Seth Greenberg Boosts JB

[VaBeachOrFan]

. . . on Mike & Mike this morning. Says: "Jim Boeheim isn't a good game coach, he's a great game coach."

Later on, M&M got to discussing whether the SU-UNC game is the NCAA's worst public relations nightmare in terms of featuring two schools suffering or facing punishment for past transgressions. Golic lumps them both together, but Seth points out that UNC's problem is a system problem -- 12-13 years of fraudulent classes -- while Syracuse's punishment was for "lack of oversight," implying that the NCAA's punishment was way overboard for the magnitude of the "crime."

I'm agreeing that it's comparing Mandarin oranges (small) with Wenatchee apples (y-u-g-e), but that's assuming I fully understand the SU violations, which I don't at this distance. If it is indeed a case of JB's not being aware that someone wrote a plagerized footnote to one of Melo's term papers plus a couple of student-athletes were getting paid for YMCA work, then it is indeed a minimal transgression compared with UNC's alleged entrenched deception. Not sure the full specifics of SU's "crime" have been revealed, but please enlighten me if they amount to more than that.

And, of course, the current kids on either squad DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG, so no shame goes to them. Anyway, thanks, Seth, for injecting some perspective on the upcoming "Fraud Bowl" game.-VBOF

 

[jsshap]

. . . on Mike & Mike this morning. Says: "Jim Boeheim isn't a good game coach, he's a great game coach."

Later on, M&M got to discussing whether the SU-UNC game is the NCAA's worst public relations nightmare in terms of featuring two schools suffering or facing punishment for past transgressions. Golic lumps them both together, but Seth points out that UNC's problem is a system problem -- 12-13 years of fraudulent classes -- while Syracuse's punishment was for "lack of oversight," implying that the NCAA's punishment was way overboard for the magnitude of the "crime."

I'm agreeing that it's comparing Mandarin oranges (small) with Wenatchee apples (y-u-g-e), but that's assuming I fully understand the SU violations, which I don't at this distance. If it is indeed a case of JB's not being aware that someone wrote a plagerized footnote to one of Melo's term papers plus a couple of student-athletes were getting paid for YMCA work, then it is indeed a minimal transgression compared with UNC's alleged entrenched deception. Not sure the full specifics of SU's "crime" have been revealed, but please enlighten me if they amount to more than that.

And, of course, the current kids on either squad DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG, so no shame goes to them. Anyway, thanks, Seth, for injecting some perspective on the upcoming "Fraud Bowl" game.-VBOF

Here is another perspective:
http://www.offtackleempire.com/2016/3/28/11317956/roy-williams-and-the-unc-tarheels-can-go-to-hell-cheating-fraud-ncaa-violations-investigation

 

[sabach]

. . . on Mike & Mike this morning. Says: "Jim Boeheim isn't a good game coach, he's a great game coach."

Later on, M&M got to discussing whether the SU-UNC game is the NCAA's worst public relations nightmare in terms of featuring two schools suffering or facing punishment for past transgressions. Golic lumps them both together, but Seth points out that UNC's problem is a system problem -- 12-13 years of fraudulent classes -- while Syracuse's punishment was for "lack of oversight," implying that the NCAA's punishment was way overboard for the magnitude of the "crime."

I'm agreeing that it's comparing Mandarin oranges (small) with Wenatchee apples (y-u-g-e), but that's assuming I fully understand the SU violations, which I don't at this distance. If it is indeed a case of JB's not being aware that someone wrote a plagerized footnote to one of Melo's term papers plus a couple of student-athletes were getting paid for YMCA work, then it is indeed a minimal transgression compared with UNC's alleged entrenched deception. Not sure the full specifics of SU's "crime" have been revealed, but please enlighten me if they amount to more than that.

And, of course, the current kids on either squad DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG, so no shame goes to them. Anyway, thanks, Seth, for injecting some perspective on the upcoming "Fraud Bowl" game.-VBOF

The only other thing SU was accused of doing was playing guys who smoked weed because our school policy required them not to when SU was not required to have a policy in the first place. That's it. Eight years - and that's it. I remember when "he who will not be named" was suspended for the NCAAT, some hack said that you could throw a dart at the NCAA rule book and hit a violation from SU. Talk about an overstatement. We barely violated three rules.

 

[TheCusian]

. . . on Mike & Mike this morning. Says: "Jim Boeheim isn't a good game coach, he's a great game coach." Later on, M&M got to discussing whether the SU-UNC game is the NCAA's worst public relations nightmare in terms of featuring two schools suffering or facing punishment for past transgressions. Golic lumps them both together, but Seth points out that UNC's problem is a system problem -- 12-13 years of fraudulent classes -- while Syracuse's punishment was for "lack of oversight," implying that the NCAA's punishment was way overboard for the magnitude of the "crime." I'm agreeing that it's comparing Mandarin oranges (small) with Wenatchee apples (y-u-g-e), but that's assuming I fully understand the SU violations, which I don't at this distance. If it is indeed a case of JB's not being aware that someone wrote a plagerized footnote to one of Melo's term papers plus a couple of student-athletes were getting paid for YMCA work, then it is indeed a minimal transgression compared with UNC's alleged entrenched deception. Not sure the full specifics of SU's "crime" have been revealed, but please enlighten me if they amount to more than that. And, of course, the current kids on either squad DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG, so no shame goes to them. Anyway, thanks, Seth, for injecting some perspective on the upcoming "Fraud Bowl" game.-VBOF

The fact that we get lumped in with Louisville and UNC is really, really bad reporting.

When people do that I think they are lumping Fine + infractions into the equation - which is really, really bad reporting.

One person fixing a footnote vs systemic, sanctioned, academic cheating.

2 players getting paid $12 an hour by a YMCA employee off campus vs multiple parties with prostitutes that was sanctioned by an staff member on campus.

 

[CusefanATL]

The only other thing SU was accused of doing was playing guys who smoked weed because our school policy required them not to when SU was not required to have a policy in the first place. That's it. Eight years - and that's it. I remember when "he who will not be named" was suspended for the NCAAT, some hack said that you could throw a dart at the NCAA rule book and hit a violation from SU. Talk about an overstatement. We barely violated three rules.

well, there was more than that.

Fab's paper and the Y issue. All pretty minor stuff - but we deserve A PUNISHMENT, but certainly not THE PUNISHMENT we got

 

[NineOneSeven]

The fact that we get lumped in with Louisville and UNC is really, really bad reporting.

When people do that I think they are lumping Fine + infractions into the equation - which is really, really bad reporting.

One person fixing a footnote vs systemic, sanctioned, academic cheating.

2 players getting paid $12 an hour by a YMCA employee off campus vs multiple parties with prostitutes that was sanctioned by an staff member on campus.

The best part is Louisville fans have called our violations much worse than what they are going through. Obviously each fanbase has bias, but that was great. Granted, even I do not know fully what we/unc/louisville did (does anyone though for sure?).

 

[DownTheField]

I can't believe how many articles and message board posts I've seen that talk about SU's academic fraud over a decade. More like we were investigated for almost a decade and all they found was one Fab Melo paper that had like a page or two corrected by a tutor.

Considering the length of the investigation and what they found, I think the NCAA should have awarded SU extra scholarships. I would love to see what came out if every other basketball program was put under the same microscope.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

. . . on Mike & Mike this morning. Says: "Jim Boeheim isn't a good game coach, he's a great game coach."

Later on, M&M got to discussing whether the SU-UNC game is the NCAA's worst public relations nightmare in terms of featuring two schools suffering or facing punishment for past transgressions. Golic lumps them both together, but Seth points out that UNC's problem is a system problem -- 12-13 years of fraudulent classes -- while Syracuse's punishment was for "lack of oversight," implying that the NCAA's punishment was way overboard for the magnitude of the "crime."

I'm agreeing that it's comparing Mandarin oranges (small) with Wenatchee apples (y-u-g-e), but that's assuming I fully understand the SU violations, which I don't at this distance. If it is indeed a case of JB's not being aware that someone wrote a plagerized footnote to one of Melo's term papers plus a couple of student-athletes were getting paid for YMCA work, then it is indeed a minimal transgression compared with UNC's alleged entrenched deception. Not sure the full specifics of SU's "crime" have been revealed, but please enlighten me if they amount to more than that.

And, of course, the current kids on either squad DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG, so no shame goes to them. Anyway, thanks, Seth, for injecting some perspective on the upcoming "Fraud Bowl" game.-VBOF

I don't know the details of our offenses either, but I have heard that the academics could indeed refer to one paper where a tutor added footnotes, rather than wrote the whole paper for Fab. In which case, the proper fruit comparison to UNC's alleged infractions would be a kumquat to a state fair prize winning oversized watermelon. Particularly since SU suspended Fab TWICE for the academic infraction, years before the NCAA's sanctions were finally imposed.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Oh but also - WE HAVE PAID OUR PUNISHMENT and continue to do so. We have 9 scholarship players. So why are we still being talked about as if we got away with something. Everyone on this team (outside the frosh) had a post season taken away from already. To come back from that and make a final four should be such a feel good story for those kids that didn't do anything wrong (G and Trev in particular), but no... So in summary -U everyone out there.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I don't know the details of our offenses either, but I have heard that the academics could indeed refer to one paper where a tutor added footnotes, rather than wrote the whole paper for Fab. In which case, the proper fruit comparison to UNC's alleged infractions would be a kumquat to a state fair prize winning oversized watermelon. Particularly since SU suspended Fab TWICE for the academic infraction, years before the NCAA's sanctions were finally imposed.

They added a citation because the deadline was minutes away and it got kicked back for need of a citation. The kicker: as I understand it, the paper was essentially an autobiography.

And this mantra of "cheating" kills me. If we were trying to cheat, why did we sit him? We could have won the damn Natty with that team.

 

[jordoo]

I can't believe how many articles and message board posts I've seen that talk about SU's academic fraud over a decade. More like we were investigated for almost a decade and all they found was one Fab Melo paper that had like a page or two corrected by a tutor.

Yes they tried super hard for a very long time and that was all they could come up with. Pretty impressive on SU's part.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

The fact that we get lumped in with Louisville and UNC is really, really bad reporting.

When people do that I think they are lumping Fine + infractions into the equation - which is really, really bad reporting.

One person fixing a footnote vs systemic, sanctioned, academic cheating.

2 players getting paid $12 an hour by a YMCA employee off campus vs multiple parties with prostitutes that was sanctioned by an staff member on campus.

AND Bernie Fine was never criminally charged with anything, so neither his potential guilt nor potential INNOCENCE will ever be known. But he has certainly paid a price in that he lost his coaching job and his (forgive me) fine reputation.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Oh and another thing: This whole bullspit idea that Syracuse pulled a fast one on the NCAA by self banning last year because "we weren't going to make the tournament anyway" should be pretty much totally dispelled at this point. That team, when the ban was announced, had a very similar profile/resume as this team. In other words - it wouldn't have taken a miracle for that team to get in with something like a 10 or 11 seed, especially with an ACCT to help get a win or two. This season has shown that for all we know, we gave up a Final Four with that self ban. JB is absolutely en fuego in the tournament over the last 5 or 6 years and if he gets in, there is absolutely every chance to think they can advance. So I say again -U world.

 

[midloviking]

Someone needs to create a concise infographic of the Cuse violations/punishment that we can link to. Sports radio hosts are out of their minds talking about recruiting violations, the university paying players, systematic cheating and out of control drug use. They make Syracuse sound worse the UNC & Louisville.

 

[LAOrange]

There was an entire board dedicated to the NCAA when it was being revealed. I say let's forget it for now; but... when UNC gets about the same or lesser punishment than SU, file a class-action lawsuit for defamation against the NCAA on behalf of the fans. Honestly, I don't understand why the University doesn't. Basketball is a major source of revenue. SU lost the attendance crown this year. They lost post-season revenue sharing last year. Both of those were a direct result of losing and losing was a direct result of the sanctions.

 

[Ozcuse]

I'm as big an SU homer as they come but are you guys completely forgetting the Daryl Gross's "Dream Team" pressure put on the professor to change a grade to make Fab Melo eligible and then the subsequent cover up? For those who quickly forgot.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangesport...far_did_school_go_keep_fab_melo_eligible.html

I don't think Jim Boeheim should have been punished harshly for what some AD staff performed and it seemed that those with direct involvement were dealt with (after the fact). Still, if you get caught you need to be punished.

Bottom line, every major school does it but when the NCAA is looking through your underwear drawer for 10 years, make sure they are clean before putting them away.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Someone needs to create a concise infographic of the Cuse violations/punishment that we can link to. Sports radio hosts are out of their minds talking about recruiting violations, the university paying players, systematic cheating and out of control drug use. They make Syracuse sound worse the UNC & Louisville.

I like this idea. Especially considering how medieval JB will turn if he is asked incessantly about this leading up to the game. He could simply refer to the infographic and give an iconic snarl.

But I do expect the NCAA to really sanitize those pressers, considering it should only be their already tainted reputation that is being called into question with all of this. This event is their crown jewel/cash cow, so I am sure they are out to protect the asset this week. And they will do so under the guise of protecting it's "Member schools." them.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Fab Melo cleared by the NCAA after his first suspension?

It's amazing how ignorant and stupid so many people have looked trying to point out why Syracuse should be hated. The constant "cheating pays" or "they are the biggest cheaters", blah blah blah is just so asinine. If you look at any comments on any Syracuse related article this week, you'll see uneducated morons making comment after comment. It's pretty hilarious that these people have no clue what they are talking about.

But again, let's just win the whole damn thing!

 

[longislandcuse]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Fab Melo cleared by the NCAA after his first suspension?

It's amazing how ignorant and stupid so many people have looked trying to point out why Syracuse should be hated. The constant "cheating pays" or "they are the biggest cheaters", blah blah blah is just so asinine. If you look at any comments on any Syracuse related article this week, you'll see uneducated morons making comment after comment. It's pretty hilarious that these people have no clue what they are talking about.

But again, let's just win the whole damn thing!

A lot of those commenters are Kentucky fans. No clue where they feel they've attained some kind of moral high ground to attack us over some minor infractions, which we've paid an absurd price for already. Maybe they're just bearing down for when they inevitably face sanctions once Calipari goes to the NBA. Maybe they're just angry rednecks in a state that literally no one cares about.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Just to be clear on the YMCA paying players:

1) The football team had more players being paid for working the scoreboard at the YMCA, than the basketball team did. They suffered none of the consequences, so the majority of the punishment comes from the other two infractions.

2) Drug policy. SU enforced a drug policy that the NCAA does not require. Regardless, we had the drug policy and in a couple of cases, didn't follow it. Left us open for criticism, and infractions. I believe SU self-reported this stuff, which usually gives some leniency from the NCAA. Someone correct me if I'm wrong there.

3) Academic misconduct. The most serious charge, and on the face of it only applies to Fab Melo. It was dirty business, and one that should have never happened.

The NCAA noodled around at SU for a long time looking for infractions. This came on the heels of the Bernie Fine mess. The interesting thing about the Fine case is four people came forward saying he molested them, and later three said they were lying, including one of the guys that sued Boeheim.

The main guy in that case was trying to extort money from Bernie, but we don't know if he had motivation for that, or if he concocted this story because he was p!ssed Bernie cut him off. It seems strange to me that a pedophile only ever abused one child, as child molesters tend to be repeat offenders. Believe me, the Post Standard, ESPN, etc... dug deep to try and find others who would talk about Bernie. Who knows what the case is, but it was the Fine stuff that led in part to the NCAA snooping around.

They found some things, as they would at any D-1 college if given that long to find stuff. To any team's fans who bitch about SU and the "cheaters" that we are, I just ask -- "what do you think the NCAA would find if it spent nearly a decade sifting through your athletic department?" No athletic department would be safe from that -- but it doesn't happen in most cases. The Bernie Fine and the self reporting led to this. Fans and radio jocks being holier than thou is par for the course. It's what they do, to sound like the moral authority. It's BS, but it is what it is.

 

[Jasoncuse]

A lot of those commenters are Kentucky fans. No clue where they feel they've attained some kind of moral high ground to attack us over some minor infractions, which we've paid an absurd price for already. Maybe they're just bearing down for when they inevitably face sanctions once Calipari goes to the NBA. Maybe they're just angry rednecks in a state that literally no one cares about.

The day Calipari takes another job will be the day UK fans finally come to grips with what's coming. Everybody knows it's coming. Maybe Drake will get them another infraction, too?

Of all the fanbases out there, for UK fans to be up in arms over other schools minor infractions is hilarious.

 

[SU94]

I can't believe how many articles and message board posts I've seen that talk about SU's academic fraud over a decade. More like we were investigated for almost a decade and all they found was one Fab Melo paper that had like a page or two corrected by a tutor.

Considering the length of the investigation and what they found, I think the NCAA should have awarded SU extra scholarships. I would love to see what came out if every other basketball program was put under the same microscope.

I cannot agree with this enough. I said this last year and I believe it today, I am legitimately proud of our institution's "showing" during a near decade-long investigation. A decade. As in 120 months or about 3650 days!

I think when it all comes out of the wash, our transgressions were footnote(s) were added to a single Fab paper, 5 athletes were paid the equivalent of $1.83 per day, we did not contact players parent who smoked weed, and a basketball player was given a free 6-mile ride back to campus from a community appearance. I believe all of this was self-reported to the NCAA. The Ath Dept's meeting (sans JAB) to try to keep Fab eligible was also pushing it, but I am not sure if this is actually illegal per NCAAA guidelines.

We should have been punished. We got hammered. Yet Syracuse hoops and Jim Boeheim are somehow morally bankrupt?

 

[DownTheField]

The day Calipari takes another job will be the day UK fans finally come to grips with what's coming. Everybody knows it's coming. Maybe Drake will get them another infraction, too?

Of all the fanbases out there, for UK fans to be up in arms over other schools minor infractions is hilarious.

Didn't a UK player tell Wes Johnson that they were given (untraceable) prepaid credit cards for spending money? It was something like that. The player was shocked that SU players didn't have anything like that.

 

[SU94]

Just to be clear on the YMCA paying players:

1) The football team had more players being paid for working the scoreboard at the YMCA, than the basketball team did. They suffered none of the consequences, so the majority of the punishment comes from the other two infractions.

2) Drug policy. SU enforced a drug policy that the NCAA does not require. Regardless, we had the drug policy and in a couple of cases, didn't follow it. Left us open for criticism, and infractions. I believe SU self-reported this stuff, which usually gives some leniency from the NCAA. Someone correct me if I'm wrong there.

3) Academic misconduct. The most serious charge, and on the face of it only applies to Fab Melo. It was dirty business, and one that should have never happened.

The NCAA noodled around at SU for a long time looking for infractions. This came on the heels of the Bernie Fine mess. The interesting thing about the Fine case is four people came forward saying he molested them, and later three said they were lying, including one of the guys that sued Boeheim.

The main guy in that case was trying to extort money from Bernie, but we don't know if he had motivation for that, or if he concocted this story because he was p!ssed Bernie cut him off. It seems strange to me that a pedophile only ever abused one child, as child molesters tend to be repeat offenders. Believe me, the Post Standard, ESPN, etc... dug deep to try and find others who would talk about Bernie. Who knows what the case is, but it was the Fine stuff that led in part to the NCAA snooping around.

They found some things, as they would at any D-1 college if given that long to find stuff. To any team's fans who bitch about SU and the "cheaters" that we are, I just ask -- "what do you think the NCAA would find if it spent nearly a decade sifting through your athletic department?" No athletic department would be safe from that -- but it doesn't happen in most cases. The Bernie Fine and the self reporting led to this. Fans and radio jocks being holier than thou is par for the course. It's what they do, to sound like the moral authority. It's BS, but it is what it is.

Lastly, was there any moral outrage 3 months ago when Notre Dame played in the Fiesta Bowl. How about last year when they played in the Music City Bowl? I mean in 2014, they too withstood a academic scandal involving 4 football players that rocked their Honor Code. Where were the moral media police. There were none. This venom toward SU is unfortunately about one thing, make that one person...Jim Boeheim.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I think Southerland was under suspicion for academic stuff as well. I'm certain that there were quite a few violations that the NCAA sniffed out over ten years that they couldn't prove outright, but still led to the harsh nature of the penalties.

That said, Villanova and Oklahoma aren't exactly paragons of amateur athletic virtue. Somehow nothing ever came of that Duke player buying $100k in jewelry. Nope, no evidence. Case closed. Amazing, just amazing. God bless America.