Saw a tweet that summed up the local fan base | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

Saw a tweet that summed up the local fan base

I do not blame most fans for not going to games. The product has sucked. That explains why we cannot get 40k. However how do we not get 30k? Is our hardcore fanbase really that small? If it is then when we renovate the Dome or get a new stadium, it should be 40k tops. There is no need for more than 40k. Sure winning will bring back fans but the reality is that most seasons we will be looking at being a 6 to 8 win team. Seasons with 9+ wins will be few and far between. What is the point in having 44k if you only need it once every 10 years?
 
I agree with most of that. But on the other hand, there are several out of town posters here who used to go to almost every game. Now they are absent for almost every game. I know life such as kids gets in the way. But where are those that came after them?

There is already the issue of overall attendance decline across college football, the obvious explosion of media and access to other things to do/watch, economic changes...

But for me, I think it's a lack of commitment to the program across the board. I'm not pegging this on one person. We had such a unique opportunity to be the attractive team to root for. The Dome, having it on campus (which would be appealing to a graduate), exciting offense and dynamic players. You knew that we could beat anyone that was coming to the Dome.

I think McNabb, and P for a while, covered up the degradation of the program. Freeney took us for a ride in 2001. But the writing was on the wall.

I think I have a unique perspective in that I've been a fan since I was very young and lived in upstate. Then I went to Cuse for undergrad/grad and then moved to NYC. I've been basically the embodiment of all three types of fans we want in the dome.

The time during P's final years into GRob's years (and I mean this in timeframe, not blaming these guys) in hindsight, was a tremendously pivotal time for this program, and college football as a whole. The arms race blew up, conferences were changing and media was (and still is) flipping on its head.

And we severely missed out. Our lack of investment not only led to our bottoming out, but it came at a time when it was more important than ever to be top of mind for those that would have the SU fanaticism instilled in them.

I think that lost generation is killing us that would be the folks from out of town still making the trek, passing along stories, being the propaganda machines our parents were for us.

And the worst part is the school crapped on the locals and the upstaters while trying to appeal to the NYC market.

Now, if that's what got us into the ACC, I guess it's a necessary evil. Can't argue with the new revenue stream. But it sure seems like those two things should not have been mutually exclusive.

But from my vantage point, now, the school has to start with the Syracuse people, then the upstaters along the major interstate corridors and then, when we are winning, pull in the folks that are 4 or 8 or 12 hours away. I'm telling you right now a losing or average product will not get them back.

Can you complain about lack of support from out of town folks? I think it's fair to an extent. It's a heavy burden to bear for locals that have been treated like crap. I just don't think expecting them to show up as a group to do their part, so to speak, will bear any fruit. They will always be the last to come aboard.

It's a tough spot and we need a lot of work to get folks back, from every pool of potential ticket buyers.

[Edit 1: punctuation and spelling]
 
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You pretty much nailed it. Most non locals don't realize that due to the end of the P Era and Grob there's pretty much a lost generation of fans. I can't tell you how many people I know that don't go to games because it's literally not something they think about regardless of the opponent or buzz.

Blasting those who don't attend on this board is pointless. There never gonna see it and it's not going to change anything because again most don't even know what we're talking about. If someone from SU went to Destiny during the game 50-75% of the people there wouldn't even know SU was playing.
RMH will kill me for this, but that's why I think our fanbase would be energized by some excitement. If we were losing shootouts I think we'd get more people than if we were loosing close games.
 
Issue was all over not just between the 20's. Bottom line is Syracuse is a fair weather town. We win and win consistently fans will come back.

That's how it is in most towns though, the die hards will always be there, but to get the rest you need to give them a product worth seeing. Last year we were 3-9, hopefully people jump on board with this team.
 
The casual fan who goes once every two or three years has most likely not seem a good game at home for ten to fifteen years. I haven't done the math yet but it takes a long time to establish that bad a pattern and a long time to reverse it
 
You have to take in the account of what the advertisers pay to the Dome. One less home game and the biggest draw maybe in the country I would not be paying them a good buck to ignore a great advertising opportunity.

The price point just went down instead of up and that is money lost for the year and might possibly have a longer effect on the rates when their negotiators know we will be skipping town on the marquee games of the year
 
I do not blame most fans for not going to games. The product has sucked. That explains why we cannot get 40k. However how do we not get 30k? Is our hardcore fanbase really that small? If it is then when we renovate the Dome or get a new stadium, it should be 40k tops. There is no need for more than 40k. Sure winning will bring back fans but the reality is that most seasons we will be looking at being a 6 to 8 win team. Seasons with 9+ wins will be few and far between. What is the point in having 44k if you only need it once every 10 years?
You mentioned that because we suck is why we don't get 40k and how do we get 30k? Our fan base is between 17 and 20,000 people it always has been. They show up every game. Even in Archbold. Crowds of 19,000 happened often. When we hit 40,000 in the dome, that's lots of fare weather fans thrown in the mix. You have to understand that in 1959, the week of the Colgate game, Syracuse was voted the #1 team in the country for the first time in history. At that time, Colgate was a huge rival. We drew 30,000 for that game and Archbold held 41,000 at that time. I honestly think that 100 years from now, we will have the same problem.
 
I never thought I'd see the day that we'd get less than 30K paid attendance for a football game. Yikes.

Not sure what the solution is. The die-hards who reside in Syracuse are slowly dying off. The die-hards who reside in Albany/Rochester/Binghamton are watching all the games on TV or their iphone. And the casuals are simply not interested in going to watch a team that has zero chance of winning a national championship.
 
orangenirvana said:
I never thought I'd see the day that we'd get less than 30K paid attendance for a football game. Yikes. Not sure what the solution is. The die-hards who reside in Syracuse are slowly dying off. The die-hards who reside in Albany/Rochester/Binghamton are watching all the games on TV or their iphone. And the casuals are simply not interested in going to watch a team that has zero chance of winning a national championship.
I think you are unfair to the casuals
 
Can someone explain to me how the basketball team is 1 or 2 each year in attendance and football is getting 26k per game? There are specific reasons that Bees brings up that are valid but win some games and people will be invested again. I watch every week b/c i'm a weirdo but the product has sucked since about 2001 (and realistically 1998). Even the "Marrone salad days" were on par (for the common fan) with the Pasqualoni denouement.

A rebuild takes time, will be ugly even if we on this board see a ton of upward movement. My parents, who are SU fans, don't pay attention to these green shoots b/c they are at best casual fans who look at win/loss as their attendance barometer.
 
Can someone explain to me how the basketball team is 1 or 2 each year in attendance and football is getting 26k per game? There are specific reasons that Bees brings up that are valid but win some games and people will be invested again. I watch every week b/c i'm a weirdo but the product has sucked since about 2001 (and realistically 1998). Even the "Marrone salad days" were on par (for the common fan) with the Pasqualoni denouement.

A rebuild takes time, will be ugly even if we on this board see a ton of upward movement. My parents, who are SU fans, don't pay attention to these green shoots b/c they are at best casual fans who look at win/loss as their attendance barometer.

Basketball is a Top 15 program. Football will never ever be a Top 15 program. We might have a Top 15 season (we have only had one since 1992) but we won't have them often. For football we probably only need a 35k stadium at this point. Winning is the cure all but what is winning? Is winning for the masses 8-5? Or is it 10-3? If it is 10-3 then 40k is too big. If we can find a way to keep basketball max at 35k and get football down to 35k, I think we woudl have the perfect stadium.
 
We played penn st at the dome in 2008 I believe.

It was a white out

This is a huge issue. When we do "sellout" games it's because the other team has thousands of fans in the Dome, not because the fans decided to show up. Which is exactly what will happen against LSU this year. I was there for Clemson 2 years ago in what was a near sellout game, and there were TONS of Clemson fans.
 
I think Coyle is going to make a difference.

I think Shafer and his coaching staff will make a difference if they do enough to get extensions.

I think the new administration understands that the University has played a significant role in not creating enough buy in by the community and are working to repair as much damage as possible.

But I don't know how anyone could argue that the first two games weren't an embarrassment. Who cares why people don't come. Nice weather, leaf raking, weddings, kids sports, whatever. If the community can't come up with 40K for six games a year maybe it doesn't deserve a D1 football team.

Exactly, 650,000 people just in the Syracuse Metro area. Then we have Rochester, Utica, Elmira, Ithica, and Albany within 2 and a half hours. We can't get even 40k!?!? That's embarrassing for any team, let alone a top 20 program in all-time wins.
 
This is a post of mine from another thread yesterday about crowds and attendance. So I'll put it here too.

------------------

You guys are making this more difficult than it is.

Obviously winning is paramount. It's been a long time since we were a consistent winning program. It's hard to get back fans after they were a fan then left. Especially when the OOC home schedule is a bit watered down.

BUT

Just as big an issue, and I've said this numerous times, is the preferred seating tickets between the 20's, both downstairs and upstairs. We do OK in the end zones.

Too many of those go left unsold. We have too small a donor base for preferred seating and then we can sell them to the occasional fan who goes to a couple games a year because they cost $80 - $140 per ticket. A lot of casual fans think sideline seats are the "good" seats and wouldn't consider end zones. So a family of 4 looking at the website sees they will have to spend $320 - $560 just to get in. No way Jose'.

SU is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They sell individual game tickets in the preferred area for the cost of the ticket plus a pro-rating of the donation. Thus the high cost for a single game between the 20's. Those are also the sections seen on TV. So they either maintain that pricing strategy or sell individuals without the pro-rated donation. That runs the risk of losing donors, some longtime and the heart of the program. It's tough to pay $140 for your seat and see random joe fan pay $35 (or whatever it is) for the seat next to you. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I had the chance to talk with Dan yesterday about this exact situation. I shared some thoughts with him and it was good to hear they recognize the issue and are assessing ways to address it. Dan had a couple of good ideas himself that I was glad to hear.

My opinion is blow it up. Make donations basketball only. You get a big break when you donate to both anyways. No donations for football that is ticket related. There will still be donors to the football program. Let all current preferred seat holders keep their seats but with no seat donation. Then sell everything for the cost of tickets only. The people now sitting in the upper end zones will buy sideline seats and more will also do so. There will be some cost hit but it may not be as big as some think. Then over time, if the team starts winning more and the fans come back, slowly institute the preferred seating donation concept on a smaller scale and grow it from there.
 
I never thought I'd see the day that we'd get less than 30K paid attendance for a football game. Yikes.

Not sure what the solution is. The die-hards who reside in Syracuse are slowly dying off. The die-hards who reside in Albany/Rochester/Binghamton are watching all the games on TV or their iphone. And the casuals are simply not interested in going to watch a team that has zero chance of winning a national championship.

Solution. Win (Keep Winning)
 
Exactly, 650,000 people just in the Syracuse Metro area. Then we have Rochester, Utica, Elmira, Ithica, and Albany within 2 and a half hours. We can't get even 40k!?!? That's embarrassing for any team, let alone a top 20 program in all-time wins.

there isn't 650K people in Syracuse or even Onondaga county. 450-500K tops
 
People want to not believe me but, the local media bagging on the team all the time and putting out stories about how terrible everything is (even when its not) doesn't help. It makes people not give a sh I t.

1. Better marketing/ideas
2. Win
3. Sustained positive energy.

You people have any idea what that dome would be like if we didn't win for basketball. LOL>
 
The casual fan who goes once every two or three years has most likely not seem a good game at home for ten to fifteen years. I haven't done the math yet but it takes a long time to establish that bad a pattern and a long time to reverse it

I'm an out of town die hard fan but casual in the sense of going to games. Typically trek up for a basketball game 2 out of every 3 years and catch things all MSG and was at the Notre Dame Met Life game (There were more SU fans there than on Saturday). My fellow friends who are alumni and fans don't have much of an interest in SU football for what that's worth. It started with our feeling of how Coach P had all the talent in the world and the program slipped from there and never truly recovered. I'm a believer, though, and have been ever since - liked Marrone a lot and Shafe even more.

Went up for the game on Saturday (4, 4.5 hour drive; stayed over Friday night) and was blown away by how different the atmosphere is - the last game i attended in the Dome was in 2001 and was a freshman and sophomore for the Fiesta and Orange Bowl years so I know what it can be like in there and in the surrounding area regarding buzz and game day atmosphere and the whole thing. It certainly isnt that way any longer. I get that it was an early game, Rosh Hashana weekend (potentially limiting out of towners/alum) but boy was I surprised at how loud 26k (I admit i'm part of the problem b/c i repurchased tickets from a fellow syracusefan.com board member) fans can get. Sitting up in 302, we really enjoyed ourselves. Best view in the Dome, I think. I'm hoping Dungey is able to draw the people from both near and far. That kid is special with moxie and the "it" factor. (Have other thoughts on the game; maybe to post elsewhere). Not really sure what my point is here, but something has to change to draw the people. I'm not sure winning alone (unless we're a top 15 team) is going to do it.
 
maybe a separate forum could be created for all the people that like to create threads b i t c h i n g about attendance. Every week it's the same thing, usually started by someone that does not attend the home games, passing the blame on the people that live here.

Why in the world as a casual football fan would anyone want to spend money on the product that has been put out there for the past 15 years? For those with a just a little bit of interest just read that we've lost our QB for the year and are relying on a freshman = another year of sucking.

Instead of passing blame why not be thankful for those that actually do still go? Which is mostly local fans, it's obviously not the OP. Do you have any idea how much it sucked to watch those home games in person last year? It was depressing, but the diehards still show up. No thanks to the OP by the way.

SU needs to fix it if they want the local fan base to grow.
 
"And the casuals are simply not interested in going to watch a team that has zero chance of winning a national championship."

they're not interested in watching teams that terrible and boring at home way too much

I know a lot of people that don't go to games. Boring is never cited as one of the points of not going. Just saying.
 

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