Rothstein ranks us 17 for Next Year

[721Comstock]

I hear ya' Comstock, but as you very well know, Kadary should have been STARTING. So, I guess 20 minutes is great and all, but he was often the best player on the court. Joe was sometimes a liability (between his chucking and defense), let's not even talk about the West Virginia closing.

Nods head in agreement.

 

[oTTo113445]

imo, Kadary isn't as important as people think. We ran Dolezaj as a point a lot late in the season, because he gave us an extra scorer with Joe. And next years team is more built for a entry pass/kickout offense. I actually would of preferred Kadary playing more of a Scoring point off the bounce blow by roll to open things up had he came back.While he would of kept the ball in the lane for a extra dribble, and had a nice midrange touch, I am not sure that he would have made that leap. Maybe with time, Symir's speed is more worthy of doubles in the lane.

 

[djcon57]

imo, Kadary isn't as important as people think.

*insert net posessions stat*

*sigh*

 

[Orangezoo]

*insert net posessions stat*

*sigh*

So while net possession is interesting- I would be curious who else was on the court as I have said before. With that said here are some interesting numbers.

Kadary in Wins 19.7 M, 7.0 P, 3.1 A, 1.7 S, 1.6 T
Kadary in Loss 23.3 M, 4.4 P, 3.0 A, 1.5 S, 1.5 T

Joe in Wins 28.8 M, 11.2 P, 3.9 A, 1.5 S, 2.3 T
Joe in Loss 25.7 M, 7.1 P, 2.1 A, 1.2 S, 1.9 T

I am sure there are a ton of comments ready to attack this and over explain. That said look at the combination and as a PG tandem it's a sizable combined difference in wins. The numbers show that in Wins both players produced better and in losses not so much which points to some of the other problems like awful shooting in losses that really hurt us.

 

[djcon57]

So while net possession is interesting- I would be curious who else was on the court as I have said before. With that said here are some interesting numbers.

Kadary in Wins 19.7 M, 7.0 P, 3.1 A, 1.7 S, 1.6 T
Kadary in Loss 23.3 M, 4.4 P, 3.0 A, 1.5 S, 1.5 T

Joe in Wins 28.8 M, 11.2 P, 3.9 A, 1.5 S, 2.3 T
Joe in Loss 25.7 M, 7.1 P, 2.1 A, 1.2 S, 1.9 T

I am sure there are a ton of comments ready to attack this and over explain. That said look at the combination and as a PG tandem it's a sizable combined difference in wins. The numbers show that in Wins both players produced better and in losses not so much which points to some of the other problems like awful shooting in losses that really hurt us.

Joe started. If Joe wasn’t playing well and we fell behind, Kadary had to play with that game situation. If Joe played well, he stayed in the game. It’s not apples to apples. In order for those numbers to mean anything, you have to assume Kadary would have ate it vs the likes of BC with the same amount of mins Joe played.

I understand the reluctance of not wanting to accept the net different stat but it’s pretty straight forward

If he wasn’t on the court, we were barely beating our opponents. For a season, counting every game.

Next year is a different team though.

 

[Orangezoo]

Joe started. If Joe wasn’t playing well and we fell behind, Kadary had to play with that game situation. If Joe played well, he stayed in the game. It’s not apples to apples. In order for those numbers to mean anything, you have to assume Kadary would have ate it vs the likes of BC with the same amount of mins Joe played.

I understand the reluctance of not wanting to accept the net different stat but it’s pretty straight forward

If he wasn’t on the court, we were barely beating our opponents. For a season, counting every game.

Next year is a different team though.

I do understand the net stat- and as a data guy for many years would look at the other players on the floor much like analyzing other variables in a study.

That said you missed my point I was making or I was poor in my delivery. I actually was not comparing them at all I was pointing out that the combination was better in wins. The bad starts were not all Joe and when Richmond came in he didn't always play well. You don't put the struggles on one guy nor does the game situation necessarily make it more difficult on another.

Two things I think will ring true next year-

1- We are better with a 2 PG system with Joe on the roster. Symir is a completely different player with different strengths.

2- Kadary is going to be good but he will be up and down in minutes at the Hall and also is better suited where he doesn't have to run the show for 30 plus minutes.

 

[djcon57]

bad starts were not all Joe and when Richmond came in he didn't always play well. You don't put the struggles on one guy nor does the game situation necessarily make it more difficult on another.

I agree with your general thoughts at the end assuming a) Symir gets the 15-20 mins and B) Kadary doesn’t improve his J.

I’ll agree to disagree on this. I’m not saying Richmond played well every game he came in. I’m saying over the course of a season the team was better when he was on the floor vs when he wasn’t. Using the whole season removes these variables you are referring of

I’ll leave it at that. I know everyone is sick of the debate

 

[Orangezoo]

I agree with your general thoughts at the end assuming a) Symir gets the 15-20 mins and B) Kadary doesn’t improve his J.

I’ll agree to disagree on this. I’m not saying Richmond played well every game he came in. I’m saying over the course of a season the team was better when he was on the floor vs when he wasn’t. Using the whole season removes these variables you are referring of

I’ll leave it at that. I know everyone is sick of the debate

Yeah I wish we could have seen what it looked like and what it could still look like. Yes it's dead and I look forward to the first 5 star in a while and especially that he is the prototypical size playing style.

 

[two3zone]

I do understand the net stat- and as a data guy for many years would look at the other players on the floor much like analyzing other variables in a study.

That said you missed my point I was making or I was poor in my delivery. I actually was not comparing them at all I was pointing out that the combination was better in wins. The bad starts were not all Joe and when Richmond came in he didn't always play well. You don't put the struggles on one guy nor does the game situation necessarily make it more difficult on another.

Two things I think will ring true next year-

1- We are better with a 2 PG system with Joe on the roster. Symir is a completely different player with different strengths.

2- Kadary is going to be good but he will be up and down in minutes at the Hall and also is better suited where he doesn't have to run the show for 30 plus minutes.

As a data guy you don’t want to look at a NET stat but you cite running stats in your previous post?

 

[Orangezoo]

As a data guy you don’t want to look at a NET stat but you cite running stats in your previous post?

Huh? If that is your take you don't get the point. I have no issue with Net stats or that they aren't valuable. That said, the Net stat on Kadary is just about Kadary which my post was not. I knew someone would come in and try to attack it.

If I am going to evaluate just how much better the team is with Kadary I need to see what combination is on the floor. You don't review one variable when there are numerous when looking at the correlation with success.

That is beside the point though- as a whole it was games when both Kadary and Joe played well not just one player. That is the entire point because we live in this dumb world where everyone makes it about one or the other. It's not and never was. It won't be for Kadary at his next stop either and that doesn't make him any less of a good player.

 

[Orangezoo]

Who would have thought the hoops season would be head and shoulders above Lax?

 

[Tony DeFranco]

We will be ok with the deep ball but we wont be a top 20 team all year with no guards be able to penetrate - we will also be average at best defensively

 

[dollarbill44]

Alan gave up a lot of offensive rebounds being undersized. Not his fault just that only so much you can do giving up all that size. He was also a hero defender more than a consistent defender. He no doubt was huge in a few games with some big-time blocks but overall his lack of size was a major weakness.

His size was less of a problem than being out of position on so many possessions. That's really what caused his diminished playing time down the stretch.
I've never seen an SU defender go rogue the way AG did at the beginning of the Houston game. He was almost out to half court!

 

[dollarbill44]

I hear ya' Comstock, but as you very well know, Kadary should have been STARTING. So, I guess 20 minutes is great and all, but he was often the best player on the court. Joe was sometimes a liability (between his chucking and defense), let's not even talk about the West Virginia closing.

I liked Kadary and thought he should have been starting the second half of the season, but let's pump the brakes a bit here. Kadary made his share of bonehead plays, even late in the season (there were some glaring ones against Houston). I think we've been so starved for good PG play that we've lost some perspective.
It sucks to lose him, but he is getting treated like he was an All-American.

 

[Newhouser]

i think were higher because where we finished. That always impacts the next years rankings.

Agree and that is proven in my opinion with UCLA being listed as #1.

 

[OrangeDW]

imo, Kadary isn't as important as people think. We ran Dolezaj as a point a lot late in the season, because he gave us an extra scorer with Joe. And next years team is more built for a entry pass/kickout offense. I actually would of preferred Kadary playing more of a Scoring point off the bounce blow by roll to open things up had he came back.While he would of kept the ball in the lane for a extra dribble, and had a nice midrange touch, I am not sure that he would have made that leap. Maybe with time, Symir's speed is more worthy of doubles in the lane.

I think I disagree with everything there. Marek as a point late in the season? He played the same role he always played. We’ll miss both his and Kadary’s passing though. They were our two best passers.

I would agree about an entry pass/kickout offense...if we had a low post scorer who draws doubles - which hasn’t happened here since like 2005.

 

[Nicknack]

I liked Kadary and thought he should have been starting the second half of the season, but let's pump the brakes a bit here. Kadary made his share of bonehead plays, even late in the season (there were some glaring ones against Houston). I think we've been so starved for good PG play that we've lost some perspective.
It sucks to lose him, but he is getting treated like he was an All-American.

Not sure what to pump. All I said was that he should have been starting. Any player is going to make mistakes, particularly a freshman. That said, the good one's tend to make less the more they get on the court. I also think Kadary regressed a bit late in the season. He didn't show the same driving ability like he did earlier on and I would think that was likely due to his injury - although I don't know.