Saw a tweet that summed up the local fan base

[Millhouse]

The preferred seating PDFs don't work on Cuse.com. From those you can see how many A level seats there are for BBall and FB. I know BBall has six sections of A (plus risers) and that FB has 4 (minus top 1/2 of upper deck). I wonder how many of the BBall A level people do not also have FB A level. Including donation a season ticket in FB for those people only costs $245 per seat. If you have any interest in FB at all it would be crazy not to grab a 50 yard line seat for $35 per game.

Are those seats in preferred being sold and we have no shows because people don't care? The single ticket prices are out of whack. But the season ticket prices are as cheap as can be.

how many times a year does anyone want to go to the dome? 18 home basketball games last year.

those people don't want URI to be one of 24 yearly trips to the dome. they can just buy a great seat to the one or two worthy football games for way less than 245

who can fit that many games in their schedule. the only time i ever went to every game for any team was in the bills 90s heyday and i had no responsibilities or conflicts as a high school kid and even that got to be a bit much

basketball kills football and it's not the sport of basketball being better than football, it's just somewhat zero sum and going to a basketball is a way better bet (crowds, entertainment, etc)

 

[HeaterCuse22]

I have made this type of post once a year for the past six years but now seems like a good time to rehash it again:

Regarding the decline of attendance there are multiple issues at play. 98% of them will be fixed with consistent winning I think we can all agree on that. But until we get to that day (if ever) there are a host of other reasons why attendance has eroded. Here are a few of them:

Marketing - Gross did a lot of great things as AD but Marketing was not one of them. Under his watch its been an absolute disaster. Television, radio, and print ads have been nearly non existent and when you do see one its usually during the 11pm broadcast of Syracuse time capsule showing the 1994 SU vs Rutgers game. Who exactly is watching that save for Mr. Local diehard who already has tickets. When SU does put together a good promotion or deal you need a Lewis and Clark type expedition to find out about it. I am as diehard as they come but if it wasnt for this board I wouldnt know about 75% of the promotions SU is trying to run, how the heck is Susie or Joe casual fan going to hear about it? Just promoting games in general has become an epic struggle on the hill. You would have a better chance of finding the Arc of the convenant then seeing an AD touting SU being 2-0 going into this Saturday on TV.

General ineptness of the SU athletic Dept - People like Dan Bartlett and a few others have done a good job turning this perception around but there is still a feeling out there amongst the fanbase that dealing with SU for anything is a total nightmare. Whether its misspelling multiple peoples names in high profile situations (how the hell do you misspell a players name your honoring), odd scheduling decisions, issues dealing with alumni, disasterous 44 announcement etc etc etc. Another perfrect example is the new lot that was supposed to open up across from the fine lot after SU bought all the houses that were there and tore them down. The lot was supposed to open in the fall of 2014, instead theres some sort of legal issue between SU and ESF and that area remains fenced off and is now overgrown and looks awful.

Local population apathy - I have mentioned it before but the situation with the local population is far from great. A large chunk of the population simply doesnt have SU football on their radar. I can't tell you how many times in the course of a conversation that someone gave me a puzzled look when I told them I was as the dome for the SU game this past weekend. Most casual fans or peripheral followers don't even consider going to the game, it simply doesn't cross there minds. They may catch it on TV or ask how it went if theres some buzz for a bigger game but actually attending seems absolutey foreign to them. Its one of the oddest things I have ever seen. SU football also still suffers from a large anti-hometown bias. Its cooled a little bit from a few years ago but there is still a good % of people who love to mock the program and wouldnt go if you picked them up in a limo and gave them 50 yardline seats.

Concessions/parking/misc - Syracuse is in a tough spot here. The dome isnt in the best locations and obviously parking is limited in the surrounding area. While I dont agree with parking being a big issue it definitely does affect attendance in a negative way. A lof of parking space has been lost the past few years to construction (understandable) but SU hasn't done much to counter balance that. The one public garage available across from the Dome that anyone could park at is now contracted through SU and available via permit only for fball and bball. As someone who has a parking pass and tailgates it doesn't affect me at all but for the casual fan its definitely an issue. Most of them simply aren't interested in parking at Manley or Skytop and taking a shuttle. I know its an issue most schools have but when your struggling with attendance and the on the field product is mediocore at best its something that does play a role. Syracuse has done a nice job opening up the beverage options at the Dome but the food options still feel like is 1987. With a great local food and wine scene I can't figure out for the life of me why SU hasn't capitalized on this. Not going to rehash the point that many have made previously but with so many options it makes zero sense that SU isnt contracting with Dino, Gianelli, Tullys, and many others to offer much better food options. Not only could they charge more but it opens up so many different opportunities for SU on a year round basis for all of the Dome events.

Parking and accessibility is the biggest concern I hear from people I know. Not to mention there are lots that cost 25 to park for 3 hours.

 

[Scooch]

how many times a year does anyone want to go to the dome? 18 home basketball games last year.

those people don't want URI to be one of 24 yearly trips to the dome. they can just buy a great seat to the one or two worthy football games for way less than 245

who can fit that many games in their schedule. the only time i ever went to every game was in the bills 90s heyday and i had no responsibilities or conflicts as a high school kid and even that got to be a bit much

basketball kills football and it's not the sport of basketball being better than football, it's just somewhat zero sum and going to a basketball is a way better bet (crowds, entertainment, etc)

A couple years ago I did an analysis of combined football and men's basketball attendance among P5 schools and SU received the highest share of our total attendance from hoops by far. I don't think people appreciate the wacky attendance dynamic that's at play at SU.

 

[Millhouse]

Parking and accessibility is the biggest concern I hear from people I know. Not to mention there are lots that cost 25 to park for 3 hours.

but it's not an issue for basketball when the weather is way worse. they're getting bigger crowds on weeknights when people are really pressed for time and all showing up at the same time

 

[Scooch]

Parking and accessibility is the biggest concern I hear from people I know. Not to mention there are lots that cost 25 to park for 3 hours.

I'm sure those are concerns but they're also things that people deal with if they really want to go to a game. I mean you could argue that it's worse for hoops since you have the same parking and accessibility issues but add 2 feet of snow to the mix.

Having grown up in Massachusetts I can speak from authority that going to any game at Fenway Park, Boston Garden or Foxboro Stadium was an exercise is slow torture. Hellacious traffic, distant high-priced parking, and unfathomably poor venues. And yet they were full whenever any team showed the slightest bit of success.

 

[Millhouse]

A couple years ago I did an analysis of combined football and men's basketball attendance among P5 schools and SU received the highest share of our total attendance from hoops by far. I don't think people appreciate the wacky attendance dynamic that's at play at SU.

football needs to be drawing alumni who can't make it to basketball games. but they just want the game moved to their backyard

 

[Pyle]

Parking and accessibility is the biggest concern I hear from people I know. Not to mention there are lots that cost 25 to park for 3 hours.

It's a BS excuse. This is still a BB town and nothing more. Parking at skytop is seriously a non-issue. It takes me less time to take the shuttle and walk across the quad than it does to walk up from the old Harrison and parking garage lots. Unless you're parking in the prime West lots, then it's BS and nothing more.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Parking and accessibility is the biggest concern I hear from people I know. Not to mention there are lots that cost 25 to park for 3 hours.

actually it's not the case anymore, the lot we park in is $15, on Harrison St. and owned by SU. But if you haven't been to a game in a while I can understand that perception, especially because SU does nothing to let the casual fan know that there is reasonable and plenty of parking available.

EDIT: let me add, where you don't have to wait for the shuttle.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

:blah:

We get over 40k more than once a year. To the point where we actually average over 40k. The Dome is fine.

http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/inde...ite_national_trend_of_declining_attendan.html

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/index.ssf/2014/12/syracuse_football_sees_home_at.html

Are those tickets sold or butts in seats? There is a difference. Someone on here with real info in the past said that the actual 40+ attendance games were much less than reported by our attendance figures since McNabb left. If we are reporting 40k and only getting 38k that is 11k empty seats (20%).

Our avg's in the 2000s:

2014 40.5k
2013 38.3k
2012 37.9k
2011 40.5k
2010 40k
2009 39k
2008 33.5k
2007 35k
2006 37.3k
2005 40.3k
2004 37k
2003 41.1k
2002 42.2k
2001 41.1k
2000 43k

We haven't needed more than 40k since 2003. We haven't needed 44k since McNabb left. Getting to our 1999-2001 level of FB IMO is the most likely outcome for SU football. A 40k stadium wouldn't be too small.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

but it's not an issue for basketball when the weather is way worse. they're getting bigger crowds on weeknights when people are really pressed for time and all showing up at the same time

Because We win. Im telling you. IF this team won 15 games for say 3 years - that place would not get 15k people at any game.

 

[Millhouse]

Because We win. Im telling you. IF this team won 15 games for say 3 years - that place would not get 15k people at any game.

right - it doesn't have anything to do with parking - it has to do with being boring (or not boring in the case of basketball)

 

[Pyle]

Are those tickets sold or butts in seats? There is a difference. Someone on here with real info in the past said that the actual 40+ attendance games were much less than reported by our attendance figures since McNabb left. If we are reporting 40k and only getting 38k that is 11k empty seats (20%).

Our avg's in the 2000s:

2014 40.5k
2013 38.3k
2012 37.9k
2011 40.5k
2010 40k
2009 39k
2008 33.5k
2007 35k
2006 37.3k
2005 40.3k
2004 37k
2003 41.1k
2002 42.2k
2001 41.1k
2000 43k

We haven't needed more than 40k since 2003. We haven't needed 44k since McNabb left. Getting to our 1999-2001 level of FB IMO is the most likely outcome for SU football. A 40k stadium wouldn't be too small.

Let me get this straight. The announced crowd is 41k+ which means SU sold 41k+ tickets to the game but because actual attendance is only 39k you want SU to shrink the dome and lose the extra 1k in tickets sales?

 

[HeaterCuse22]

actually it's not the case anymore, the lot we park in is $15, on Harrison St. and owned by SU. But if you haven't been to a game in a while I can understand that perception, especially because SU does nothing to let the casual fan know that there is reasonable and plenty of parking available.

EDIT: let me add, where you don't have to wait for the shuttle.

I go to every game. $15.00 to park is still expensive. There are several lots near the hill charging $25.00 - There is free parking up near skytop - but not many want to shuttle (including me). I am just telling you people that I talk to in my group of people that I know. Say its too much of a pain in the ass.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

right - it doesn't have anything to do with parking - it has to do with being boring (or not boring in the case of basketball)

Im saying if we are winning people would fight through the minor things that they don't otherwise. Not sure that and boring are the same thing but hey.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

how many times a year does anyone want to go to the dome? 18 home basketball games last year.

those people don't want URI to be one of 24 yearly trips to the dome. they can just buy a great seat to the one or two worthy football games for way less than 245

who can fit that many games in their schedule. the only time i ever went to every game for any team was in the bills 90s heyday and i had no responsibilities or conflicts as a high school kid and even that got to be a bit much

basketball kills football and it's not the sport of basketball being better than football, it's just somewhat zero sum and going to a basketball is a way better bet (crowds, entertainment, etc)

I would think the opposite would be true. BBall has weekday games which are harder to get to. FB games are only 6-7 times a year and generally not during BBall season. If you are going to cut down on trips to the Dome it makes more sense to skip the 2nd BBall exhibition, the cupcakes after the home opener, and the bottom of the ACC games. Going to 19 BBall games over 118 days is a lot to ask a fan.

A level seat single game tickets are $160 each. So if you just go to 2 FB games you end up paying $320 > $245.

 

[Millhouse]

Im saying if we are winning people would fight through the minor things that they don't otherwise. Not sure that and boring are the same thing but hey.

winning boring isn't going to cut it. syracuse sports fans have the luxury of being pickier than that. also, it's really hard to win boring.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Let me get this straight. The announced crowd is 41k+ which means SU sold 41k+ tickets to the game but because actual attendance is only 39k you want SU to shrink the dome and lose the extra 1k in tickets sales?

You raise ticket prices by $2 a game and you end up making the same amount of money with 39k vs 41k.

 

[JeremyCuse]

It's a BS excuse. This is still a BB town and nothing more. Parking at skytop is seriously a non-issue. It takes me less time to take the shuttle and walk across the quad than it does to walk up from the old Harrison and parking garage lots. Unless you're parking in the prime West lots, then it's BS and nothing more.

While Parking at skytop isnt an issue for you trust me it is for a lot of other people. I dont agree with them but as HeaterCuse above noted its becoming a bigger and bigger gripe that we hear from people. SU would be wise as Kelly noted to advertise the fact that there are public parking options available near the dome.

 

[Macky44]

OK, that's all well and good, but the big building we have on the Quad at the moment seats 49.5K using aluminum benches, and if we ripped all them out and put in comfy seats we'd lose 5-6K seats by most accounts.

Hoops still draws 30K+ and they play in the same big building.

So I don't understand your point. If you want to slash football capacity to 40K, assuming you're not just putting up Tampa Bay Rays-style tarps, then you're also slashing seating for hoops, which actually still draws awesomely well.

Rip out the aluminum and fill the entire dome with Leather couches that have flat screens on the back. We will sell out every game.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

While Parking at skytop isnt an issue for you trust me it is for a lot of other people. I dont agree with them but as HeaterCuse above noted its becoming a bigger and bigger gripe that we hear from people. SU would be wise as Kelly noted to advertise the fact that there are public parking options available near the dome.

People in general just love to say well that's a stupid reason. Until they have their own stupid reason for not going. For instance. I am missing my sons soccer games three weeks in a row now for noon games so that I can come to watch. Is the casual fan doing that? I don't think so.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

My buddy was going to come to the game Saturday, but had a ticket to watch the Bills game Sunday and could only afford one game. He chose Bills.

 

[Macky44]

ive come to the conclusion that cnyers just dont like football, and i guess thats fine, its their choice.

its completely Fn weird and just hammers home how much of an odd part of the country it is up there, but whatever, its a free country.

if you like football, and you have the chance to go see a D1-P5 team play, then by all the Fn means you take the kids and go.

win or lose, you go.

its football.

its tailgating.

its a great way to spend time with your sons/daughters.

again, its football.

you go.

they dont want to.

ive for too long thought it was entitlement and demanding the product be top notch, the opponent be a name and ultimately to see a win, but i dont anymore.

granted that helps to get the guy who goes 1x, 2x or maybe even 3x to go more often, but if you just want see football, those things shouldnt matter.

cnyers, dont like football.

Wow...you have all the answers. Who doesn't love blanket statements about large populations of people?

 

[HeaterCuse22]

One of my other friends said he was going to go, but he was bringing his twin babies as his wife was working. But due to threat of rain and being up there by himself couldn't go.

 

[Macky44]

No, but the way I see it, there are far too many people who live reasonably close to the Dome (I do not) and chirp like they are fans, but don't go because "the team stinks."

In my career, I had someone once tell me about working for a company in flux: "you'll never regret being part of trying to turn something around and build from the bottom up." I agree and think that applies here.

You realize that people who live close to The Dome that aren't actually fans arent spending time complaining about the team right? Those people are not fans at all.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I go to every game. $15.00 to park is still expensive. There are several lots near the hill charging $25.00 - There is free parking up near skytop - but not many want to shuttle (including me). I am just telling you people that I talk to in my group of people that I know. Say its too much of a pain in the ass.

I should have clarified I wasn't directing my opinion towards you specifically but rather to the person that hasn't been to a game in a while. I don't think it helps that SU pushes the shuttle from Skytop as an option. I'm sure folks love the tailgate experience up there but no way would I want to rely on the shuttle to get me to and from a parking lot. I remember the days of Donovan McNabb and what a giant PITA it was waiting for the shuttle to get back to Skytop.