Rotation

[Sherman20]

This is on the staff. It’s not just JB. The assistants need to be able to tell JB what he doesn’t want to hear. I have no confidence they can even if JB will say otherwise publicly because JB sez things.

Our players aren’t good enough to play these crazy minutes. How do players get better?

I understand your argument and share your frustration, but I believe it’s worth thinking deeper about JB’s rationale for this tendency he has to play certain guys big minutes and give other guys, with seemingly similar talents or skill sets, very little playing time. Remember in 2016-17 when he chose to go with Gillon over Frank at PG? At the time, he said that Gillon was probably playing better—“just a little bit better”—than Frank. But instead of roughly splitting their minutes or just giving Gillon 25-30 minutes and Frank the leftovers, he said we’re going to go with one guy for the bulk of the time. The idea, I think, is that he wants the chosen player (who he sees as more ready to contribute) to get comfortable faster and relax and not have to worry about being pulled for a mistake. He wants to speed up their development. It’s the flip side of our arguments to get Goodine or Washington more minutes at guard, for example. Any minutes you give to Goodine or Washington takes away from Girard’s time learning the PG position and getting better at it. If you split the game-playing minutes between, say, Girard and Goodine at PG, they’re arguably going to improve at a lesser/slower rate if you’re playing them less time. (As college freshman, especially, the improvement can come exponentially as they get more game experience.) I think the idea is to get Girard as much experience/minutes playing PG before conference play starts in order to get him up to speed and ready to compete in the ACC. Likewise with Buddy, who’s only a sophomore. He has a lot of improvement to make on the defensive end and in learning how to pick his spots getting into the lane, so the staff wants to get him as much game experience as possible... It sort of speaks to that Malcolm Gladwell concept that it takes a certain amount of hours of deliberate practice (10,000) to become an expert in any field.

Anyway, it’s food for thought. JB must have several rationales for running certain guys heavy minutes. Part of it, of course, is that even a tired starter is better than an inexperienced bench player. But he’s proven in the past to be fine splitting minutes when it’s warranted and the talent is close to the same or the players offer slightly different skill sets/advantages (Triche and Scoop, for example, at the PG position).

 

[Alsacs]

I understand your argument and your frustration, but I believe it’s worth thinking deeper about JB’s rationale for this tendency he has to play certain guys big minutes and give other guys, with seemingly similar talents or skill sets, very little playing time. Remember in 2016-17 when he chose to go with Gillon over Frank at PG? At the time, he said that Gillon was probably playing better—“just a little bit better”—than Frank. But instead of roughly splitting their minutes or just giving Gillon 25-30 minutes and Frank the leftovers, he said we’re going to go with one guy for the bulk of the time. The idea, I think, is that he wants the chosen player (who he sees as more ready to contribute) to get comfortable faster and relax and not have to worry about being pulled for a mistake. He wants to speed up their development. It’s the flip side of our arguments to get Goodine or Washington more minutes at guard, for example. Any minutes you give to Goodine or Washington takes away from Girard’s time learning the PG position and getting better at it. If you split the game-playing minutes between, say, Girard and Goodine at PG, they’re arguably going to improve at a lesser/slower rate if you’re playing them less time. (As college freshman, especially, the improvement can come exponentially as they get more game experience.) I think the idea is to get Girard as much experience/minutes playing PG before conference play starts in order to get him up to speed and ready to compete in the ACC. Likewise with Buddy, who’s only a sophomore. He has a lot of improvement to make on the defensive end and in learning how to pick his spots getting into the lane, so the staff wants to get him as much game experience as possible... It sort of speaks to that Malcolm Gladwell concept that it takes a certain amount of hours of deliberate practice (10,000) to become an expert in any field.

Anyway, it’s food for thought. JB must have several rationales for running certain guys heavy minutes. Part of it, of course, is that even a tired starter is better than an inexperienced bench player. But he’s proven in the past to be fine splitting minutes when it’s warranted and the talent is close to the same or the players offer slightly different skill sets/advantages (Triche and Scoop, for example, at the PG position).

Good post.
My problem is this HC treats every game like an elimination game. That makes sense when you have the horses to keep for a title.
This team isn’t winning squat this year. Instead of trying to Win and improve the program in the future its what we got.
A coach who is 75 and is entrenched should worry about the direction of the program not winning every single game he doesn’t have to worry about job security. i legit worry about the next 2-3 years. I don’t have confidence to just not worry about the coach will address our weaknesses as he hasn’t. It’s I am going to do it my way no matter how good the players are and what we need to upgrade.

 

[Sherman20]

He looked solid against Bucknell when he got PT.
Goodine was a higher rated recruit than Girard.
Girard is playing PG.
Goodine is a SG.
Buddy can’t sit because he is a better shooter.
If Goodine gets better whose minutes next year will he get?

Goodine looked decent earlier in the season. He seemed to be getting a little more comfortable each game. He had some good drives and kick-outs to 3-point shooters and seemed to be getting more comfortable at finding the gaps in the lane and drifting into open spaces on the 3 point line. But then his shots weren’t falling (even though he’s a good shooter).

 

[tbonezone]

"who he sees as more ready to contribute) to get comfortable faster and relax and not have to worry about being pulled for a mistake. He wants to speed up their development..."
respectfully disagree. if you're going to pull one player for a particular mistake it best apply to everybody. otherwise you're playing favorites. and every other player on the squad sees it. secondly every player on this court should feel replaceable. if you're not being pushed to play your best then you're growing too complacent. thirdly practice ain't game time.want to develop your bench ? play them.

 

[Ghost]

Goodine looked decent earlier in the season. He seemed to be getting a little more comfortable each game. He had some good drives and kick-outs to 3-point shooters and seemed to be getting more comfortable at finding the gaps in the lane and drifting into open spaces on the 3 point line. But then his shots weren’t falling (even though he’s a good shooter).

What games did he struggle mightily? The same ones where our starters did? Seems like a correlation there. One you might...expect?

 

[Ghost]

Likewise with Buddy, who’s only a sophomore. He has a lot of improvement to make on the defensive end and in learning how to pick his spots getting into the lane, so the staff wants to get him as much game experience as possible... It sort of speaks to that Malcolm Gladwell concept that it takes a certain amount of hours of deliberate practice (10,000) to become an expert in any field.

Buddy's limitations are pretty built in....I think he knows the defense, he's just insanely slow afoot for a guard - or maybe any position. All the practice in the world won't cure that ailment. It's akin to thinking Big Country Reeves was a good trainer away from being Shaq.

Last year we needed shooting - so we had to get Buddy into the rotation. Therefore we brought him back from the dead after some abysmal shooting numbers early in the year.

Carey was our athletic guard, with him down and out, we will need someone to fill that void. Goodine! Let's give him some run...Yet, here we are....reversing course and not worrying about the glaring weakness this year. It just baffles me a bit. The logic seems to work for some people both seasons, even though in each season, the weakness is/was readily apparent. Except we tried something new last year.....because...faith????

If we had a decent backcourt this would all make more sense to me...we do not have that.

 

[FloridaFan]

How i imagine the board is whenever we only play 6-7 players

 

[cuseinseattle]

I honestly don’t see it with Goodine right now. I thought he was going to come in and contribute something right away and loved his game and thought he could help at both guard spots. He has looked lost and unsure of himself just about every game outside of Bucknell when everyone on the team played well and we almost scored 100.

 

[cuseinseattle]

For me I don’t think our rotation is the issue but the talent of the players. I do think Quincy has been playing better. I would like to see Marek and Quincy at the forward with JG3 and Eli up top for like 15 a game. Eli could also handle the ball so maybe that gets Buddy down to 30 min and JG3 down to 35.

 

[CaptainJ]

After last night’s game, I’m left wondering what the is our rotation?

I think more than one player could be graded an in that rotation.

 

[realorange]

The fact is we saw the man change JUST LAST YEAR! Buddy couldn't shoot at all the first half of the season, and we kept on going back to that well for another drink! We found a way!
He can change!
He did change!
#changeicanbelievein

Will there ever be a player who he knows better?

 

[realorange]

"who he sees as more ready to contribute) to get comfortable faster and relax and not have to worry about being pulled for a mistake. He wants to speed up their development..."
respectfully disagree. if you're going to pull one player for a particular mistake it best apply to everybody. otherwise you're playing favorites. and every other player on the squad sees it. secondly every player on this court should feel replaceable. if you're not being pushed to play your best then you're growing too complacent. thirdly practice ain't game time.want to develop your bench ? play them.

Pushed to be playing your best I agree with.

Pulling someone for a mistake that he has been repeatedly been coached up for is different than another player making the same mistake once in the last month.

 

[JoeySimz]

For me I don’t think our rotation is the issue but the talent of the players. I do think Quincy has been playing better. I would like to see Marek and Quincy at the forward with JG3 and Eli up top for like 15 a game. Eli could also handle the ball so maybe that gets Buddy down to 30 min and JG3 down to 35.

I would love to see that even for a two minutes. I think this could happen if Quincy continues to play well. He would have to rebound and be aggressive on the boards. Otherwise, as other posters have mentioned, you’re taking a shooter out of the lineup. (That’s why some are pushing for Braswell but he’s not nearly as strong as QG and gets bumped around too easily)

 

[IthacaMatt]

I want to just accept that JB knows what he is doing, but I can't help myself... I have to question how Goodine could be out of the rotation when the rotation requires us to play Buddy and Girard 40 minutes? Just a painfully stupid way to try to develop this team to be something more than it is right now...which isn't much.

Mark my words, playing guys 40 minutes a game in December means someone is going to get hurt in February. Not a good idea. We saw this movie just 2 years ago, and limped across the finish line with half the lineup injured.

 

[Red Holzman]

Regarding comments about Braswell not playing due to being too weak/beat up on rebounds etc:
Marek and Sidibe have similar bodies and often get beat up inside by stronger players.
Wouldn't allowing Braswell to absorb some minutes and punishment help his development while providing additional benefit of giving the other two Thin Men a needed break? Same for Edwards?
Watching Marek and Sidibe get knocked around often makes me wince-
Some Braswell/Edwards minutes may extend Marek/Sidibe lifespans, and be good for all.

 

[DoctorBombay]

True, but better programs have reserves better than Goodine, Braswell, Washington and Edwards. It is apples and oranges.

This would make more sense if it didn’t happen every single year.
It’s a short bench by design, not necessity.