Ron Morris refuses to rank SU basketball

[Flacusian]

Morris is one of the reasons that there are more horses a$$es than there are horses in America.

 

[Cadillac]

He has a history of disliking SU.

http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2012/01/syracuse_basketball_ap_poll_vo.html

I'm guessing the blowback from this is why he's not ranking us. One of you hurt his widdle feewings.

 

[PoppyHart]

We could sneak in next week after Davidson's loss.

 

[fanfanclubclub]

what is he protesting? that a closeted gay man was outed? that the uni fired an innocent man before all the facts were known? or is he still laboring under the impression that SU is really Sandusky U?

The facts regarding the weak internal investigation and shortcomings in reporting the allegations of Fine's relationship with the under-aged Bobby Davis are sufficient to warrant someone's protest in the rankings. It's a small thing to complain about considering the circumstances.

 

[RF2044]

The facts regarding the weak internal investigation and shortcomings in reporting the allegations of Fine's relationship with the under-aged Bobby Davis are sufficient to warrant someone's protest in the rankings. It's a small thing to complain about considering the circumstances.

You mean the internal investigation that was largely exonerated in July by a third-party law firm tasked with evaluating the quality of the University's response in 2005? And the allegations that there is still 100% no corroborating evidence to support, which the Feds just announced they will no longer be investigating?

It isn't a small thing to complain about. The facts are out there--a voter like Morris shouldn't be able to bury his head in the sand and come up with his own version of what the truth is to justify his rationalized personal biases.

 

[br801]

The facts regarding the weak internal investigation and shortcomings in reporting the allegations of Fine's relationship with the under-aged Bobby Davis are sufficient to warrant someone's protest in the rankings. It's a small thing to complain about considering the circumstances.

There are appropriate avenues through which Morris can protest whatever it is he is protesting. This isn't one of them. The AP should remove this attention whore from their panel of voters.

 

[fanfanclubclub]

largely exonerated

You are incorrect to say that there is no corroborating evidence: the Laurie Fine tape is corroborating evidence under legal and investigatory standards. It is simply not admissible, because it is hearsay. You are not speaking legally. It has been announced that charges would have been brought if not for the SoL, and it was always obvious that the Fed's had jurisdiction issues: and yet there was enough evidence to meet investigatory standards to sustain a year long Federal investigation. Your incorrect analysis undermines the University's decision, the University's admission of its shortcomings, and makes our fan base look a little Central Pennsylvanian.

There's no way to reason with some of the Nittany Lions on this board, I'm just adding the small dash of reality to this otherwise classless thread, including the profanity and maliciousness you are directing at this reporter (an admittedly poor reporter). The University strongly stands behind it's decision to fire Fine, fans should support the University on this.

 

[armory]

And Ron Morris matters because ____________ :noidea:

Because people think he matters enough to give him a vote for the AP poll. Either Ron Morris "matters" enough to warrant a vote, or the AP poll should cease to "matter" for giving morons like this a vote.

It isn't unreasonable to say that the AP poll has at least some influence on the seeding in March. Under that presumption, the integrity of the poll should be maintained to at least some degree with some level of a standard... a standard which should exclude douches like Ron Morris.

 

[armory]

You are incorrect to say that there is no corroborating evidence: the Laurie Fine tape is corroborating under legal standards. You are not speaking legally.

"Legally" speaking, the SOL expired a long time ago and the tape is therefor entirely irrelevant due to the lack of any "crime" to corroborate.

 

[RF2044]

You are incorrect to say that there is no corroborating evidence: the Laurie Fine tape is corroborating under legal standards. You are not speaking legally.

There's no way to reason with some of the Nittany Lions on this board, I'm just adding the small dash of reality to this otherwise classless thread, including the profanity and maliciousness you are directing at this reporter (an admittedly poor reporter). The University strongly stands behind it's decision to fire Fine, fans should support the University on this.

In the immortal words of Lionel Hutz, I suppose that heresy and conjecture are KINDS of evidence...

It is also speculative, legally speaking.

I love the indignation, however. Nice touch. But you might want to do a better job grasping the facts of what you are criticizing. Moqui's post above that elicited your response was 100% correct.

 

[fanfanclubclub]

"Legally" speaking, the SOL expired a long time ago and the tape is therefor entirely irrelevant due to the lack of any "crime" to corroborate.

No, Statutes of Limitations do not have any bearing on the legal concept of "relevance." Evidence can still be relevant, but the State would lack the jurisdiction to bring charges on such evidence because there are no "common law crimes" in the American adoption of the British common law system: accordingly criminal jurisdiction must be statutory. Evidence can still be legally relevant for investigative and civil purposes regardless of criminal jurisdiction, as "crimes" are not the only types of misdeeds that can be corroborated. Nittany Lions fans talk a lot about innocence because of SoLs too. Let's leave that to them.

 

[armory]

No, Statutes of Limitations do not have any bearing on the legal concept of "relevance." Evidence can still be relevant, but the State would lack the jurisdiction to bring charges on such evidence because there are no "common law crimes" in the American adoption of the British common law system: accordingly criminal jurisdiction must be statutory. Evidence can still be legally relevant for investigative and civil purposes regardless of criminal jurisdiction.

OK ... then what charges is it relevant for? What crime? Under that definition everything everyone does every day is corroborating evidence to a crime that doesn't exist.

 

[fanfanclubclub]

OK ... then what charges is it relevant for? What crime? Under that definition everything everyone does every day is corroborating evidence to a crime that doesn't exist.

In the civil, administrative, educational, and other arenas, there are other forms of misdeeds that are significant, but do not amount to "crimes." Syracuse University fired Bernie Fine for such a misdeed, after re-investigating the Bobby Davis allegations.

No, not "every thing that everybody does every day" corroborates a non-existing crime. Laurie Fine's tape, however, does corroborate some of Bobby Davis's allegations. Admittedly, there are SoL issues criminally, and hearsay issues generally. Since the University fired Fine over the allegations and their findings, no Syracuse fans should crow about innocence or being "largely exonerated." Is this really disputed or difficult?

Syracuse fired Fine for cause, regarding Bobby Davis. I hope Fine is innocent, but let's not pretend there isn't any tragically alarming evidence. Stand behind the University.

 

[armory]

In the civil, administrative, educational, and other arenas, there are other forms of misdeeds that are significant, but do not amount to "crimes." Syracuse University fired Bernie Fine for such a misdeed, after re-investigating the Bobby Davis allegations.

Which would fall into the realm of the subjective and common sense... and wouldn't be "legally speaking".

 

[fanfanclubclub]

Which would fall into the realm of the subjective and common sense... and wouldn't be "legally speaking".

Haha no, there is "civil law," and there is "administrative law," and most major University's are even governed by (not only their own internal "Statutes") State statutes, although this may not be true for a private school like Cuse.

 

[RF2044]

In the civil, administrative, educational, and other arenas, there are other forms of misdeeds that are significant, but do not amount to "crimes." Syracuse University fired Bernie Fine for such a misdeed, after re-investigating the Bobby Davis allegations.

No, not "every thing that everybody does every day" corroborates a non-existing crime. Laurie Fine's tape, however, does corroborate some of Bobby Davis's allegations, however. Admittedly, there are SoL issues criminally, and hearsay issues generally. Since the University fired Fine over the allegations and their findings, no Syracuse fans should crow about innocence or being "largely exonerated." Is this really disputed or difficult?

Syracuse fired Fine for cause, regarding Bobby Davis. Stand behind the University.

Syracuse University fired Bernie fine due to the groundswell of bad publicity, occurring at a volatile, politically charged time in the aftermath of the Penn State scandal. He was originally placed on administrative leave, and only fired after the negative brand / reputational hit outweighed any benefit of retaining him. He was not terminated for any "misdeed," and the ensuing year has revealed this scandal for what it was--character assassination. Is this really disputed or difficult?

And BTW, the University had no choice doing what they did, at the time when they did it. That doesn't equate to Bernie being guilty of a crime or misdeed.

 

[cusetown1]

Maybe Ron and Mark are dating?

 

[fanfanclubclub]

Syracuse University fired Bernie fine due to the groundswell of bad publicity, ... He was not terminated for any "misdeed,"

No, that's Nittany Lion-esq spin. Read the press releases, Syracuse fired Bernie Fine for cause. The firing happened when the Laurie tape came out because the Laurie tape corroborates some of the allegations. That was the University's decision.

No luck trying to reason with our Cuse brothers of the Central Pennsylvanian perspective, just correcting the record.

 

[RF2044]

No, that's Nittany Lion-esq spin. Read the press releases, Syracuse fired Bernie Fine for cause. The firing happened when the Laurie tape came out because the Laurie tape corroborates some of the allegations. That was the University's decision.

It's not spin at all--rather, it is objective analysis from someone without any personal connection to the University, based upon the way the events of the past year have unfolded. Your characterization of this as "Nittany Lion-esque" is insulting, sensationalist, juvenile, and asinine, and above all demonstrates that you do not have an adequate grasp of the relevant facts.

Pretty much par for the course with your argumentative schtick.

 

[Knicks411]

It isn't unreasonable to say that the AP poll has at least some influence on the seeding in March. Under that presumption, the integrity of the poll should be maintained to at least some degree with some level of a standard... a standard which should exclude douches like Ron Morris.

I think Lunardi says that there are times it does matter at the very top of the polls; though I'm not sure if he ever provided evidence for it. I don't think it matters much at all, but that should be irrelevant anyway. It's not any of the voters jobs to bring non basketball stuff into the ranking.

 

[moqui]

No, that's Nittany Lion-esq spin. Read the press releases, Syracuse fired Bernie Fine for cause. The firing happened when the Laurie tape came out because the Laurie tape corroborates some of the allegations. That was the University's decision.

No luck trying to reason with our Cuse brothers of the Central Pennsylvanian perspective, just correcting the record.

there is nothing dispositive in the Fine tape . . . there is indication of a relationship, but dates and ages that could settle the argument are studiously avoided by the grifter Davis.

Fine's responses to Davis' leading questions are murky at best; his motives, much less so.

 

[br801]

No, that's Nittany Lion-esq spin. Read the press releases, Syracuse fired Bernie Fine for cause. The firing happened when the Laurie tape came out because the Laurie tape corroborates some of the allegations. That was the University's decision.

No luck trying to reason with our Cuse brothers of the Central Pennsylvanian perspective, just correcting the record.

Your need to link what happened here with the Penn State situation is curious, at best. Did you even follow these stories?

 

[fanfanclubclub]

Your characterization is insulting, juvenile, and asinine.

Pretty much par for the course with your argumentative schtick.

Nice fact-based, response.

I was planning on merely being insulting (to a certain type), but then I was inspired by the post where you told some journalist to **** off because he was trying to protest the abuse of minors. RF, always so forward and helpful with your lesson in interwebs classiness.

 

[RMH44]

Exactly. Who cares, the more you make a deal of it the better he feels about himself.

This isn't football and the BCS, regardless of this douchebucket we will still be highly seeded come march and able to win it all.

exactly...I think he is a transplanted CNY'er and former syracuse dot com poster.

 

[fanfanclubclub]

there is nothing dispositive in the Fine tape . . . there is indication of a relationship, but dates and ages that could settle the argument are studiously avoided by the grifter Davis.

Fine's responses to Davis' leading questions are murky at best; his motives, much less so.

No one was saying that there was anything criminally "dispositive" in the Laurie Fine tape. By definition, if there was anything criminally dispositive, Fine would be guilty: such is the meaning of the word. Whether or not certain evidence is given dispositive weight is decided by the finder of fact, which would be a jury if the SoL had not prevented State charges. We all know that Fine has not been found criminally guilty, so because of this fact, the tape cannot be criminally dispositive.

The tape was dispositive regarding a certain inquiry, however: whether the circumstances within the Fine household existed, whereby, Bobby Davis' allegations of abuse were plausible and corroborated by collateral facts.

"Corroborating evidence" and "dispositive evidence" are very different standards. Investigative officials from both Federal and State levels have announced that there was corroborating evidence sufficient to warrant lengthy investigations, and in the State's opinion: justifying criminal charges. The University found enough evidence corroborating the allegations of misdeeds that they fired for cause.

If you want to say, "Let's hope the best for Bernie, there was no dispositive evidence," I think that is great and I share the sentiment and hope. If you instead pretend that there isn't anything remotely reasonable for Morris to protest, and join in with the others directing animosity his way: that looks poor, and is poor.