Saw a tweet that summed up the local fan base

[K Otto XLIV]

Didn't this program win 3 bowl games in the last 5 seasons? Granted they weren't New Years Day type games but it's not that bad.

The Dome pricepoints however need to reflect reality.

Also, FWIW, these games seem like they last forever...

The price points are really messed up for individual games. But they are cheap for season tickets, even in the A level. Assuming you have Basketball too, which I would think most people do. Do we really have many football only fans? Even if you are a basketball first guy and a casual football fan, those seats are cheap.

 

[Macky44]

Is it a healthy appetite for SU football or an appetite for seeing FSU, Clemson, WV play?

The problem is you can never rely on casual fans or other team's fans to fill your stadium. There is no point in having nearly 50k capacity to satisfy one game a year at 45k. If we are getting 35k for five games and 45k for one game, why have a stadium that big? Also casual fans don't deserve the freedom to always have a seat at the table. If they know they don't need to buy a ticket package for the year's big game, they will just get a single game ticket or find a cheap ticket on secondary market. The consumer has all the purchasing power when it comes to SU football. That has to change.

IMO SU needs to find out how many passionate fans it has between the Buffalo-Watertown-Albany-Binghamton circumference (easy drives). If that number really is only 20k (or less) then we need to drastically reduce the capacity. You cannot expect casual fans to fill 60% of your stadium. If that number is 30k then SU needs to slightly reduce capacity and do a better job of getting its passionate fans to attend games. Then SU can work on turning the casual fans into passionate fans. Followed by trying to create casual fans from the remaining population pool.

My concern with our fanbase is that either 1. we do not have enough passionate fans or 2. we are getting less than 90% of our passionate fans to show up to games. If we have 30k passionate fans and are only getting 25k to show up then something is wrong and SU needs to fix it. If your die hards aren't showing up, then you have little chance at getting the casuals in the door.

I hope SU is studying this but I fear they are not. Colleges are not professional teams where they have large staffs to handle these things. Which is why a lot of this gets outsourced. But when you outsource you have to rely on someone who is out of the know to your situation.

I wonder what the optimal capacity is for our program. If we have 30k die hards do we need a new 44k stadium/renovation? Can we really expect 30% of attendance to come from casual fans? People can say winning cures all. That is true but how likely is it that SU will be a consistent 9 W team? Because that is what it will take IMO to average 44k. Realistically I think 9 win seasons will be a 1 in 10 year type of thing. College football is too competitive, SU has too many restraints, and good coaches rarely stay at one spot. IMO 8-5 seasons every year won't bring more than 40k per game (outside of the one name team we play every year). On top of this we have HD TV and every game available to watch. These things didn't exist in the past. Which is why everyone is struggling with attendance.

I rather see SU got to 40k and sell out every game than go to 44k and sell out 1 game a year. Having a sell out streak can create pride in the fanbase and can be used to sell recruits. IMO it is worth it to lose those 5k than you would get for one game a year. It also prevents LSU, Clemson, VA Tech, etc fans from having a large amount of people in the Dome.

I actually think a 44k seat stadium would be perfect. For symbolic reasons, and for appearance on tv.

 

[Macky44]

All I know is this. Ninety-Nine bucks for season tickets for seven games in seat locations that would be considered good seats in many high level Div 1 stadiums is one of the best deals I know of.

CORRECT...and those are not the seats that are empty. It is the seats between the 20s.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

I actually think a 44k seat stadium would be perfect. For symbolic reasons, and for appearance on tv.

How many times have we had that many actual people inside the Dome in the 2000s? You can probably count it using only your fingers.

 

[Macky44]

Logically, a 40k stadium that is as close to the field would be perfect. You have to admit that 44k sounds better though. Everything on the Hill should have a 44 reference to it. haha

 

[orange_in_VA]

Logically, a 40k stadium that is as close to the field would be perfect. You have to admit that 44k sounds better though. Everything on the Hill should have a 44 reference to it. haha

I agree, I'm down with the 44k seats if they can manage to fit that many when the renovations come.

 

[Millhouse]

The price points are really messed up for individual games. But they are cheap for season tickets, even in the A level. Assuming you have Basketball too, which I would think most people do. Do we really have many football only fans? Even if you are a basketball first guy and a casual football fan, those seats are cheap.

it's not the price it's the time involved with going to the dome 30 times a year

 

[Millhouse]

Logically, a 40k stadium that is as close to the field would be perfect. You have to admit that 44k sounds better though. Everything on the Hill should have a 44 reference to it. haha

make it 40k seats, call it 44k. have 4 thousand invisible people in the dome when it's empty

 

[Macky44]

I agree, I'm down with the 44k seats if they can manage to fit that many when the renovations come.

Take the 5k seats out somehow and replace it with some kind of memorial or something. There has to be a way to make something visually attractive for TV that can grab people's attention and make recruits take note.

 

[orangenirvana]

Is it though? Even when considering the size of the population nearby? For what it's worth, as many others have eluded to, I agree that since the product has been so poor for well over a decade, people just don't want to associate themselves with such a negative reality. People want to feel good about things they invest their valuable time and interests in. If they don't attach themselves, they won't emotionally expose themselves to the disappointment and feeling that consistent losing breeds. If they're winning, the parking, etc. excuses would be nuisances for sure, but, imo, wouldn't keep people from not showing up...at least to a respectable level. The private school argument doesn't seem to have a negative impact on 'Cuse hoops...if the dome court was set up at midfield, they'd draw more folks for hoops than football for the biggest games...

It is big, imo. It is much more difficult to generate allegiance and support from a region for a private school than a state school. Not to mention state schools have significantly more alums.

And I don't think it's fair to point to the basketball attendance. SU basketball is such a rarity in that it has been so consistently good for so long that of course it's going to attract way more people than a normal college basketball program. We're talking 40 straight years of building a national fanbase where people only know winning. Almost every game is an "event" where casuals will come out in droves.

 

[Cuseregular]

How do people hold a grudge for that long?

One issue is that every time we get a big crowd the team seems to s**** the bed.

I think we'll see a little better crowd against CMU and them hopefully45,000+ against LSU. If the team makes a good showing and gives the fans something to cheer for, then a lot of people might come back for Pitt. Especially if we can win one or both of USF and Virginia.

I agree but people hold grudges for 50 years and, sad to say, that one is alive and well (I'll make a post on this later).

 

[K Otto XLIV]

It is big, imo. It is much more difficult to generate allegiance and support from a region for a private school than a state school. Not to mention state schools have significantly more alums.

And I don't think it's fair to point to the basketball attendance. SU basketball is such a rarity in that it has been so consistently good for so long that of course it's going to attract way more people than a normal college basketball program. We're talking 40 straight years of building a national fanbase where people only know winning. Almost every game is an "event" where casuals will come out in droves.

Normally it is difficult. But we have the unique situation of being the only school that plays football in NY State. The alumni thing is an issue. But if you asked most people in NY State who their favorite football team is, a large amount would say SU. There are SU football fans all over the state. I don't think the pool of fans is the problem. The issue is the product and the lack of passion.

 

[orange_in_VA]

It is big, imo. It is much more difficult to generate allegiance and support from a region for a private school than a state school. Not to mention state schools have significantly more alums.

And I don't think it's fair to point to the basketball attendance. SU basketball is such a rarity in that it has been so consistently good for so long that of course it's going to attract way more people than a normal college basketball program. We're talking 40 straight years of building a national fanbase where people only know winning. Almost every game is an "event" where casuals will come out in droves.

Just wanted to say that not all state schools have "significantly" more alums. My example earlier, KU only enrolls about 4k more students than Cuse.

 

[Macky44]

Normally it is difficult. But we have the unique situation of being the only school that plays football in NY State. The alumni thing is an issue. But if you asked most people in NY State who their favorite football team is, a large amount would say SU. There are SU football fans all over the state. I don't think the pool of fans is the problem. The issue is the product and the lack of passion.

UB and Army don't agree with you...but we get the point.

 

[Scooch]

Is it a healthy appetite for SU football or an appetite for seeing FSU, Clemson, WV play?

The problem is you can never rely on casual fans or other team's fans to fill your stadium. There is no point in having nearly 50k capacity to satisfy one game a year at 45k. If we are getting 35k for five games and 45k for one game, why have a stadium that big? Also casual fans don't deserve the freedom to always have a seat at the table. If they know they don't need to buy a ticket package for the year's big game, they will just get a single game ticket or find a cheap ticket on secondary market. The consumer has all the purchasing power when it comes to SU football. That has to change.

IMO SU needs to find out how many passionate fans it has between the Buffalo-Watertown-Albany-Binghamton circumference (easy drives). If that number really is only 20k (or less) then we need to drastically reduce the capacity. You cannot expect casual fans to fill 60% of your stadium. If that number is 30k then SU needs to slightly reduce capacity and do a better job of getting its passionate fans to attend games. Then SU can work on turning the casual fans into passionate fans. Followed by trying to create casual fans from the remaining population pool.

My concern with our fanbase is that either 1. we do not have enough passionate fans or 2. we are getting less than 90% of our passionate fans to show up to games. If we have 30k passionate fans and are only getting 25k to show up then something is wrong and SU needs to fix it. If your die hards aren't showing up, then you have little chance at getting the casuals in the door.

I hope SU is studying this but I fear they are not. Colleges are not professional teams where they have large staffs to handle these things. Which is why a lot of this gets outsourced. But when you outsource you have to rely on someone who is out of the know to your situation.

I wonder what the optimal capacity is for our program. If we have 30k die hards do we need a new 44k stadium/renovation? Can we really expect 30% of attendance to come from casual fans? People can say winning cures all. That is true but how likely is it that SU will be a consistent 9 W team? Because that is what it will take IMO to average 44k. Realistically I think 9 win seasons will be a 1 in 10 year type of thing. College football is too competitive, SU has too many restraints, and good coaches rarely stay at one spot. IMO 8-5 seasons every year won't bring more than 40k per game (outside of the one name team we play every year). On top of this we have HD TV and every game available to watch. These things didn't exist in the past. Which is why everyone is struggling with attendance.

I rather see SU got to 40k and sell out every game than go to 44k and sell out 1 game a year. Having a sell out streak can create pride in the fanbase and can be used to sell recruits. IMO it is worth it to lose those 5k than you would get for one game a year. It also prevents LSU, Clemson, VA Tech, etc fans from having a large amount of people in the Dome.

I've said for years that we built the Dome a bit too big.

I'm all for replacing the benches with seats and bringing capacity down to 44K. Given past attendance when we were good, that seems to be the right amount. If the Dome renovation opens up some wide concourses, etc. then they could always sell SRO for big games and get another couple thousand people in.

I think 40K is a bit much, we need to assume this program can get back to a 90's-ish level. I mean if not, then might as well make it 30K.

 

[Millhouse]

I've said for years that we built the Dome a bit too big.

I'm all for replacing the benches with seats and bringing capacity down to 44K. Given past attendance when we were good, that seems to be the right amount. If the Dome renovation opens up some wide concourses, etc. then they could always sell SRO for big games and get another couple thousand people in.

I think 40K is a bit much, we need to assume this program can get back to a 90's-ish level. I mean if not, then might as well make it 30K.

hopefully this remodel or whatever it is they're doing will mean they can configure basketball to have the same capacity despite the seats being wider. do it all in one fell swoop.

 

[orange_in_VA]

I've said for years that we built the Dome a bit too big.

I'm all for replacing the benches with seats and bringing capacity down to 44K. Given past attendance when we were good, that seems to be the right amount. If the Dome renovation opens up some wide concourses, etc. then they could always sell SRO for big games and get another couple thousand people in.

I think 40K is a bit much, we need to assume this program can get back to a 90's-ish level. I mean if not, then might as well make it 30K.

Historically, the 90s was the only time in our history where we would have needed more than 44k seats. With the prominence of HDTV enhancing the home viewing experience, I think 44k would be fine even if we do get that good again.

Only 12 seasons in our history we averaged over 44k. All between 1984 and 1998.

I just realized that all of our 12 seasons with high attendance happened in a 14 year period. What a run.

 

[orange_in_VA]

hopefully this remodel or whatever it is they're doing will mean they can configure basketball to have the same capacity despite the seats being wider. do it all in one fell swoop.

I'm for this idea. Would be crazy to get a setup in the Dome where bball could fit 40k+

 

[snowycuse]

Impact of the TV era on an also-ran program. The experience at home for the majority of us casual fans simply trumps the hassle of getting to a stadium with lackluster tail gate options and paying a decent chunck of change to sit between the 20's where most fans want to sit and are accustomed to viewing a game (TV). $99 is great value but I'm not giving up my TV for end zone sight lines and if you combat this by blacking out the game most are now savy enough to stream it. Its great the university gives discounts to students but those are short term customers...what about the teens and kids in the community that will actually make up your core fan base in the future? Alumni are donors while area youth are the butts in seats in the future. I grew up in the "get a life" era and we did but you can start anew with the next group.

 

[Cusefan0307]

it's not the price it's the time involved with going to the dome 30 times a year

I go to most basketball games, most football, and now I've started to go to some soccer games as well as that program has become better. I'm probably on the hill 30 times a year for a sporting event, but I only live 3 miles away so it is very easy for me.

I've struggled going to football games because the product wasn't very entertaining. I can give you more than 10 instances going back to about 2006 where I have left the dome because the game was terrible and it wasn't fun to see us get blasted. A couple of years when we were really bad (grob's last year and possibly Coach P's ) I got season tickets and went to two games. It became to frustrating to watch. People are still skeptical at 2-0.

Football attendance (Pro and College) has been trending down for years, because it is the ultimate TV sport. The dome was built during a time where attendance was needed to produce revenue for the school. Now most revenue is TV based.

A remodel will help attendance greatly IMO, as will a better team, but that's not all. The university needs to find a way to make each Saturday an event on the Hill. Make it fun!!! I know the current administrations is scared to become "too big of a party school", but if you turn the game into a party/event people will come.

 

[Millhouse]

I go to most basketball games, most football, and now I've started to go to some soccer games as well as that program has become better. I'm probably on the hill 30 times a year for a sporting event, but I only live 3 miles away so it is very easy for me.

I've struggled going to football games because the product wasn't very entertaining. I can give you more than 10 instances going back to about 2006 where I have left the dome because the game was terrible and it wasn't fun to see us get blasted. A couple of years when we were really bad (grob's last year and possibly Coach P's ) I got season tickets and went to two games. It became to frustrating to watch. People are still skeptical at 2-0.

Football attendance (Pro and College) has been trending down for years, because it is the ultimate TV sport. The dome was built during a time where attendance was needed to produce revenue for the school. Now most revenue is TV based.

A remodel will help attendance greatly IMO, as will a better team, but that's not all. The university needs to find a way to make each Saturday an event on the Hill. Make it fun!!! I know the current administrations is scared to become "too big of a party school", but if you turn the game into a party/event people will come.

i've left so many games early. it feels like a chore so often.

 

[Briancuse]

All I know is this. Ninety-Nine bucks for season tickets for seven games in seat locations that would be considered good seats in many high level Div 1 stadiums is one of the best deals I know of.

For season tickets its a pretty good deal, but you have to throw in all of the extra expenses. Parking, Food, Gas money to get to the dome, etc. For someone with a fixed income it can get pricey.

 

[TheCusian]

make it 40k seats, call it 44k. have 4 thousand invisible people in the dome when it's empty

Yeah but how many of those invisible people sell their tickets on stub hub to imaginary friends? No-win situation

 

[K Otto XLIV]

I've said for years that we built the Dome a bit too big.

I'm all for replacing the benches with seats and bringing capacity down to 44K. Given past attendance when we were good, that seems to be the right amount. If the Dome renovation opens up some wide concourses, etc. then they could always sell SRO for big games and get another couple thousand people in.

I think 40K is a bit much, we need to assume this program can get back to a 90's-ish level. I mean if not, then might as well make it 30K.

I think assuming we can get back to 90s level is unrealistic. Look at the differences in today's game:

-recruiting is no longer regional it is national. We can't rely on kids choosing between only PSU and us.

-everyone recruits Florida now. We were ahead of the curve at the time.

-UConn joined FBS and Temple is making an effort not to suck. That makes it harder to have depth.

-RU is no longer a joke and has joined the B1G. Making it harder to recruit.

-Pitt no longer sucks. Again harder to recruit.

-MD seems to be more invested in FB and is in the B1G. Again recruiting.

-the is no Big East, the new Northeast conference is the B1G (PSU, MD, RU). We are in a Southern conference.

-we only play BC and Pitt from the Northeast. Again hurts recruiting.

-the ACC top to bottom is better than the Big East was.

-recruits want bling. SU cannot win the arms race.

-few teams recruited athletic QBs. Which made it easier for SU to get commitments.

-our brand has taken a major hit in the 2000s. These kids we are recruiting only know McNabb as that bozo on FS1.

-SU cannot afford to pay for top notch staffs. Coaching salaries have gotten out of hand.

I think SU can be a Top 20-40 type of program again. That would be getting back to the 1999-2001 level. Those 3 years we were ranked as high as:

1999 16th
2000 None
2001 14th

I think that is realistic for our program. I also think that will not get more than 40k per game. I would love for SU to get to the 1987-1998 run again. If we did then we would sell out 44k every year. But realistically the chances of that happening are very slim.

 

[Jasoncuse]

What's the current leave status in the area right now? Too early for that excuse?