Saw a tweet that summed up the local fan base

[HeaterCuse22]

Some people, wait for it, just don't give a %6K about football or SU.

 

[orangenirvana]

Solution. Win (Keep Winning)

I just don't think it's that simple.

And there's only so much "winning" a program like Syracuse's can do when competing against the Florida State's and Clemson's of the world.

 

[rrlbees]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse,_New_York According to Wikipedia, there's actually over 732,000 people in the metro area. Which makes it even worse. That would mean we need just 1/18th of only the Cuse metro area to get 40k, and we can't do it.

Population is never a good way to estimate how many should go to games. There are plenty of places with much larger population that don't draw and there are small places that draw large crowds.

 

[orangenirvana]

People want to not believe me but, the local media bagging on the team all the time and putting out stories about how terrible everything is (even when its not) doesn't help. It makes people not give a sh I t.

1. Better marketing/ideas
2. Win
3. Sustained positive energy.

You people have any idea what that dome would be like if we didn't win for basketball. LOL>

It's not the local media's job to help sell tickets to SU games.

 

[TheCusian]

It's not the local media's job to help sell tickets to SU games.

Nope. It's there job to get clicks. And there has been a decided slant towards the negative over there for a while to get them. It's gotten better since Coyle got here, but winning should limit that even more.

 

[orange_in_VA]

maybe a separate forum could be created for all the people that like to create threads b i t c h i n g about attendance. Every week it's the same thing, usually started by someone that does not attend the home games, passing the blame on the people that live here.

Why in the world as a casual football fan would anyone want to spend money on the product that has been put out there for the past 15 years? For those with a just a little bit of interest just read that we've lost our QB for the year and are relying on a freshman = another year of sucking.

Instead of passing blame why not be thankful for those that actually do still go? Which is mostly local fans, it's obviously not the OP. Do you have any idea how much it sucked to watch those home games in person last year? It was depressing, but the diehards still show up. No thanks to the OP by the way.

SU needs to fix it if they want the local fan base to grow.

This is the thing that the local diehards on the board don't seem to get. We aren't talking about them! We can appreciate how loud they were, and commend them for showing up to all the games, but at the same time realize how awful it is that we can't manage to get even 40k at the Dome. Worst attendance in 32 years.

Kansas gets more fans then we do, and they've won 13 games total in the last five seasons, and are 0-2 right now. They just had 38k show up this week, after losing to FCS South Dakota State at home last week.

14 teams had more fans at their Spring Game, than we could manage at a conference divisional game, coming off a blowout win. It's atrocious.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

It's not the local media's job to help sell tickets to SU games.

No one said it was. I just said they are negative. It effects people in the community. That's all I said.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

I just don't think it's that simple.

And there's only so much "winning" a program like Syracuse's can do when competing against the Florida State's and Clemson's of the world.

That's why even in our hayday we couldn't sell out.

 

[KellySyracuse]

This is the thing that the local diehards on the board don't seem to get. We aren't talking about them! We can appreciate how loud they were, and commend them for showing up to all the games, but at the same time realize how awful it is that we can't manage to get even 40k at the Dome. Worst attendance in 32 years.

Kansas gets more fans then we do, and they've won 13 games total in the last five seasons, and are 0-2 right now. They just had 38k show up this week, after losing to FCS South Dakota State at home last week.

14 teams had more fans at their Spring Game, than we could manage at a conference divisional game, coming off a blowout win. It's atrocious.

What do you suggest should be done to get the locals to go? And let's not compare a state university to a private university regarding attendance, it's apples and oranges

 

[MikeSU02]

This is a post of mine from another thread yesterday about crowds and attendance. So I'll put it here too.

------------------

You guys are making this more difficult than it is.

Obviously winning is paramount. It's been a long time since we were a consistent winning program. It's hard to get back fans after they were a fan then left. Especially when the OOC home schedule is a bit watered down.

BUT

Just as big an issue, and I've said this numerous times, is the preferred seating tickets between the 20's, both downstairs and upstairs. We do OK in the end zones.

Too many of those go left unsold. We have too small a donor base for preferred seating and then we can sell them to the occasional fan who goes to a couple games a year because they cost $80 - $140 per ticket. A lot of casual fans think sideline seats are the "good" seats and wouldn't consider end zones. So a family of 4 looking at the website sees they will have to spend $320 - $560 just to get in. No way Jose'.

SU is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They sell individual game tickets in the preferred area for the cost of the ticket plus a pro-rating of the donation. Thus the high cost for a single game between the 20's. Those are also the sections seen on TV. So they either maintain that pricing strategy or sell individuals without the pro-rated donation. That runs the risk of losing donors, some longtime and the heart of the program. It's tough to pay $140 for your seat and see random joe fan pay $35 (or whatever it is) for the seat next to you. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I had the chance to talk with Dan yesterday about this exact situation. I shared some thoughts with him and it was good to hear they recognize the issue and are assessing ways to address it. Dan had a couple of good ideas himself that I was glad to hear.

My opinion is blow it up. Make donations basketball only. You get a big break when you donate to both anyways. No donations for football that is ticket related. There will still be donors to the football program. Let all current preferred seat holders keep their seats but with no seat donation. Then sell everything for the cost of tickets only. The people now sitting in the upper end zones will buy sideline seats and more will also do so. There will be some cost hit but it may not be as big as some think. Then over time, if the team starts winning more and the fans come back, slowly institute the preferred seating donation concept on a smaller scale and grow it from there.

Great post. And with access to the information for analytics / data sciences teams, the current situation should never occur.

It seems to be a financial failure (speculative based on butts in seats) and clearly is a divisive feature for people that are spending their money to commit to the program.

 

[orange_in_VA]

What do you suggest should be done to get the locals to go? And let's not compare a state university to a private university regarding attendance, it's apples and oranges

Ok, comparing state vs private is a fair point. What I was trying to illustrate though, is us against arguably the worst P5 team in the country right now.

We've made and won 3 bowl games in the last 5 years. KU hasn't been to a bowl game since 2008.

 

[JeremyCuse]

This is the thing that the local diehards on the board don't seem to get. We aren't talking about them! We can appreciate how loud they were, and commend them for showing up to all the games, but at the same time realize how awful it is that we can't manage to get even 40k at the Dome. Worst attendance in 32 years.

Kansas gets more fans then we do, and they've won 13 games total in the last five seasons, and are 0-2 right now. They just had 38k show up this week, after losing to FCS South Dakota State at home last week.

14 teams had more fans at their Spring Game, than we could manage at a conference divisional game, coming off a blowout win. It's atrocious.

What the out of towners don't seem to get is that complaining about it on here is pointless. The only people on here are diehards most of which are already going to the game. Calling out the locals on here is pointless as they will never see it.

Using Kansas as an example is laughable. I saw there game against South Dakota the place was empty if they had 20K there it would be a miracle.

The larger fan base of the mid 80's and early 90's is a quarter of what it once was. Many of those fans have either retired and moved away, are to old physically to make the trip or have passed on. With the awful play the last 15 years were not replacing them 1 for 1 but more like 1 for 4.

Again people dont realize how much of a non-factor attending games has become for a lot of locals and thats not just football its all games at the dome. SU vs Cornell bball was lucky to have 10K last year. Football is clearly in a much worse overall spot but the point remains.

 

[orange_in_VA]

What the out of towners don't seem to get is that complaining about it on here is pointless. The only people on here are diehards most of which are already going to the game. Calling out the locals on here is pointless as they will never see it.

Using Kansas as an example is laughable. I saw there game against South Dakota the place was empty if they had 20K there it would be a miracle.

The larger fan base of the mid 80's and early 90's is a quarter of what it once was. Many of those fans have either retired and moved away, are to old physically to make the trip or have passed on. With the awful play the last 15 years were not replacing them 1 for 1 but more like 1 for 4.

Again people dont realize how much of a non-factor attending games has become for a lot of locals and thats not just football its all games at the dome. SU vs Cornell bball was lucky to have 10K last year. Football is clearly in a much worse overall spot but the point remains.

KU announced 30,144 for SDSU, and around 38k for Memphis after getting beat by SDSU.

I actually get everything you're saying about the younger generation. I see it first hand being a member of that group.

I also understand that the people who don't show up won't see what we are posting, but it's worth being discussed as it continues to negatively affect the perception of our program. We were on national TV last week in the top 5 worst moments of the week in College Football because of our fanbase. They literally made fun of our empty Dome on national TV. Bottom line, our real fans are great, but our fanbase in general is awful, and it's infuriating.

 

[CuseCrew08]

I really think Coyle is the man for the job to turn the attendance issue around. His comments so far regarding getting back into the Syracuse community tells me he gets it. TGD's NYC campaign might have been necessary for the ACC but now we're here.

Also on what Bees was saying about the pricing structure. It needs to be blown up and start from scratch. WAY too many empty seats on TV with full-ish end zones. Maybe after the 1st quarter any open seats are up for grabs! That would be quite a show.

 

[KaiserUEO]

im full of piss & vinegar this morgning so lets go...

will you cny baboons please Fn explain to me how the games at Giants Stadium hurt attendence at the Dome??

only 1 game was moved, usc.

state penn was a 1-1-1

nd is nd and was smart scheduling regardless of conference affiliation...and we discussed numerous times the nd to the Dome situation, which proved team Kaiser to be correct in stating that the Dome was getting a game.

there has been NO EXODUS of games to Giants Stadium but there has been a whole bunch of NJ recruits choosing Syracuse.

so everybody needs to about that and find another reason to hide behind for poor attendence.

this is ridiculous. its like a want your cake and to eat it too scenario...but because 1 other person had 1 slice, you refuse to eat the rest of the cake you have.

stupid, stupid, stupid.

 

[dasher]

People want to not believe me but, the local media bagging on the team all the time and putting out stories about how terrible everything is (even when its not) doesn't help. It makes people not give a sh I t.

1. Better marketing/ideas
2. Win
3. Sustained positive energy.

You people have any idea what that dome would be like if we didn't win for basketball. LOL>

maybe if the last coach didn't do everything in his power to alienate the media, that wouldn't happen. It works both ways. You want a supportive media, don't be a A-hole to them.

 

[dasher]

im full of piss & vinegar this morgning so lets go...

will you cny baboons please Fn explain to me how the games at Giants Stadium hurt attendence at the Dome??

only 1 game was moved, usc.

state penn was a 1-1-1

nd is nd and was smart scheduling regardless of conference affiliation...and we discussed numerous times the nd to the Dome situation, which proved team Kaiser to be correct in stating that the Dome was getting a game.

there has been NO EXODUS of games to Giants Stadium but there has been a whole bunch of NJ recruits choosing Syracuse.

so everybody needs to about that and find another reason to hide behind for poor attendence.

this is ridiculous. its like a want your cake and to eat it too scenario...but because 1 other person had 1 slice, you refuse to eat the rest of the cake you have.

stupid, stupid, stupid.

Look, it's not the people here's fault that they DIDN'T RUN THE BALL AT THE END!!!

 

[Bayside44]

Look, it's not the people here's fault that they DIDN'T RUN THE BALL AT THE END!!!

Where did Coughlin get his education? Dumbass... :bang:

 

[HeaterCuse22]

This is a pointless exercise.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

im full of piss & vinegar this morgning so lets go...

will you cny baboons please Fn explain to me how the games at Giants Stadium hurt attendence at the Dome??

only 1 game was moved, usc.

state penn was a 1-1-1

nd is nd and was smart scheduling regardless of conference affiliation...and we discussed numerous times the nd to the Dome situation, which proved team Kaiser to be correct in stating that the Dome was getting a game.

there has been NO EXODUS of games to Giants Stadium but there has been a whole bunch of NJ recruits choosing Syracuse.

so everybody needs to about that and find another reason to hide behind for poor attendence.

this is ridiculous. its like a want your cake and to eat it too scenario...but because 1 other person had 1 slice, you refuse to eat the rest of the cake you have.

stupid, stupid, stupid.

I do not know one person. IN my entire circle of people I know that feel this way. This is a straw man someone created. DieHard Season (good seats) ticket holders are the only ones who care about it.

 

[KellySyracuse]

im full of piss & vinegar this morgning so lets go...

will you cny baboons please Fn explain to me how the games at Giants Stadium hurt attendence at the Dome??

only 1 game was moved, usc.

state penn was a 1-1-1

nd is nd and was smart scheduling regardless of conference affiliation...and we discussed numerous times the nd to the Dome situation, which proved team Kaiser to be correct in stating that the Dome was getting a game.

there has been NO EXODUS of games to Giants Stadium but there has been a whole bunch of NJ recruits choosing Syracuse.

so everybody needs to about that and find another reason to hide behind for poor attendence.

this is ridiculous. its like a want your cake and to eat it too scenario...but because 1 other person had 1 slice, you refuse to eat the rest of the cake you have.

stupid, stupid, stupid.

I understand what you're saying but the choice to move marquee games only helped acerbate the attendance problem. I'm not going to argue one way or the other if that decision helped get us into the ACC or helped with recruiting. What it did do is give the older generation that had been ponying up donation money for years another reason to throw in the towel. And that is one reason why we've lost a whole new generation of fans.

I do think bees really hit the nail on the head though, the pricing structure for the high quality seats needs to change

 

[Macky44]

If they moved Wake Forest games to Metlife, no locals would've complained. (I know that this matchup would not get a MetLife slot in reality, just making a point)

You can't move every big OOC game to New Jersey for several years, and then complain about people complaining about it, while referencing poor attendance for a Wake Forest game.

Could we have knocked off USC or Penn State in the Dome? Those games were very competitive. Would home field have made enough of a difference to win? Would our program be in better shape if we'd played and won those games at home, to where we wouldn't draw this poorly because more people would be thinking of the great time they had when we knocked off top 5 USC in the Dome a few years ago?

I completely agree. I attended the MetLife games, but i KNOW that it absolutely crushed many local fans that were incapable of making the trip out there.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I have made this type of post once a year for the past six years but now seems like a good time to rehash it again:

Regarding the decline of attendance there are multiple issues at play. 98% of them will be fixed with consistent winning I think we can all agree on that. But until we get to that day (if ever) there are a host of other reasons why attendance has eroded. Here are a few of them:

Marketing - Gross did a lot of great things as AD but Marketing was not one of them. Under his watch its been an absolute disaster. Television, radio, and print ads have been nearly non existent and when you do see one its usually during the 11pm broadcast of Syracuse time capsule showing the 1994 SU vs Rutgers game. Who exactly is watching that save for Mr. Local diehard who already has tickets. When SU does put together a good promotion or deal you need a Lewis and Clark type expedition to find out about it. I am as diehard as they come but if it wasnt for this board I wouldnt know about 75% of the promotions SU is trying to run, how the heck is Susie or Joe casual fan going to hear about it? Just promoting games in general has become an epic struggle on the hill. You would have a better chance of finding the Arc of the convenant then seeing an AD touting SU being 2-0 going into this Saturday on TV.

General ineptness of the SU athletic Dept - People like Dan Bartlett and a few others have done a good job turning this perception around but there is still a feeling out there amongst the fanbase that dealing with SU for anything is a total nightmare. Whether its misspelling multiple peoples names in high profile situations (how the hell do you misspell a players name your honoring), odd scheduling decisions, issues dealing with alumni, disasterous 44 announcement etc etc etc. Another perfrect example is the new lot that was supposed to open up across from the fine lot after SU bought all the houses that were there and tore them down. The lot was supposed to open in the fall of 2014, instead theres some sort of legal issue between SU and ESF and that area remains fenced off and is now overgrown and looks awful.

Local population apathy - I have mentioned it before but the situation with the local population is far from great. A large chunk of the population simply doesnt have SU football on their radar. I can't tell you how many times in the course of a conversation that someone gave me a puzzled look when I told them I was as the dome for the SU game this past weekend. Most casual fans or peripheral followers don't even consider going to the game, it simply doesn't cross there minds. They may catch it on TV or ask how it went if theres some buzz for a bigger game but actually attending seems absolutey foreign to them. Its one of the oddest things I have ever seen. SU football also still suffers from a large anti-hometown bias. Its cooled a little bit from a few years ago but there is still a good % of people who love to mock the program and wouldnt go if you picked them up in a limo and gave them 50 yardline seats.

Concessions/parking/misc - Syracuse is in a tough spot here. The dome isnt in the best locations and obviously parking is limited in the surrounding area. While I dont agree with parking being a big issue it definitely does affect attendance in a negative way. A lof of parking space has been lost the past few years to construction (understandable) but SU hasn't done much to counter balance that. The one public garage available across from the Dome that anyone could park at is now contracted through SU and available via permit only for fball and bball. As someone who has a parking pass and tailgates it doesn't affect me at all but for the casual fan its definitely an issue. Most of them simply aren't interested in parking at Manley or Skytop and taking a shuttle. I know its an issue most schools have but when your struggling with attendance and the on the field product is mediocore at best its something that does play a role. Syracuse has done a nice job opening up the beverage options at the Dome but the food options still feel like is 1987. With a great local food and wine scene I can't figure out for the life of me why SU hasn't capitalized on this. Not going to rehash the point that many have made previously but with so many options it makes zero sense that SU isnt contracting with Dino, Gianelli, Tullys, and many others to offer much better food options. Not only could they charge more but it opens up so many different opportunities for SU on a year round basis for all of the Dome events.

 

[Macky44]

I have had SU football season tickets for 25 years and I can't wait for the Notre Dame game at Met Life next season. With the lousy attendance in the dome this season it will be great for these players to play in front of a packed NFL stadium. The bandwagon fans in this town have no reason to complain since they are not showing up for home games in the dome.

I personally think the Met Life games were great for recruiting. My biggest fear with the attendance this season is how other coaches are going to use it against our staff on the recruiting trail. Imagine showing a recruit a photo of an empty dome for the 2015 ACC home opener.

and yet...the crowd was still very loud.

 

[Macky44]

Congrats. My angst is directed towards the locals that don't go. I respect what you do for the program.

Your angst is directed towards " casual fans". Why are you wasting your time???