Saw a tweet that summed up the local fan base

[Macky44]

For the 2nd time, those are a small subset of the seats. You think the whole stadium is $99 seasons? And those sections aren't the problem.

Don't expect them to think logically when trying to make a bad point. They are using the Fox news angle.

 

[orangenirvana]

"And the casuals are simply not interested in going to watch a team that has zero chance of winning a national championship."

they're not interested in watching teams that terrible and boring at home way too much

But exciting losses won't do anything to lure the casuals either.

The casuals will arrive when the game is an event. The game is an event when the team is nationally recognized and there is hope for a special season.

Casuals packed the Dome against Tennessee in 1998 because there was hope that the team could have a truly special season. SU football was nationally recognized all preseason. It was an event to be in the Dome that day.

That hope hasn't existed for a very long time - and combined with easy access to every game (for those casuals who are interested enough in watching the team), there's really no point in going.

 

[Macky44]

I agree that it's a shared burden and the school and AD have done a lot to alienate locals and upstaters, which I've never agreed with.

But it's a private university that isn't within a major metropolitan city limit with a football team that hasn't had a very good season since 2001.

If you are banking on people that went to Cuse in NYC, DC, Boston, etc to fill the games against Wake Forest, you aren't going to ever be satisfied. It's not going to happen barring a major change in investment from the school and a series of 9 and 10 win seasons where we are getting national media coverage.

The school needs to mend ties to the locals and those within the semi-local I-81 and I-90 corridors.

They need more added value attractions and to make upstate NY folks feel welcome with or without families in tow.

I can tell you that you will not be getting the kids I went to school with that are in NYC to attend a game like wake forest in the Dome. It's not happening. And the school isn't even close to getting them in the numbers to fill the Dome.

" Get a life", " this is a one horse-town" lol

 

[jgeorge322]

if cuse wins and becomes top 25 team again, we will be back to mcnabb level crowds. its all about the ws. boston red sox games are empty when they suck too.

 

[Millhouse]

But exciting losses won't do anything to lure the casuals either.

The casuals will arrive when the game is an event. The game is an event when the team is nationally recognized and there is hope for a special season.

Casuals packed the Dome against Tennessee in 1998 because there was hope that the team could have a truly special season. SU football was nationally recognized all preseason. It was an event to be in the Dome that day.

That hope hasn't existed for a very long time - and combined with easy access to every game (for those casuals who are interested enough in watching the team), there's really no point in going.

you don't know that.

all we know is that they generally stink at home against decent to good teams, especially on offense

their games have been boring forever, we all know that. we'll catch on quick when they stop being boring but the casual fan who's been burned 5 times in a row is going to be a tougher sell

 

[NKR1978]

" Get a life", " this is a one horse-town" lol

How do people hold a grudge for that long?

One issue is that every time we get a big crowd the team seems to s**** the bed.

I think we'll see a little better crowd against CMU and them hopefully45,000+ against LSU. If the team makes a good showing and gives the fans something to cheer for, then a lot of people might come back for Pitt. Especially if we can win one or both of USF and Virginia.

 

[phil77]

IMO Metlife didn't cause the poor attendance but the poor attendance caused Metlife.

 

[Scooch]

I agree with most of that. But on the other hand, there are several out of town posters here who used to go to almost every game. Now they are absent for almost every game. I know life such as kids gets in the way. But where are those that came after them?

I fit your criteria. Graduated in '95 and was a season ticket holder from '95 through '03, driving 600 miles round trip for games. Managed a block of 12 seats where no one was closer than 150 miles away. Those that graduated a few years after me probably lost interest in the years immediately after McNabb left.

6-5, 6-5, 10-3, 4-8, 6-6, 6-6.

That's not GumpRobian incompetence, but it's a much different dynamic between traveling hundreds of miles to see an 8+ win team on the fringes of the top 25 that scores a ton of points, and a 6-win team that is rarely in the top 25 that has a relatively pedestrian offense.

Honestly had we still been performing at a McNabb-era level in 2003 I probably would have kept my seasons. But since life had gotten in the way, and the fact there was NO demand for tickets, made it a pretty easy decision to given them up. People who came after me have largely only known SU football to be at best mediocre, at worst be an embarrassment. Meanwhile they've seen SU hoops be among the top 10 programs in the country in terms of regular season success. I know a LOT of alums of my era and after who attend hoops games at the Dome. Very few do the same for football.

 

[KellySyracuse]

speaking of parking and access... some genius thought it would be a good idea to block Harrison St. between S Crouse and University for the better part of Saturday morning to remove concrete barriers that were surrounding the new apt building next to the Skyler. If you were trying to get to the open lot you had to go around the block to get there. Not a big deal but geez, why in heck would you pick game day to block one of the main roads from 81 getting to the Harrison lot and the garage?

Certainly wasn't an SU decision, had to be the guy that owns the Skyler. But it just goes to show you the large disconnect going on up on the hill.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You can only suck for so long before people just give up. You can't talk about the good old days forever, McNabb, Freeney, etc. gets really old. I am so sick of it. In 2012, we finally put together a run at the end of the year where we looked like we were coming back to respectability. People would have a tough time selling me that we weren't a legit top 25 team at the end of that 2012 year. So every year we lose fans due to apathy, moving out of town, old age and we create no new ones because we have stunk for so long, not tough to figure out.

I have a tougher time parking in DT Ithaca on a Friday night when the students are here than I do for a Syracuse football game, never understood this argument. Makes zero sense to me.

 

[Macky44]

People want to not believe me but, the local media bagging on the team all the time and putting out stories about how terrible everything is (even when its not) doesn't help. It makes people not give a sh I t.

1. Better marketing/ideas
2. Win
3. Sustained positive energy.

You people have any idea what that dome would be like if we didn't win for basketball. LOL>

I couldnt agree more with this. The local media is freakin awful and a big reason for casual fans having such a negative opinion on the team. Substandard just makes things 1000 times worse on top of all the bad radio.

 

[Macky44]

Exactly, 650,000 people just in the Syracuse Metro area. Then we have Rochester, Utica, Elmira, Ithica, and Albany within 2 and a half hours. We can't get even 40k!?!? That's embarrassing for any team, let alone a top 20 program in all-time wins.

So you are saying the giants and jets should be able to fill a 1 million seat stadium every game. Makes sense.

 

[Scooch]

You can only suck for so long before people just give up. You can't talk about the good old days forever, McNabb, Freeney, etc. gets really old. I am so sick of it. In 2012, we finally put together a run at the end of the year where we looked like we were coming back to respectability. People would have a tough time selling me that we weren't a legit top 25 team at the end of the year. So every year we lose fans due to apathy, moving out of town, old age and we create no new ones because we have stunk for so long, not tough to figure out.

I have a tougher time parking in DT Ithaca on a Friday night when the students are here than I do for a Syracuse football game, never understood this argument. Makes zero sense to me.

Yep.

And honestly, here's why I don't stress about attendance...

10/11/14: Florida State -- 43,295
10/5/13: Clemson -- 48,961
10/21/11: West Virginia -- 45,265
Etc.

Every year we have at least one game where draw quite well. I expect the game vs. LSU to follow that trend. To me that says that there is still a healthy appetite for SU football. It's just that the fan base has been served hot garbage for most of the past decade instead of steak. After a while people don't want to choke that down.

 

[Macky44]

It's not the local media's job to help sell tickets to SU games.

Apparently it IS their job to trash the program endlessly though, even when it isnt warranted.

 

[Macky44]

What do you suggest should be done to get the locals to go? And let's not compare a state university to a private university regarding attendance, it's apples and oranges

Another fact that people like to ignore. State vs Private is a huge factor.

 

[Millhouse]

Yep.

And honestly, here's why I don't stress about attendance...

10/11/14: Florida State -- 43,295
10/5/13: Clemson -- 48,961
10/21/11: West Virginia -- 45,265
Etc.

Every year we have at least one game where draw quite well. I expect the game vs. LSU to follow that trend. To me that says that there is still a healthy appetite for SU football. It's just that the fan base has been served hot garbage for most of the past decade instead of steak. After a while people don't want to choke that down.

if you're going to go to one game a year as a casual fan, you have your pick.

 

[Macky44]

im full of piss & vinegar this morgning so lets go...

will you cny baboons please Fn explain to me how the games at Giants Stadium hurt attendence at the Dome??

only 1 game was moved, usc.

state penn was a 1-1-1

nd is nd and was smart scheduling regardless of conference affiliation...and we discussed numerous times the nd to the Dome situation, which proved team Kaiser to be correct in stating that the Dome was getting a game.

there has been NO EXODUS of games to Giants Stadium but there has been a whole bunch of NJ recruits choosing Syracuse.

so everybody needs to about that and find another reason to hide behind for poor attendence.

this is ridiculous. its like a want your cake and to eat it too scenario...but because 1 other person had 1 slice, you refuse to eat the rest of the cake you have.

stupid, stupid, stupid.

Who doesn't want the whole cake? Think BIG Kaiser.

 

[Scooch]

if you're going to go to one game a year as a casual fan, you have your pick.

Yep.

I remember the first year I got seasons tickets ('95). Being a naive recent graduate I called (called!) the Dome Box Office right at 9am the day they went on sale, fearful I would be shut out of getting seats (I needed 10). I mean, that's just laughable now, but back then I assumed tickets were snapped up quickly.

By the time I gave up my season tix in the spring of '04 I knew that not only was it possible to get tickets to any game I wanted, at any time pretty much right up until kickoff, but also that there was no market to sell my tickets when I couldn't go, even at face!

So no demand + a mediocre-to-lousy product = unlimited choice.

 

[orangecuse]

Another fact that people like to ignore. State vs Private is a huge factor.

Is it though? Even when considering the size of the population nearby? For what it's worth, as many others have eluded to, I agree that since the product has been so poor for well over a decade, people just don't want to associate themselves with such a negative reality. People want to feel good about things they invest their valuable time and interests in. If they don't attach themselves, they won't emotionally expose themselves to the disappointment and feeling that consistent losing breeds. If they're winning, the parking, etc. excuses would be nuisances for sure, but, imo, wouldn't keep people from not showing up...at least to a respectable level. The private school argument doesn't seem to have a negative impact on 'Cuse hoops...if the dome court was set up at midfield, they'd draw more folks for hoops than football for the biggest games...

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Yep.

And honestly, here's why I don't stress about attendance...

10/11/14: Florida State -- 43,295
10/5/13: Clemson -- 48,961
10/21/11: West Virginia -- 45,265
Etc.

Every year we have at least one game where draw quite well. I expect the game vs. LSU to follow that trend. To me that says that there is still a healthy appetite for SU football. It's just that the fan base has been served hot garbage for most of the past decade instead of steak. After a while people don't want to choke that down.

Is it a healthy appetite for SU football or an appetite for seeing FSU, Clemson, WV play?

The problem is you can never rely on casual fans or other team's fans to fill your stadium. There is no point in having nearly 50k capacity to satisfy one game a year at 45k. If we are getting 35k for five games and 45k for one game, why have a stadium that big? Also casual fans don't deserve the freedom to always have a seat at the table. If they know they don't need to buy a ticket package for the year's big game, they will just get a single game ticket or find a cheap ticket on secondary market. The consumer has all the purchasing power when it comes to SU football. That has to change.

IMO SU needs to find out how many passionate fans it has between the Buffalo-Watertown-Albany-Binghamton circumference (easy drives). If that number really is only 20k (or less) then we need to drastically reduce the capacity. You cannot expect casual fans to fill 60% of your stadium. If that number is 30k then SU needs to slightly reduce capacity and do a better job of getting its passionate fans to attend games. Then SU can work on turning the casual fans into passionate fans. Followed by trying to create casual fans from the remaining population pool.

My concern with our fanbase is that either 1. we do not have enough passionate fans or 2. we are getting less than 90% of our passionate fans to show up to games. If we have 30k passionate fans and are only getting 25k to show up then something is wrong and SU needs to fix it. If your die hards aren't showing up, then you have little chance at getting the casuals in the door.

I hope SU is studying this but I fear they are not. Colleges are not professional teams where they have large staffs to handle these things. Which is why a lot of this gets outsourced. But when you outsource you have to rely on someone who is out of the know to your situation.

I wonder what the optimal capacity is for our program. If we have 30k die hards do we need a new 44k stadium/renovation? Can we really expect 30% of attendance to come from casual fans? People can say winning cures all. That is true but how likely is it that SU will be a consistent 9 W team? Because that is what it will take IMO to average 44k. Realistically I think 9 win seasons will be a 1 in 10 year type of thing. College football is too competitive, SU has too many restraints, and good coaches rarely stay at one spot. IMO 8-5 seasons every year won't bring more than 40k per game (outside of the one name team we play every year). On top of this we have HD TV and every game available to watch. These things didn't exist in the past. Which is why everyone is struggling with attendance.

I rather see SU got to 40k and sell out every game than go to 44k and sell out 1 game a year. Having a sell out streak can create pride in the fanbase and can be used to sell recruits. IMO it is worth it to lose those 5k than you would get for one game a year. It also prevents LSU, Clemson, VA Tech, etc fans from having a large amount of people in the Dome.

 

[Bayside44]

Didn't this program win 3 bowl games in the last 5 seasons? Granted they weren't New Years Day type games but it's not that bad.

The Dome pricepoints however need to reflect reality.

Also, FWIW, these games seem like they last forever...

 

[Macky44]

How do people hold a grudge for that long?

One issue is that every time we get a big crowd the team seems to s**** the bed.

I think we'll see a little better crowd against CMU and them hopefully45,000+ against LSU. If the team makes a good showing and gives the fans something to cheer for, then a lot of people might come back for Pitt. Especially if we can win one or both of USF and Virginia.

I don't hold a grudge as ive been going to games since i was old enough to get there by myself when i didnt go with adults. There are people that were put off by that though.

 

[Millhouse]

Yep.

I remember the first year I got seasons tickets ('95). Being a naive recent graduate I called (called!) the Dome Box Office right at 9am the day they went on sale, fearful I would be shut out of getting seats (I needed 10). I mean, that's just laughable now, but back then I assumed tickets were snapped up quickly.

By the time I gave up my season tix in the spring of '04 I knew that not only was it possible to get tickets to any game I wanted, at any time pretty much right up until kickoff, but also that there was no market to sell my tickets when I couldn't go, even at face!

So no demand + a mediocre-to-lousy product = unlimited choice.

they gotta reduce capacity enough to make the big games a tough ticket and go crazy on offense to offer up something unique to NFL fans who aren't that interested in SU

 

[JHarris44]

If come Thursday or Friday of a game day and ticket sales aren't cracking 30k, I'd consider placing Orange Tarp in a few of the high end zone sections and encourage those who came to move closer to the middle. That'll increase the sound even more. Had that been done on Saturday, the Dome would have been really loud, I think. Again, I was impressed with how loud it was for having only 20 in the seats or thereabouts.

 

[sabach]

All I know is this. Ninety-Nine bucks for season tickets for seven games in seat locations that would be considered good seats in many high level Div 1 stadiums is one of the best deals I know of.