Rotation

[Antiprodigy]

our best team is with all 3 of them in and G and Cooney up top. this is not even close to be honest...

Just because you say it, doesn't make this statement true. These are the facts.

McCullough does not play the zone well. He doesn't know when he needs to come out to protect the wing, and he doesn't know when he needs to drop down. He consistently is late closing out on 3 pt shooters who move down to the baseline. He definitely has the length and athleticism to be a solid to good zone defender, but he just isn't. He doesn't understand the defense. It takes time. (See example - Roberson, Tyler, Fr)

If you don't play defense or you don't play defense well, you are going to be sitting on the bench a lot if you are playing for JB. This has consistently been true for many years. This is the primary reason McCullough is sitting so much. Roberson is miles better on defense right now.

In addition, Gbinijie is too slow to stay with quick guards for extended periods of time. You are not the only one on the board suggesting that Gbinijie should be playing guard. He can't do it. It isn't his fault. He is 6' 7". He is very athletic, but it is too much to ask him to stay with a 6' guard and stop the dribble penetration. Playing zone requires the guard to constantly be shifting position. You have to be quick to stay in front, and length is good, but only goes so far.

It can work for a few minutes at a time, but not consistently. Don't forget that you are also asking him to be the primary ball handler for a significant part of the game, as well.

In my opinion, a line-up of Xmas, McCullough, Roberson, Cooney & G is not even close to being the best line up. But don't take my word for it, take the word of the second winingest coach in NCAA division I history. I have yet to see him play that line-up at all.

 

[NKR1978]

The problem with the board is all criticism is lumped as anti-JB and thus it gets swept away as illegitimate points.

The fact that this thread was started by a poster who constantly criticizes Trevor Cooney automatically reduces the validity of any discussion or point being raised. It's hard to take a criticism seriously when it is part of the same dead horse that continues to be endlessly beaten.

JB can do wrong. If it were up to me, I would give some of these guys more of a breather. But I think most people who endlessly criticize JB and his decisions for the last 39 years think that he is just a stubborn old man who is set in his ways. The guy thinks about basketball and there's a reason he does what he does and it this point he's earned the benefit of the doubt.

This is not a particularly good team. Our "Big 3" of Rak, TC and G are probably the "worst" top 3 guys we've had going back 2007 and probably even further. They should be complementary players to Ennis and Grant this year, but it is what it is.

 

[br801]

This post is why you can't have a discussion. Its a passive aggressive dig at a point that is fair. So basically your point is practice is where every player develops and that on the court experience can't possibly help players. Also, our players practice very little during the season. Their have been articles JB during the season doesn't practice hard to save the players legs.

Seriously the point remains playing high 30 mpg WEARS you down so that at the end you may not have the same amount of energy as a player who has played high 20 mpg or low 30 mpg. This point can't be true so I will just act smarter than the people who are making a legit point and try to make them look crazy/or they are complainers. Why can't a legitimate discussion happen? Nah making the other side look stupid is better.

The reason why these discussions often get derailed is that certain posters insist on speaking in absolutes and are incapable of making (or understanding) a nuanced argument.

 

[Alsacs]

I get the point that there are some anti-JB posters who I disagree with on an overall premise. However, their are some decisions that can atleast be debated. I understand my opinion comes off strong, but I acknowledge I am not always right and people can disagree with me all they want. Being a realist doesn't mean anything more than I say what I think.

The point remains a discussion should be possible and it should be easy to identify anti-JB posters with posters that love and respect JB but having a legit discussion about some of his perceived weaknesses.

 

[rrlbees]

unlucky? that is what we are falling back on now? Oh boy... a new low for this board. I guess u can call it unlucky if you refuse to develop depth and then a key player goes down, forcing guys who are helpless to play. You could call that unlucky, but you would be dead wrong.

So which key players didn't get developed when we lost AO and Fab Melo that would have given us a chance at a NC? Both those years we had a good chance at a NC, though not a given.

 

[CorduroyG]

Id just like to add there's absolutely no reason JB can't give a breather to cooney in the 1st half of games. A breather or 2 here and there could make a huge difference later in the game and later in the season. Fresh legs is huge for a shooter. Is the other team gonna go on a 10-0 run in the 1 or 2 minutes cooney sits? I seriously doubt it.

Listen, he doesn't think college players need it. Between the tv timeouts and regular timeouts and all the fouls and stoppages in play he thinks they get enough rest, he's said that. But that's not the same as actually taking a seat on the bench and watching the game for a minute or 2 to recharge yourself mentally and physically.

 

[rrlbees]

The problem with the board

Just stop. You are part of "the board".

 

[rrlbees]

Cue the response from one of the four posters I KNOW will respond.

I thought you wanted discussion?

 

[TBCuse11]

The fact that this thread was started by a poster who constantly criticizes Trevor Cooney automatically reduces the validity of any discussion or point being raised. It's hard to take a criticism seriously when it is part of the same dead horse that continues to be endlessly beaten.

JB can do wrong. If it were up to me, I would give some of these guys more of a breather. But I think most people who endlessly criticize JB and his decisions for the last 39 years think that he is just a stubborn old man who is set in his ways. The guy thinks about basketball and there's a reason he does what he does and it this point he's earned the benefit of the doubt.

This is not a particularly good team. Our "Big 3" of Rak, TC and G are probably the "worst" top 3 guys we've had going back 2007 and probably even further. They should be complementary players to Ennis and Grant this year, but it is what it is.

good overall post other than the fact that a thread is less valid if its of a critiquing nature vs a blind optimism nature.

 

[TBCuse11]

Just because you say it, doesn't make this statement true. These are the facts.

McCullough does not play the zone well. He doesn't know when he needs to come out to protect the wing, and he doesn't know when he needs to drop down. He consistently is late closing out on 3 pt shooters who move down to the baseline. He definitely has the length and athleticism to be a solid to good zone defender, but he just isn't. He doesn't understand the defense. It takes time. (See example - Roberson, Tyler, Fr)

If you don't play defense or you don't play defense well, you are going to be sitting on the bench a lot if you are playing for JB. This has consistently been true for many years. This is the primary reason McCullough is sitting so much. Roberson is miles better on defense right now.

In addition, Gbinijie is too slow to stay with quick guards for extended periods of time. You are not the only one on the board suggesting that Gbinijie should be playing guard. He can't do it. It isn't his fault. He is 6' 7". He is very athletic, but it is too much to ask him to stay with a 6' guard and stop the dribble penetration. Playing zone requires the guard to constantly be shifting position. You have to be quick to stay in front, and length is good, but only goes so far.

It can work for a few minutes at a time, but not consistently. Don't forget that you are also asking him to be the primary ball handler for a significant part of the game, as well.

In my opinion, a line-up of Xmas, McCullough, Roberson, Cooney & G is not even close to being the best line up. But don't take my word for it, take the word of the second winingest coach in NCAA division I history. I have yet to see him play that line-up at all.

i must have missed all the amazing defense Joseph has played stopping penetration. C'mon man. That kid cant play O or D right now.

 

[jordoo]

I agree in general that Cooney should get a blow in every game if possible. I though he could have in the first half Saturday when we had a big lead likewise had we taken care of business he could have in the second half. Other than that I completely agree with and support him playing huge minutes because he is easily our best and most productive guard at this point in time. I mean the other two guards get 8 feet to shoot 3 pointers! Ouch!

I think saying a guy like Chris (who played what 25min) needs to play more when his replacement was superior in every aspect except blocking shots doesn't show a great recognition as to whats going on. If you didn't show it in 25min when will you? That's plenty of opportunity. Also the Rak, Chris, Tyler front court really stunted the offense as neither can really play the 3 and it seemed to lead to congestion for Rakeem as well. I'd actually prefer Rak, Tyler, Mike, Ron, Kaleb when Cooney sits. Mike is a better ball handler playing against a forward as opposed to a guard.

 

[AZOrange]

i must have missed all the amazing defense Joseph has played stopping penetration. C'mon man. That kid cant play O or D right now.

I do agree that we are noticeably worse off when Joseph is out there. When Mike runs the o out top much more active. When kaleb runs it, it's disarray

 

[Alsacs]

Just stop. You are part of "the board".

I thought you wanted discussion?

Thank you for proving my point. Their isn't room for discussion because discourse doesn't happen. If anything critical is said it is all lumped together. Posters who give praise and question are lumped in with posters who only give criticism. That isn't right. Then you get posts like the one I called out because it was passive aggressive because the people who circle wagons would defend so its safe to make that type of post.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Thank you for proving my point. Their isn't room for discussion because discourse doesn't happen. If anything critical is said it is all lumped together. Posters who give praise and question are lumped in with posters who only give criticism. That isn't right. Then you get posts like the one I called out because it was passive aggressive because the people who circle wagons would defend so its safe to make that type of post.

personally, i dont like to discuss unicorns and mermaids...i find it useless and a waste of time.

im not going to find one, nor do i expect to.

and to that end, again...i see no reason to discuss them.

if we had worthy players, and they werent getting in...thats 1 thing, but A) we dont and B) its time to get the Magnificent 7 serious run time.

how do you feel about Syracuse changing to man to man?? same thing.



you know what, screw it...youre right.

discuss away, discuss away!!

tell your friends!! tell your friends!!!

2014-15 Syracuse Hoop: The Year of the Unicorn

 

[Antiprodigy]

i must have missed all the amazing defense Joseph has played stopping penetration. C'mon man. That kid cant play O or D right now.

And that is one of the reasons why Buss played so much. Add in the fact that Joseph had foul trouble, and what I said about McCullough, and it ties JB's hands. Gbinijie is not available as he needs to play the 3 on defense. So, JB alternates KJ & Buss.

The thing is, since Gbinijie is handling the ball so much, on offense, he is effectively a third guard. So, you are getting half of what you are asking for anyway.

As I stated in my previous post, JB places a high value on defense. The best defensive line-up (at the moment) is Cooney, Buss, Roberson, Xmas & Gbinijie. That is the line-up he went with down the stretch where he felt defense was more important than offense.

Other situations may dictate a need to place an emphasis on offense down the stretch. He may well use a different line-up in that circumstance.

 

[KaiserUEO]

And that is one of the reasons why Buss played so much. Add in the fact that Joseph had foul trouble, and what I said about McCullough, and it ties JB's hands. Gbinijie is not available as he needs to play the 3 on defense. So, JB alternates KJ & Buss.

The thing is, since Gbinijie is handling the ball so much, on offense, he is effectively a third guard. So, you are getting half of what you are asking for anyway.

As I stated in my previous post, JB places a high value on defense. The best defensive line-up (at the moment) is Cooney, Buss, Roberson, Xmas & Gbinijie. That is the line-up he went with down the stretch where he felt defense was more important than offense.

Other situations may dictate a need to place an emphasis on offense down the stretch. He may well use a different line-up in that circumstance.

they can win doing this too.

and JB knows its likely the only ticket to march.

 

[NKR1978]

I do agree that we are noticeably worse off when Joseph is out there. When Mike runs the o out top much more active. When kaleb runs it, it's disarray

The best part about Joseph is that he'll eventually be a great 4 year point guard. Not saying he'll be Napier, but Napier looked pretty awful for long stretches of his freshman, sophomore and junior years. Of course there was a lot of brilliance thrown in too, but in this era of college basketball, a four year point guard is a luxury.

 

[Alsacs]

personally, i dont like to discuss unicorns and mermaids...i find it useless and a waste of time.

im not going to find one, nor do i expect to.

and to that end, again...i see no reason to discuss them.

if we had worthy players, and they werent getting in...thats 1 thing, but A) we dont and B) its time to get the Magnificent 7 serious run time.

how do you feel about Syracuse changing to man to man?? same thing.



you know what, screw it...youre right.

discuss away, discuss away!!

tell your friends!! tell your friends!!!

2014-15 Syracuse Hoop: The Year of the Unicorn

How does this have to do with point that our players wear down because they are playing 30 MPG? My god I feel like this reading your post

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't really have issues with JB's use of the bench, but last year CJ lead the team in minutes and his shooting at the end of the year wasn't great. Is it was because he was tired? I don't know, but JB did not want to play Roberson 2-4 minutes last year in place of him.

This year Trevor is on pace for the same minutes distribution as CJ was last year. Was he tired in the second half the other day? Maybe. I think we can afford a 1-3 minute rest each half for Cooney. It's going to come from one of the current 7 though. Nobody is going to be added to the rotation.

JB could call more timeouts to give his players rests, but then we might not have them at the end of a close game, like we didn't at Nova.

 

[Alsacs]

Discussing the fact that JB should try to give the kids a couple of minutes rest in the first half has now turned into discussion of rainbows, unicorns, and mermaids. Congrats Kaiser the same circle the wagons people will back your point which is the problem. Where has M2M been brought up? Your point is basically EDIT I don't want to go there as that subject is personal. Discussions on a messageboard which are fair shouldn't be called mermaids/unicorns. Okay everybody we can only discuss what Kaiser finds to be fair.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Discussing the fact that JB should try to give the kids a couple of minutes rest in the first half has now turned into discussion of rainbows, unicorns, and mermaids. Congrats Kaiser the same circle the wagons people will back your point which is the problem. Where has M2M been brought up? Your point is basically EDIT I don't want to go there as that subject is personal. Discussions on a messageboard which are fair shouldn't be called mermaids/unicorns. Okay everybody we can only discuss what Kaiser finds to be fair.

a deeper rotation is worthy you say? well no kidding, but it aint happenin...

You'll see green alligators and long-necked geese,
Some humpy-backed camels and some chimpanzees.
Some cats and rats and elephant, but sure as you're born,
You're never gonna see no unicorn.

man-to-man=deeper bench/rotation

 

[Alsacs]

a deeper rotation is worthy you say? well no kidding, but it aint happenin...

You'll see green alligators and long-necked geese,
Some humpy-backed camels and some chimpanzees.
Some cats and rats and elephant, but sure as you're born,
You're never gonna see no unicorn.

man-to-man=deeper bench/rotation

JB doesn't have to play a deeper rotation to give any player a 1-3 minute break in the first half to keep them fresh.
Joseph/Cooney/Patterson/Gbinije can play guards
Gbinije/McCollough/Roberson/Christmas can play forwards.

JB could easily give Cooney/Rak a 1-3 minute break in the first half and not go any deeper than his current 7. My goodness, c'mon man. I am not saying stop playing 2-3 for m2m or go 9 deep. Just give the kids a couple of minutes each game so that at the end they have more energy.

 

[KaiserUEO]

JB doesn't have to play a deeper rotation to give any player a 1-3 minute break in the first half to keep them fresh.
Joseph/Cooney/Patterson/Gbinije can play guards
Gbinije/McCollough/Roberson/Christmas can play forwards.

JB could easily give Cooney/Rak a 1-3 minute break in the first half and not go any deeper than his current 7. My goodness, c'mon man. I am not saying stop playing 2-3 for m2m or go 9 deep. Just give the kids a couple of minutes each game so that at the end they have more energy.

no worries, consider this thread a WIN.

i had never looked up the full lyrics for the Unicorn song before...it actually tells a pretty cool story, sad too.

gives me a whole new appreciation of it just 75 days or so before St Patricks Day.

thanks everybody!!

 

[Alsacs]

no worries, consider this thread a WIN.

i had never looked up the full lyrics for the Unicorn song before...it actually tells a pretty cool story, sad too.

gives me a whole new appreciation of it just 75 days or so before St Patricks Day.

thanks everybody!!

You are one of the few who spar in a fair manner and I can go back and forth with because you can admit another point is fair.

 

[Macky44]

Thank you for proving my point. Their isn't room for discussion because discourse doesn't happen. If anything critical is said it is all lumped together. Posters who give praise and question are lumped in with posters who only give criticism. That isn't right. Then you get posts like the one I called out because it was passive aggressive because the people who circle wagons would defend so its safe to make that type of post.

sage