way, he clearly ripped the Erasmus Hall coach, who is getting top shelf talent now. Not smart.

More comments on twitter from Brazille. He's someone who talks to a lot of coaches. Not good.

People have a hard time with hard truths these days. Moore said it like it is. If kids go somewhere else to ride pine so be it, and if they go to UConn well hahaha.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

So, I guess your sliding scale skews greatly toward the status associated with selecting one of the "top football programs in America".

Where, if at all, does the quality of education or opportunity to play early factor into your decision making process?

Quality of Education: So Syracuse is far and away a better school than say Michigan, USC, Notre Dame, Miami, Wisconsin, Penn State, Florida, Ohio State, or Texas? Because US News and World Report would disagree. And the thing is, I never said I'd want my son to go to a horrible school - just that if he wanted to play at an elite program, I'd support that decision. And there are plenty of elite football programs with academics that are rated better than (see above) or similar to Syracuse (Georgia, Texas A&M, Clemson, Va Tech, Michigan St., Alabama).

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/spp+50

As for the "opportunity to play early" - I'm not an 18 year-old kid. So I recognize the benefit of watching, learning and growing as you take advantage of a red shirt year and play behind senior leaders for a season or two. So my rationale in this department might not match with the mindset of your typical recruit. That said, I'd be sure to discuss it with my hypothetical "elite prospect son."

But to assume my hypothetical son can't play because he chose to a top-20 program instead of Syracuse is ridiculous.

Are you suggesting none of the players on a Syracuse roster could compete for playing time if they were on top teams in the SEC or B1G?

And I'm not talking about the kids that came hear unranked or with only two stars... We're talking about the very good 3 and 4 star guys. Remember, for the sake of this argument, my kid is an "elite" prospect.

This whole, "won't play elsewhere" sentiment been a repeated argument in here and it makes no sense. Not sure where the theory that kids who don't choose SU will undoubtedly ride the pine elsewhere came from, but it's false.

Mike Hart did pretty well at Michigan no?
Michael Vick chose VA Tech over SU and it worked out pretty good for him, right?

Those two were off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are dozens of examples from the last 15+ years of top level kids going to bigger programs (rather than Cuse) who ended up succeeding. (Just as I'm sure there are examples of failure - so no need to point them out)

Kids can and do succeed when they select other schools after considering 'Cuse... Happens all the time.

And as much as many of you would like it to be true, they don't all ride the bench and fade into oblivion as if it were some sort of orange karmic punishment.