Knicks411
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Man, I dunno about this one.
"Saint Weirdo" -Dion Waiters
- Thread starter Trueblue25
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Man, I dunno about this one.
orange2win
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You are right - nice article. Although the anagram of Dion's name to Saint Weirdo was a stretch. An anagram on Cory Hughey's name is HEY GROUCHY!
reedny
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Westbrook probably takes more shots than Kyrie, but I'm betting that he can adjust to Dion's game better than Kyrie did. That remains to be seen. In cleveland, this didn't work and Dion wound up coming off the bench (and playing very well IMO).
Knicks411
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Well, I don't think Russ is gonna be adjusting to Dion's game, it'll be the other way around. I think I read Dion may be coming off the bench in OKC as they see him reprising the Harden role.
Maybe I'm coming off as super negative to Dion, but the guy is shooting 40% this year. That's playing very well?
orange2win
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David Griffin Cavs Gen Man. "Dion is a talented player with potential ahead of him. Trades like this are always difficult because there are relationships and bonds built, and that was the case with Dion."
Kevin Durant "Being from the East Coast, I know a lot about Philadelphia, South Philly, where he comes from. Those guys are tough, and they play with an edge. And that's what we need here. Just knowing him from playing against him. We're gonna make him feel wanted. I don't think he felt that the last couple of years. He's gonna fit in well. He's gonna get comfortable real quick."
Kevin Durant "Being from the East Coast, I know a lot about Philadelphia, South Philly, where he comes from. Those guys are tough, and they play with an edge. And that's what we need here. Just knowing him from playing against him. We're gonna make him feel wanted. I don't think he felt that the last couple of years. He's gonna fit in well. He's gonna get comfortable real quick."
Fireball Jr.
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You're joking, right, when you say Westbrook is not as ball-hungry as Kyrie? Westbrook averages 20.9 shots a game, second in the league to Kobe (21.1). Durant has to beg for the ball at times. And as good a ball handler as Dion can be, Kyrie's in another league as a ball handler.
Dion can be a stud, but while his bravado and attitude are great, I think they also can be detriments in that they may be getting in the way of his ability to see reality. He was in a good, potentially great, situation in Cleveland, but he couldn't accept being a stud, he felt he should be the stud, and he's trippin' if he thinks he's better than Kyrie. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...edly-thought-he-was-better-than-kyrie-irving/
reedny
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In the games I saw him play he was insane. His shooting is down, well below his career average for 3 especially. And I attribute this to the adjustments of coming of the bench, sharing the offense with a new player... and a second superstar. At any rate, you may not like Dion's game. But i do, and I'm hoping he'll flourish at OKC whether it's off the bench or however they need him.
reedny
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I agree with most of this. No one's saying Dion's better than Kyrie... although he was in the few games I saw him play this year. Kyrie's insane off the dribble... not sure anyone outside of Wall and the old D. Rose are in the same league. So no, this isn't about comparing Dion to Kyrie. I just think there was bad blood between them and their games were incompatible. Obviously Kyrie said something to Dion and was wearing a nose protector as a consequence. But ultimately, Dion accepted his 6th man role and was contributing.
As far as Russ, as my other post stated, I know he takes more shots than Kyrie but I'm anticipating that Westbrook won't have as much of a problem setting up Dion as Kyrie did (this won't be an issue if, as Knicks thinks, Dion comes off the bench) and overall Dion will be a better fit for the organization.
DoctorBombay
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That quote about Dion "reportedly" thinking he's better than Kyrie Irving comes from a, wait for it...Bleacher Report article.
Gotta love the media when they hit on a narrative. Despite numerous denials to the contrary, the "Dion as delusional, conceited, ego-inflated malcontent" who couldn't get along w/ the Cavs star PG, seems to be the go-to version of this story.
It'll be interesting to see what the Cavs fans have to say if the team keeps struggling since, "They won't have Dion Waiters to kick around anymore", a la Richard Nixon. We shall see.
H
HOFCeluck
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Superstar ego, second string talent.
Fireball Jr.
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Love Dion's game, don't like his inflated sense of worth, delusion and sulking. Love Dion, loved him in college, was thrilled when he suddenly found himself on a competitive team when LeBron went home and Love followed. Many threads full of my Dion-love on here going back to start of season.
I had high hopes for Dion with this new cast, which has only been together 35 games, but he clearly was never gonna feel loved in Cleveland because, in his mind, he should be The Man, not Kyrie. Too bad, because there's plenty of love to go around, particularly if you're winning.
I've watched all 35 of Cleveland's games, and he's been inconsistent, firing airballs the other night. You apparently only caught him in his "insane" moments.
And if he had trouble adjusting to coming off the bench in Cleveland, what's gonna happen in OKC? He's not gonna be starting, and he'll be playing with a the ball-hungriest point guard in the game.
H
HOFCeluck
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I think Dion's destined to be a volume scorer for an irrelevant franchise. His need to be "the man" trumps his desire to win. I hope I'm wrong.
triplethrea
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This is true. Dion wants to be a superstar more than he wants to be the 4th best guy on a championship team. I think Dion wants to win, just not as an anonymous guy on the "Lebron James, Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving" Cavs.
Dion has never gotten a fair shake for his talent level going back to Cuse. This guy deserves to start and be the main guy for at least 1 year and he is always told to shut up and "act your talent level". Meanwhile Kyrie Irving is better looking, more marketable, and has a sweet looking handle so he is treated like a prince while Dion is yelled out for not trying hard enough on defense.
I don't know if you believe in the law of attraction, but Dion seems to attract disrespect and adversity. Dion wants a chance to be great and all I saw is a bunch of smug internet people and journalists (who have minimal success in their own lives) telling him he is delusional. I truly hope he gets the last laugh.
jncuse
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A desire to win often results in chucker mode which is a terrible trait for an NBA player. This isn't the NCAA --good teams have multiple options to score and taking inefficient shots is not good. Taking a bail out long 2 because you are a chucker is losing basketball.
jncuse
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1. "Act your Talent Level". Why do you think this guy is not getting shot opportunities? He has a career USAGE % of 26%. He has a usage% of 24% this year!
Do you not realize how high that is, and how much liberty he has had to shoot? Here are NBA players with a lower overall usage% the last 3 years.
Damien Lillard
Paul George
Dirk Nowitzki
Paul Milsap
Zach Randolph
Jeff Teague
Isiah Thomas
He doesn't look to run plays so its not because its a poor offence for him. He likes to get the ball at the top of the key and try to create. That is more on him, than the team,
2. And it's not like he has been any good with his chances, He has a TS% of 49%. Do you not realize how terrible that is?
119 players in the NBA have played over 4500 minutes in the past 3 seasons. Dion is 115th out of 119.
2 of those players below him have been run out by multiple teams -- Josh Smith (Atlanta, Detroit), Evan Turner (Philly, Indiana). The other 2 are savvy defensive veterans (Hinrich, Prince). Where does Dion fit in there?
3. Other than being a Syracuse fan, I am clueless as to why one would think this guy deserves to start be the main guy on any team.
Dion is a high volume shooter, who can create inefficient shots for himself. He can be a high volume, inefficient 20 ppg one day for a top 5 lotto team. I appreciated Dion at the NCAA level. But this is the NBA and let's be real about what this guy has done and WHAT HE HAS EARNED OR DESERVES.
triplethrea
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Take a look at his stats the last 20 games of last year with Kyrie out. His FG% went up.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waitedi01/gamelog/2014/
He's a 20 PPG player in a league where there are only 20 or so players averaging that. There are far worse players starting around the league. Compare his usage % and TS% this year with the numbers at the end of last year. You should also note that if you are using numbers across his career, that it is only his 3rd year. Most rookies are not efficient. Looking at his stats at the end of the year, I assumed he would be given more playing time and he would blow up his 3rd year. Instead, he has been neutered even more and told to limit his full potential.
23-37 with Dion on the bench last year, 10-12 with him starting. Little drop-off. Yet he is treated like the problem.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/waitedi01/gamelog/2014/
He's a 20 PPG player in a league where there are only 20 or so players averaging that. There are far worse players starting around the league. Compare his usage % and TS% this year with the numbers at the end of last year. You should also note that if you are using numbers across his career, that it is only his 3rd year. Most rookies are not efficient. Looking at his stats at the end of the year, I assumed he would be given more playing time and he would blow up his 3rd year. Instead, he has been neutered even more and told to limit his full potential.
23-37 with Dion on the bench last year, 10-12 with him starting. Little drop-off. Yet he is treated like the problem.
Cheriehoop
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Appears that for a 1st round lottery pick they have also decided he isn't the answer either.
Conrad13
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I loved this Durant quote. For the record, I really didn't want to like Kevin Durant when he was billed as the next Carmelo in college, but he has to be one of the most likable guys in sports.
"We’re gonna make him feel wanted," Kevin Durant said via The Oklahoman. "I don’t think he felt that the last couple years. He’s gonna fit in well. He’s gonna get comfortable real quick. It’s on the leaders -- Russell, myself, Nick [Collison] -- to make him feel at home and feel special and let him play his game.”
longislandcuse
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Waiters looks, based on last night, like he's going to get a decent amount of minutes in OKC. All they have is Westbrook/KD, Reggie Jackson and some 3 point shooters. Their bigs are horrendous on the offensive end and the starting 2g Roberson has no business playing. If you can contain Westbrook or KD, or one of them has an off night, they are seriously challenged. Waiters and Jackson are the only 2 other guys on that roster who can be considered "playmakers".
osullfam
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Orange and Cav's fan here. Some comments from watching him closely:
1) Dion's ability to split defenders and take it strong to the rim is elite in the NBA. His J is still unorthodox and he's a streaky shooter.
2) He and Kyrie had a dustup last year. Dion thought he was his equal. Kyrie has taken it to a whole new level this year, so comparisons are now silly.
3) Dion has the talent to be the "Man" and wants to be the "Man". With Kyrie, KLove and LBJ that's the last thing the starting unit needs. He filled a great role as the "Man" on their second unit.
4) When the dust settled the Cav's got Shumpert (a very solid wing defender), JR Smith (a very talented 6th man, who makes Dion look like Andrew Luck), and Mozgov (the 7'1" rim defender they really needed, and someone who played for Blatt on the Russian team) for Dion, some deep bench players and a # 1 pick. Good trades for the Cav's. They need to win now or bye-bye KLove and maybe LBJ.
5) Dion is insurance for Reggie Jackson who is in the final year of his contract with OKC.
6) I feel really, really bad for Carmello.
1) Dion's ability to split defenders and take it strong to the rim is elite in the NBA. His J is still unorthodox and he's a streaky shooter.
2) He and Kyrie had a dustup last year. Dion thought he was his equal. Kyrie has taken it to a whole new level this year, so comparisons are now silly.
3) Dion has the talent to be the "Man" and wants to be the "Man". With Kyrie, KLove and LBJ that's the last thing the starting unit needs. He filled a great role as the "Man" on their second unit.
4) When the dust settled the Cav's got Shumpert (a very solid wing defender), JR Smith (a very talented 6th man, who makes Dion look like Andrew Luck), and Mozgov (the 7'1" rim defender they really needed, and someone who played for Blatt on the Russian team) for Dion, some deep bench players and a # 1 pick. Good trades for the Cav's. They need to win now or bye-bye KLove and maybe LBJ.
5) Dion is insurance for Reggie Jackson who is in the final year of his contract with OKC.
6) I feel really, really bad for Carmello.
Knicks411
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Kyrie missed just 11 game last year, 8 of them in March, so the end of the year. In those 8 games Dion had a true shooting of 50.5%. For the season. he was at 50.8%.
There are worse players than him starting, and that's just the knicks! He had a few nice games after Kyrie came back, playing out the string against teams that had gfiven up on the season. Not exactly lighting my world on fire.
triplethrea
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He was a 2nd year guy. I'm not sure what stats you're looking for.
Full_Rebar
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There are a lot more than 20 guys in the NBA who are capable of being a 20 ppg scorer with a high usage % like he had when Kyrie was out and Cleveland was playing out the string.
As Bees said, at some point Dion needs to stop blaming others. This isn't like HS where when he didn't like things, he just went to another school. He is being given his 2nd opportunity with a winning team, which a lot of NBA guys would love to have and it's on him to adjust his game to those around him.
triplethrea
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Here's monthly stats:
G GS MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% True Shooting Percentage
October 1 1 29 5 12 1 3 0 0 1 1 2 3 0 2 2 11 .417 .333 .458 20.8 92 99 -2.1 29.4 11.0 1.0 2.0
November 14 8 397 75 179 20 48 40 59 5 47 34 17 5 38 33 210 .419 .417 .678 .512 27.5 93 109 -6.6 28.4 15.0 3.4 2.4
December 11 0 348 65 150 8 25 25 36 8 39 29 4 1 28 19 163 .433 .320 .694 .491 24.9 93 112 +0.3 31.6 14.8 3.5 2.6
January 15 0 410 78 196 20 53 32 46 7 31 42 13 3 26 37 208 .398 .377 .696 .481 26.6 98 111 -2.5 27.3 13.9 2.1 2.8
February 8 0 195 45 100 8 28 11 19 3 24 24 4 0 16 14 109 .450 .286 .579 .503 28.2 98 110 +6.7 24.3 13.6 3.0 3.0
March 14 8 473 109 246 21 63 31 44 5 39 56 14 4 32 32 270 .443 .333 .705 .509 29.1 100 112 -5.8 33.8 19.3 2.8 4.0
April 7 7 220 53 110 14 30 22 31 3 14 22 8 4 12 16 142 .482 .467 .710 .574 27.4 112 110 +4.8 31.5 20.3 2.0 3.1
The last two months he jumped from 13-14 PPG to 19-20 PPG. TS% went from 50.9% to 57.4%, FG% from 44% to 48%. The point is most things improved to fairly impressive levels, especially for a 2nd year player. Is he super-efficient? No way. Can he be? Why not?
People seem to be projecting his future with the assumption that he will never grow and never become more efficient.
G GS MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% True Shooting Percentage
October 1 1 29 5 12 1 3 0 0 1 1 2 3 0 2 2 11 .417 .333 .458 20.8 92 99 -2.1 29.4 11.0 1.0 2.0
November 14 8 397 75 179 20 48 40 59 5 47 34 17 5 38 33 210 .419 .417 .678 .512 27.5 93 109 -6.6 28.4 15.0 3.4 2.4
December 11 0 348 65 150 8 25 25 36 8 39 29 4 1 28 19 163 .433 .320 .694 .491 24.9 93 112 +0.3 31.6 14.8 3.5 2.6
January 15 0 410 78 196 20 53 32 46 7 31 42 13 3 26 37 208 .398 .377 .696 .481 26.6 98 111 -2.5 27.3 13.9 2.1 2.8
February 8 0 195 45 100 8 28 11 19 3 24 24 4 0 16 14 109 .450 .286 .579 .503 28.2 98 110 +6.7 24.3 13.6 3.0 3.0
March 14 8 473 109 246 21 63 31 44 5 39 56 14 4 32 32 270 .443 .333 .705 .509 29.1 100 112 -5.8 33.8 19.3 2.8 4.0
April 7 7 220 53 110 14 30 22 31 3 14 22 8 4 12 16 142 .482 .467 .710 .574 27.4 112 110 +4.8 31.5 20.3 2.0 3.1
The last two months he jumped from 13-14 PPG to 19-20 PPG. TS% went from 50.9% to 57.4%, FG% from 44% to 48%. The point is most things improved to fairly impressive levels, especially for a 2nd year player. Is he super-efficient? No way. Can he be? Why not?
People seem to be projecting his future with the assumption that he will never grow and never become more efficient.
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