Ron Morris refuses to rank SU basketball

[moqui]

No one was saying that there was anything criminally "dispositive" in the Laurie Fine tape. By definition, if there was anything criminally dispositive, Fine would be guilty: such is the meaning of the word. Whether or not certain evidence is given dispositive weight is decided by the finder of fact, which would be a jury if the SoL had not prevented State charges. We all know that Fine has not been found criminally guilty, so because of this fact, the tape cannot be dispositive.

"Corroborating evidence" and "dispositive evidence" are very different standards. Investigative officials from both Federal and State levels have announced that there was corroborating evidence sufficient to warrant lengthy investigations, and in the State's opinion: justifying criminal charges. The University found enough evidence corroborating the allegations of misdeeds that they fired for cause.

If you want to say, "Let's hope the best for Bernie, there was no dispositive evidence," I think that is great and I share the sentiment and hope. If you instead pretend that there isn't anything remotely reasonable for Morris to protest, and join in with the others directing animosity his way: that looks poor, and is poor.

you have demonstrated a command of the legal rhetoric, but you have not addressed the key point of my post: there is nothing - repeat NOTHING - in the Laurie Fine tape that indicates there was a sexual relationship between Bernie Fine and Bobby Davis when the latter was of minor age. Indeed, it is clear that Davis studiously avoids putting dates or ages on tape. That might be just an oversight by a not-so-bright guy, but it might also be because he knew that he was not underage and his creation of the tape was designed for other purposes.

 

[fanfanclubclub]

there is nothing - repeat NOTHING - in the Laurie Fine tape that indicates there was a sexual relationship between Bernie Fine and Bobby Davis when the latter was of minor age.

No one disputes that the age of Bobby Davis, and other such crucial details regarding criminal guilt are unresolved, and in the criminal context, I am glad we have the presumption of guilt. In non-criminal contexts, however, it is irresponsible to pretend to be clueless as to what Morris could possibly be protesting. The evidence that did come out is alarming, tragic and shocking, the University did the right thing by finding fault, firing for cause, and admitting shortcomings, and Cuse fans should stop directing hate towards a journalist who is clearly just trying to protest what he feels is a case of abuse of a minor.

Clinging to the fact that the public evidence falls short of proving that the young man was a minor is just poor form. It's not as if I started this thread to bring up old Bernie stuff, but instead, a bunch of people starting directing profanity at a national sports reporter: while offering up factually inaccurate Penn State impressions, and there was not a single moderate or 'respect-for-the-possible-victims" post in the whole thread.

Let's end this debate by acknowledging that the allegations are tragically more plausible than any of us feared, and let's not be hateful towards a journalist, or fans, who are still shocked and concerned about what might have occurred. Using a vote to protest is entirely appropriate: hardly anything is more discretionary than a vote that is awarded to credentialed professionals. I'm not saying he isn't a moron, I'm not saying votes aren't misused, I am just saying that votes are almost the definition of discretionary expression. It's an appropriate forum for making a minor protest.

 

[moqui]

it is irresponsible to pretend to be clueless as to what Morris could possibly be protesting.

if it was a year ago, or 8 months ago, yes. But not now. His protest in November 2012 is founded on utter ignorance.

The evidence that did come out is alarming, tragic and shocking,

just what "evidence" are you talking about? The false accusations, the recantations? the only things I found alarming, tragic and shocking was the rush to judgement in the first place, and the hardened position that you are now taking. The only evidence against Bernie is the word of an acknowledged grifter (Davis) and a very tepid corroboration by Lang, who not even Gloria Allred was comfortable with.

Clinging to the fact that the public evidence falls short of proving that the young man was a minor is just poor form.

the fact that I am clinging to is that there is no good evidence that anything illegal or untoward happened.

Let's end this debate by acknowledging that the allegations are tragically more plausible than any of us feared

I don't agree to that at all.

 

[IthacaMatt]

There are appropriate avenues through which Morris can protest whatever it is he is protesting. This isn't one of them. The AP should remove this attention whore from their panel of voters.

Exactly. This is an honor for those in his profession - it's not a right to get to vote in the AP poll, and if you don't take it seriously, you should be replaced by someone who does. Just like coaches who don't take their votes seriously in the coaches poll ought to be replaced by someone who does.

 

[armory]

I was planning on merely being insulting (to a certain type)

Really no place for that here IMO.

 

[IthacaMatt]

No one disputes that the age of Bobby Davis, and other such crucial details regarding criminal guilt are unresolved, and in the criminal context, I am glad we have the presumption of guilt. In non-criminal contexts, however, it is irresponsible to pretend to be clueless as to what Morris could possibly be protesting. The evidence that did come out is alarming, tragic and shocking, the University did the right thing by finding fault, firing for cause, and admitting shortcomings, and Cuse fans should stop directing hate towards a journalist who is clearly just trying to protest what he feels is a case of abuse of a minor.

Clinging to the fact that the public evidence falls short of proving that the young man was a minor is just poor form. It's not as if I started this thread to bring up old Bernie stuff, but instead, a bunch of people starting directing profanity at a national sports reporter: while offering up factually inaccurate Penn State impressions, and there was not a single moderate or 'respect-for-the-possible-victims" post in the whole thread.

Let's end this debate by acknowledging that the allegations are tragically more plausible than any of us feared, and let's not be hateful towards a journalist, or fans, who are still shocked and concerned about what might have occurred. Using a vote to protest is entirely appropriate: hardly anything is more discretionary than a vote that is awarded to credentialed professionals. I'm not saying he isn't a moron, I'm not saying votes aren't misused, I am just saying that votes are almost the definition of discretionary expression. It's an appropriate forum for making a minor protest.

You are going a bit "kangaroo court" here and are making major assumptions that are very likely false. First, if Bobby Davis' older brother was a ball boy first, and claimed he was molested, why would he encourage his younger brother to do it?

It all starts and ends right there, really. You are the one ignoring evidence. You have to buy that premise, which is absurd on its face, to believe any of the rest of it. And it is equally clear that Davis has been in this all along to get money. He's a blackmailer, plain and simple, and it's quite remarkable that he's not in jail yet.

 

[IthacaMatt]

there is nothing dispositive in the Fine tape . . . there is indication of a relationship, but dates and ages that could settle the argument are studiously avoided by the grifter Davis.

Fine's responses to Davis' leading questions are murky at best; his motives, much less so.

And for a tape that was intended to elicit proof of underage molestation, it really failed miserably. I mean, the tape was cut and pasted together from more than 1 conversation, as I recall, and it never really came out and said what was implied.

 

[bnoro]

FanFanClubClub is Ron Morris using a straw man to deflect criticism from his not putting Syracuse in the top 25?

 

[RF2044]

Nice fact-based, response.

I was planning on merely being insulting (to a certain type), but then I was inspired by the post where you told some journalist to **** off because he was trying to protest the abuse of minors. RF, always so forward and helpful with your lesson in interwebs classiness.

What you apparently need is a lesson in reading comprehension. I never told this journalist to off, which makes your sanctimonious defense of profane attacks directed toward Morris silly and as off-target as your interpretation of the content of the Laurie Fine / Davis audio tape or suggesting that what Morris is doing has anything to do with protesting "the abuse of minors."

Go find another cause to ambulance chase.

 

[dollarbill44]

No one disputes that the age of Bobby Davis, and other such crucial details regarding criminal guilt are unresolved, and in the criminal context, I am glad we have the presumption of guilt. In non-criminal contexts, however, it is irresponsible to pretend to be clueless as to what Morris could possibly be protesting. The evidence that did come out is alarming, tragic and shocking, the University did the right thing by finding fault, firing for cause, and admitting shortcomings, and Cuse fans should stop directing hate towards a journalist who is clearly just trying to protest what he feels is a case of abuse of a minor.

Clinging to the fact that the public evidence falls short of proving that the young man was a minor is just poor form. It's not as if I started this thread to bring up old Bernie stuff, but instead, a bunch of people starting directing profanity at a national sports reporter: while offering up factually inaccurate Penn State impressions, and there was not a single moderate or 'respect-for-the-possible-victims" post in the whole thread.

Let's end this debate by acknowledging that the allegations are tragically more plausible than any of us feared, and let's not be hateful towards a journalist, or fans, who are still shocked and concerned about what might have occurred. Using a vote to protest is entirely appropriate: hardly anything is more discretionary than a vote that is awarded to credentialed professionals. I'm not saying he isn't a moron, I'm not saying votes aren't misused, I am just saying that votes are almost the definition of discretionary expression. It's an appropriate forum for making a minor protest.

You are making assumptions about SU's firing of Fine. Firing "for cause" does not necessarily mean that they found any corroborating evidence of criminal activity. In fact, people get fired "for cause" all the time for less than criminal actions. Any action of an employee that brings embarrassment to an employer can be "cause" for dismissal. For example, many people have been fired for Facebook postings or "tweets" on Twitter accounts because things that were written were deemed shameful and inappropriate and potentially damaging to their employer. It is not a leap of faith to suggest that the overwhelming embarrassment that the recorded telephone conversation brought on the University was sufficient "cause" to terminate Bernie Fine's employment and his ability to be an effective employee had been completely compromised.

Unless you have inside sources at SU that you have not alluded to, you are merely speculating on the actual cause being corroboration of criminal molestation of minors by Bernie Fine. The University never made any such statements.

 

[JOC44]

Let's end this debate by acknowledging that the allegations are tragically more plausible than any of us feared, and let's not be hateful towards a journalist, or fans, who are still shocked and concerned about what might have occurred. Using a vote to protest is entirely appropriate: hardly anything is more discretionary than a vote that is awarded to credentialed professionals. I'm not saying he isn't a moron, I'm not saying votes aren't misused, I am just saying that votes are almost the definition of discretionary expression. It's an appropriate forum for making a minor protest.

I guess I will start by saying, having read this thread, for the love of God I hope you are not a lawyer.

Beyond that, the part I quoted above is simply nonsensical. Ron Morris isn't "credentialed" by AP because it feels he is an expert on morality or ethics, or law. He is credentialed on the assumption that he is able to evaluate basketball teams (I know that many AP voters know little on this subject but the premise is that they are the voters because their collective wisdom will yield a correct result). For the life of me, I can't figure out why "using a vote to protest is entirely appropriate." AP presumably wants represetnative results, ones that are based on the teams' merits on the court, not a hodgepodge of votes based on who has an axe to grind with whom.

When a voter uses his vote based not on merit but based on protests and other criteria, it degrades the AP poll and AP can't want that.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

You are going a bit "kangaroo court" here and are making major assumptions that are very likely false. First, if Bobby Davis' older brother was a ball boy first, and claimed he was molested, why would he encourage his younger brother to do it?

It all starts and ends right there, really. You are the one ignoring evidence. You have to buy that premise, which is absurd on its face, to believe any of the rest of it. And it is equally clear that Davis has been in this all along to get money. He's a blackmailer, plain and simple, and it's quite remarkable that he's not in jail yet.

Don't forget the article about Mike Lang where at a celebration for BF -which took place after the PS reporters taped conversation with ML about BDs allegations - where ML asked if Bernie could get MLs kids a gig as ball boys.

Not only does ML appear to be making up his allegations, but to me it is also pretty clear that ML didn't believe BDs story. I am really hoping a good lawyer gets a crack at ML and BD.

 

[MSOrange]

Good thing we got rid of the Fine Mess Board!

 

[dasher]

No one disputes that the age of Bobby Davis, and other such crucial details regarding criminal guilt are unresolved, and in the criminal context, I am glad we have the presumption of guilt. In non-criminal contexts, however, it is irresponsible to pretend to be clueless as to what Morris could possibly be protesting. The evidence that did come out is alarming, tragic and shocking, the University did the right thing by finding fault, firing for cause, and admitting shortcomings, and Cuse fans should stop directing hate towards a journalist who is clearly just trying to protest what he feels is a case of abuse of a minor.

Clinging to the fact that the public evidence falls short of proving that the young man was a minor is just poor form. It's not as if I started this thread to bring up old Bernie stuff, but instead, a bunch of people starting directing profanity at a national sports reporter: while offering up factually inaccurate Penn State impressions, and there was not a single moderate or 'respect-for-the-possible-victims" post in the whole thread.

Let's end this debate by acknowledging that the allegations are tragically more plausible than any of us feared, and let's not be hateful towards a journalist, or fans, who are still shocked and concerned about what might have occurred. Using a vote to protest is entirely appropriate: hardly anything is more discretionary than a vote that is awarded to credentialed professionals. I'm not saying he isn't a moron, I'm not saying votes aren't misused, I am just saying that votes are almost the definition of discretionary expression. It's an appropriate forum for making a minor protest.

Just so you know, I traded texts with Morris. He isn't protesting against Syracuse because of the Fine story. He didn't think they were a top 25 team. He ranks the top 25 players at every position and decides his rankings from that. No kidding. He believes that Syracuse will be top 25 by the end of the season if not before. Like next week. Also, the Laurie Fine tape proved nothing. Proof. Both ESPN and the Post Standard had the tape for years and wouldn't even run the story. Let alone would Law enforcement get a conviction from it. The Feds searched for evidence beyond Zach who everyone came to realize was a wingnut, and could find nothing. At some point, there has to be evidence. Our D.A. took a cowards way out. He saw what happened to JB when JB dared speak in defense of Fine. So, he said I would have tried that man. If only I could. But I can't,so I can't try him and lose. It was one of the most disgraceful things I have ever seen a D.A. do in any district and I go back to when southern D.A.'s wouldn't try racists for attacks on blacks. At least you knew where you stood with those guys. With Fitz, you just have a coward.

 

[kirbivore]

He really doesn't, you're right. However, if he isn't going to vote for a team based on a botched ESPN/Schwartz investigation, he should have his voting power taken away from him. That guy is an asshat.

It is unreal how you are guilty until proven innocent, but even with the Feds dropping their case, you are still "guilty".

Just imagine that clowns like this still have a hand in determining the college football champ another year. :crazy:

 

[IthacaMatt]

Just so you know, I traded texts with Morris. He isn't protesting against Syracuse because of the Fine story. He didn't think they were a top 25 team. He ranks the top 25 players at every position and decides his rankings from that. No kidding. He believes that Syracuse will be top 25 by the end of the season if not before. Like next week. Also, the Laurie Fine tape proved nothing. Proof. Both ESPN and the Post Standard had the tape for years and wouldn't even run the story. Let alone would Law enforcement get a conviction from it. The Feds searched for evidence beyond Zach who everyone came to realize was a wingnut, and could find nothing. At some point, there has to be evidence. Our D.A. took a cowards way out. He saw what happened to JB when JB dared speak in defense of Fine. So, he said I would have tried that man. If only I could. But I can't,so I can't try him and lose. It was one of the most disgraceful things I have ever seen a D.A. do in any district and I go back to when southern D.A.'s wouldn't try racists for attacks on blacks. At least you knew where you stood with those guys. With Fitz, you just have a coward.

If Bernie was a pedophile, they would have found evidence - videos on his computer, pictures he took, letters to the kids (remember the claim about there being angry accusatory letters from parents that he had supposedly kept - where were they, then?). They went thru his house, they spoke to 100 people. You think if he was that type of person, they would have found SOMETHING. They didn't. Case closed. Remember, people go to jail for child porn. If he was a pedophile, don't you think he would have had some on his computer?

 

[Rocco]

Just so you know, I traded texts with Morris. He isn't protesting against Syracuse because of the Fine story. He didn't think they were a top 25 team. He ranks the top 25 players at every position and decides his rankings from that. No kidding. He believes that Syracuse will be top 25 by the end of the season if not before.

Well Syracuse beat ranked SDSU. In San Diego.

This guy is an asshat. How do dolts like this guy deserve a vote? Since when do individual rankings have ANYTHING to do with how a TEAM will perform together? This is assinine.

 

[arbitragegls]

You are incorrect to say that there is no corroborating evidence: the Laurie Fine tape is corroborating evidence under legal and investigatory standards. It is simply not admissible, because it is hearsay. You are not speaking legally. It has been announced that charges would have been brought if not for the SoL, and it was always obvious that the Fed's had jurisdiction issues: and yet there was enough evidence to meet investigatory standards to sustain a year long Federal investigation. Your incorrect analysis undermines the University's decision, the University's admission of its shortcomings, and makes our fan base look a little Central Pennsylvanian.

There's no way to reason with some of the Nittany Lions on this board, I'm just adding the small dash of reality to this otherwise classless thread, including the profanity and maliciousness you are directing at this reporter (an admittedly poor reporter). The University strongly stands behind it's decision to fire Fine, fans should support the University on this.

Whoa...unfortunately your indication of corroborating evidence turned out to be truly circumstantial...which led to rush of judgement. Political correctness led the University to cut ties with Bernie...JB stood beside his coach until the avalanche of supposed fact became overwhelming. Unfortunately for all, the Fine case seems to be one where the look alike duck was not a duck...and the rush for guilt was not supported by the weight of the supposed legal facts of the Fine case...therefore the Feds backed off...and that is a one in a million setback after the dollars and time spent by the Feds.
So please fanfanclub it is time for you to back off.
More importantly, Ron Morris has a right to vote as he sees fit...AND THE POINT HERE IS THAT HE WAS NOT PROTESTING THE FINE CASE IN ANYWAY...thanks to Dasher, it appears that Morris has a system that is just plain ridiculous. May we now move on to other things...including as threaded before, the ACC would most likely embrace Penn State to our conference...have a nice day and please...another Jack and Coke.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Just so you know, I traded texts with Morris. He isn't protesting against Syracuse because of the Fine story. He didn't think they were a top 25 team. He ranks the top 25 players at every position and decides his rankings from that. No kidding.

Not having us ranked really damages the face validity of his wacky system.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[SmilinBob]

Just imagine that clowns like this still have a hand in determining the college football champ another year. :crazy:

Maybe one of the reasons the SEC has 5 top ten teams in football. You have to love agenda lovin voters.

 

[SmilinBob]

Not having us ranked really damages the face validity of his wacky system.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Luckily regarding basketball, asshats like this guy don't matter but having too many of them in football really hurts when bias/agenda is their reason for their votes.

 

[sutomcat]

Luckily regarding basketball, asshats like this guy don't matter but having too many of them in football really hurts when bias/agenda is their reason for their votes.

This guy has been doing this for years. Here is a link to a story the PS did on him in January, when he was voting an undefeated SU team 4th in the country based on a 'feeling'.

 

[SmilinBob]

Thanks Tom, again it really doesn't bother me regarding basketball but regarding football it simply reeks of agenda. Funny how a win in Florida vs Florida still didn't impress him, probably annoyed there were more SU fans there than UF had.

 

[thebigeast44]

dasher - Send him another note and ask him to name 24 other point guards better than MCW, 24 other shooting guards better than Brandon, 24 other small forwards better than CJ, 24 other 6th men better than James and 24 other frontcourts better than ours. Guy is clueless to say the least.

 

[realorange]

Take it from someone in SC, you are talking about an insignificant reporter for an insignificant newspaper. Save your energy for something important.