Class of 2018 SG/SF Buddy Boeheim SIGNED WITH SYRACUSE

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RF2044

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Why doesn’t he need one? There are a lot of people in college on athletic teams that don’t need to be on scholarship. Having the funds shouldn’t preclude anyone from getting a scholarship. I’ve known families who have money, but won’t put any money towards their children’s education. Buddy doesn’t have the funds, his dad does.
You're overthinking it -- he doesn't "need" one because his father is a Syracuse employee, so he would be able to attend tuition-free.
 
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Tuition free by employees is based on income, so he might not be totally free. What if Buddy wants to live on campus? Scholarships also include many other costs.
He would receive free tuition through his dads employment, salary amount is not a precondition, ancillaries would, as you say, not be covered by that. I think his dad could cover those costs if he wanted to.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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He would receive free tuition through his dads employment, salary amount is not a precondition, ancillaries would, as you say, not be covered by that. I think his dad could cover those costs if he wanted to.
Pretty free with other people's money. BTW - there is an income test, but its inconsequential (10% reduction for the Boeheims.)
 
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Pretty free with other people's money. BTW - there is an income test, but its inconsequential (10% reduction for the Boeheims.)
Pretty free with other people's money. BTW - there is an income test, but its inconsequential (10% reduction for the Boeheims.)
I am not free with anyones money, but he could easily do it if he WANTED to.
 

tbonezone

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buddy don't need no scholarship. if he feels unequal BOOFREAKINHOO. free it up for a team mate to help you win
 
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pfister1

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if buddy is to be seen as an equal, who deserves to be on the court just as much as anyone else, and not just there because he is the coach's son

then he absolutely does need to be on scholarship

and on top of that, he deserves it
And why this continues to be a topic is beyond me.

Find 14 guys that we want and want to be here, then we can worry about whether JB is willing to use the employee tuition discount for Buddy so we can take the 14th kid. And no we don’t need to free up scholarships to give them to walk ons.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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buddy don't need no scholarship. if he feels unequal BOOFREAKINHOO. free it up for a team mate to help you win
Andy Rautins could have. LeRon Ellis. Lots of kids parents could have paid their way to SU.
For the last 3 decades, JB has been woefully underpaid by SU, by 10s of millions of dollars. JB put SU ball on the map.
SU can pay for his kid to play basketball.
 

RF2044

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Andy Rautins could have. LeRon Ellis. Lots of kids parents could have paid their way to SU.
For the last 3 decades, JB has been woefully underpaid by SU, by 10s of millions of dollars. JB put SU ball on the map.
SU can pay for his kid to play basketball.
Reading posts like this, I think you intentionally miss the point.

Nobody disputes Buddy's "worthiness." Nobody contests that he belongs nor that he is capable of excelling at this level.

However, after years of being short-handed, we have a semi-unique situation where we could add a contributor and not have him count against the scholarship limit.

This line of discussion has nothing to do with "worthiness," no matter what some would like to pretend, and instead has everything to do with roster flexibility and maximizing this semi-unique opportunity to add an extra player. Which some are conveniently overlooking in their zeal to validate Buddy's place on the program, which is not in dispute.
 
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rrlbees

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threads like this get crazy. first, we didn't use all our scholies so why shouldn't buddy get one like everyone. if jb saw fit to use every available scholie, I have no doubt jb would have buddy walk on. but I doubt jb ever uses every scholie. second, there is no income test. you get the tuition benny. it does not include room, board, fees, books, etc. sure jb can afford that ~$20k, but why should he if a scholie is available? plus buddy will get that extra stipend for his pocket money.
 

AlaskaSU

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And why this continues to be a topic is beyond me.

Find 14 guys that we want and want to be here, then we can worry about whether JB is willing to use the employee tuition discount for Buddy so we can take the 14th kid. And no we don’t need to free up scholarships to give them to walk ons.
And no we don’t need to free up scholarships to give them to walk ons.[/QUOTE]

Why not give the scholly to a walk on that needs the financial help???
 

Capt. Tuttle

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Reading posts like this, I think you intentionally miss the point.

Nobody disputes Buddy's "worthiness." Nobody contests that he belongs nor that he is capable of excelling at this level.

However, after years of being short-handed, we have a semi-unique situation where we could add a contributor and not have him count against the scholarship limit.

This line of discussion has nothing to do with "worthiness," no matter what some would like to pretend, and instead has everything to do with roster flexibility and maximizing this semi-unique opportunity to add an extra player. Which some are conveniently overlooking in their zeal to validate Buddy's place on the program, which is not in dispute.
You assume too much. For all we know, there was no one else to be added to the class. Had there been a worthy recruit who wanted to come to SU, I am sure JB would have massaged the scholarship situation.
Part of roster management is balancing out classes to maintain roster balance between classes
 

pfister1

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And no we don’t need to free up scholarships to give them to walk ons.
Why not give the scholly to a walk on that needs the financial help???[/QUOTE]


Well, because they all walked on, they all came to SU assuming they would get no athletic scholarship help. If there is a spare scholarship, then its fantastic that JB occasionally allows it to be used on a walk-on rather than let it go unused, but there is absolutely no reason for him to pay for his son so that a walk-on can get a scholarship. Once we get to 13 scholarship players on the roster, walk-ons aren't the essential team component that they are when we are at 10 or less.

Maybe JB should pay a walk-on's tuition every year whether Buddy is here or not?
 

RF2044

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You assume too much. For all we know, there was no one else to be added to the class. Had there been a worthy recruit who wanted to come to SU, I am sure JB would have massaged the scholarship situation.
Part of roster management is balancing out classes to maintain roster balance between classes
What am I assuming?

We didn't use all available scholarships, so it is a moot discussion. But if we'd had the opportunity to add another player, then it would have been a good strategy to have Buddy take advantage of the loophole and not be on scholarship, so that we can have 14 "scholarship" caliber players on the squad instead of 13. Maybe that will be something that manifests down the road, unlike this year, so that we can add that player -- or maybe it won't. I don't assume that it will come into play, because JB rarely recruits a full roster of scholarship players, but I do recognize that it would be a smart way to stash an extra player.

Said strategy doesn't imply that Buddy isn't deserving of a scholarship, imply that he won't be a major contributor throughout his career, or presume that the only reason he's here is due to being the head coach's son.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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What am I assuming?

We didn't use all available scholarships, so it is a moot discussion. But if we'd had the opportunity to add another player, then it would have been a good strategy to have Buddy take advantage of the loophole and not be on scholarship, so that we can have 14 "scholarship" caliber players on the squad instead of 13. Maybe that will be something that manifests down the road, unlike this year, so that we can add that player -- or maybe it won't. I don't assume that it will come into play, because JB rarely recruits a full roster of scholarship players, but I do recognize that it would be a smart way to stash an extra player.

Said strategy doesn't imply that Buddy isn't deserving of a scholarship, imply that he won't be a major contributor throughout his career, or presume that the only reason he's here is due to being the head coach's son.
So then you agree that Buddy on scholarship this year in no way impacts SU basketball.
Good
 

RF2044

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So then you agree that Buddy on scholarship this year in no way impacts SU basketball.
Good
I admit that if it had come down to adding an additional scholarship player like Osun Osunnyi or having Buddy on scholarship, then it would have been smart roster management to have Buddy not occupy a scholarship. -- and that the strategy might come into play / benefit the team at some point in the future.

But as stated above, you've intentionally chosen to miss the point in favor of arguing Buddy's scholarship worthiness.
 
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maxxyz

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What am I assuming?

We didn't use all available scholarships, so it is a moot discussion. But if we'd had the opportunity to add another player, then it would have been a good strategy to have Buddy take advantage of the loophole and not be on scholarship, so that we can have 14 "scholarship" caliber players on the squad instead of 13. Maybe that will be something that manifests down the road, unlike this year, so that we can add that player -- or maybe it won't. I don't assume that it will come into play, because JB rarely recruits a full roster of scholarship players, but I do recognize that it would be a smart way to stash an extra player.

Said strategy doesn't imply that Buddy isn't deserving of a scholarship, imply that he won't be a major contributor throughout his career, or presume that the only reason he's here is due to being the head coach's son.
A couple of serious questions;

Who could we have gotten in 2018 that we didn’t get?

Who would accept a scholarship from SU for 2019 knowing they were the 14th player?

What value is there to having a 14th scholarship player?

We can barely keep the 9-12 players on the team, much less someone who is added with zero hope of playing time. If I was the coach’s son on a college team, I’d want the scholarship to be on equal standing with the other players; same housing, same meal plan, same perks. Buddy will get enough grief about being the progeny of JB. The kids is a D1 caliber player, hopefully a P5 caliber player. He deserves a scholarship.
 

RF2044

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A couple of serious questions;

Who could we have gotten in 2018 that we didn’t get?

Who would accept a scholarship from SU for 2019 knowing they were the 14th player?

What value is there to having a 14th scholarship player?

We can barely keep the 9-12 players on the team, much less someone who is added with zero hope of playing time. If I was the coach’s son on a college team, I’d want the scholarship to be on equal standing with the other players; same housing, same meal plan, same perks. Buddy will get enough grief about being the progeny of JB. The kids is a D1 caliber player, hopefully a P5 caliber player. He deserves a scholarship.
What value is there to adding additional players? Respectfully, I'm not sure if that is actually a serious question, Maxx, given the compromised depth we've endured the past couple of years.

Our depth limitations due to injuries last year and the previous year left us in situations where we didn't have backcourt substitutes beyond the starters, and had to play a 185 guy at center.

Not all players envision coming in and starting right away. Some players [Baye Moussa Keita] recognize that they might never start. We've even had players like Matt Gorman -- who faced with the reality that he wasn't going to see meaningful playing time at Syracuse, still chose to stay because he loved the program. A player like Howard Washington wanted to be here -- it wouldn't have mattered if he was 11th, 12th, 13th, or 14th. Once he was here, he was fine with competing for PT and earning a spot in the rotation. And maybe down the road, he'll carve out a bigger role as a contributor -- maybe even as a starter. That's what I'd want to see from any player we bring in -- willingness to compete.

Ultimately, we should try to bring in the best talent we can, and manage the roster so that we can avoid having critical shortcomings in depth at the positions. It also means that you might take a flyer or two on a high potential kid [like Osunn Osunnyi -- sp?] who could develop into a quality player with a year or two of seasoning. Maybe if we got closer to the scholarship limit, then an injury or two or some unexpected attrition [I'm looking at you, Geno Thorpe] wouldn't cripple depth.

I certainly agree that JB rarely goes 9 deep. But that doesn't mean that the roster should ideally be managed to 10 or 11. Because all it takes is a bad break or two, and depth becomes a problem. We're finally emerging from the sanctions -- time to take advantage and build the roster back up. Buddy "deserving" a scholarship and being on equal footing with the other players [which seems like armchair psychology] is an entirely separate conversation from all of the above. He is a fine player, as evidenced from his time at Brewster / performance at AAU.
 

50YRsofCuse

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A couple of serious questions;

Who could we have gotten in 2018 that we didn’t get?

Who would accept a scholarship from SU for 2019 knowing they were the 14th player?

What value is there to having a 14th scholarship player?

We can barely keep the 9-12 players on the team, much less someone who is added with zero hope of playing time. If I was the coach’s son on a college team, I’d want the scholarship to be on equal standing with the other players; same housing, same meal plan, same perks. Buddy will get enough grief about being the progeny of JB. The kids is a D1 caliber player, hopefully a P5 caliber player. He deserves a scholarship.
Made 21 scholarship offers, 2-3 accepted (counting Buddy)
Missed on
Bryce Golden
Osun Osunniyyi
Simi Shittu
Eric Ayala
Quinnerly
Jalen Smith
Viadir Manuel
David Duke
Nate Roberts
Cole Swider
AJ Reeves
Robbie Carmody
Jenathan Williams
Cam Reddish
Louis King
Brandon Slater
Khalid Moore
Darius Bazley

In most eyes, the biggest miss was Bazley but, he originally came from nowhere, flew up the ranking chart and probably would have been more problems than expected. In my mind, Swider, Reddish, Smith and Shittu were the biggest names but did not want Syracuse in the end. Nate Roberts was there on Buddy’s prep team but chose Hop in Washington. I believe him to be a project.
 

AlaskaSU

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Why not give the scholly to a walk on that needs the financial help???

Well, because they all walked on, they all came to SU assuming they would get no athletic scholarship help. If there is a spare scholarship, then its fantastic that JB occasionally allows it to be used on a walk-on rather than let it go unused, but there is absolutely no reason for him to pay for his son so that a walk-on can get a scholarship. Once we get to 13 scholarship players on the roster, walk-ons aren't the essential team component that they are when we are at 10 or less.

Maybe JB should pay a walk-on's tuition every year whether Buddy is here or not?[/QUOTE]

JB would be paying a pittance for his son. Balance that pittance against what a full scholarship could mean to a person in need!
 

maxxyz

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What value is there to adding additional players? Respectfully, I'm not sure if that is actually a serious question, Maxx, given the compromised depth we've endured the past couple of years.

Our depth limitations due to injuries last year and the previous year left us in situations where we didn't have backcourt substitutes beyond the starters, and had to play a 185 guy at center.

Not all players envision coming in and starting right away. Some players [Baye Moussa Keita] recognize that they might never start. We've even had players like Matt Gorman -- who faced with the reality that he wasn't going to see meaningful playing time at Syracuse, still chose to stay because he loved the program. A player like Howard Washington wanted to be here -- it wouldn't have mattered if he was 11th, 12th, 13th, or 14th. Once he was here, he was fine with competing for PT and earning a spot in the rotation. And maybe down the road, he'll carve out a bigger role as a contributor -- maybe even as a starter. That's what I'd want to see from any player we bring in -- willingness to compete.

Ultimately, we should try to bring in the best talent we can, and manage the roster so that we can avoid having critical shortcomings in depth at the positions. It also means that you might take a flyer or two on a high potential kid [like Osunn Osunnyi -- sp?] who could develop into a quality player with a year or two of seasoning. Maybe if we got closer to the scholarship limit, then an injury or two or some unexpected attrition [I'm looking at you, Geno Thorpe] wouldn't cripple depth.

I certainly agree that JB rarely goes 9 deep. But that doesn't mean that the roster should ideally be managed to 10 or 11. Because all it takes is a bad break or two, and depth becomes a problem. We're finally emerging from the sanctions -- time to take advantage and build the roster back up. Buddy "deserving" a scholarship and being on equal footing with the other players [which seems like armchair psychology] is an entirely separate conversation from all of the above. He is a fine player, as evidenced from his time at Brewster / performance at AAU.
I think every player feels they should play in games. I'm not talking about starting, but just playing time. Depth is important, but so is team morale. JB doesn't play past nine deep. Its hard to see what the advantage it is to have a 14th scholarship player (likely not Top 100) except as another body at practice. Is that what a D1 athlete wants to be? A glorified walk on?

Would Tyler Bertram have come to SU to sit behind Carey, Hughes, Washington, Goodine, and the other guards that we will recruit in 2020? We lose players regularly that transfer because they feel they don't get playing time. Rumors of Howard Washington being unhappy abound. Would Dolezaj have come to SU without the thin roster and potential playing time?

Osunnyi is an example of a recruit we lost because of little available playing time at the 5. With Chukwu and Sidibe (and likely Marek as well) ahead of him it would have been at least a year of zero minutes. So he went to St. Bonaventure for pete's sake.

We are set for this year with eleven. Buddy & Howard Washington are our two guards we are "taking a flyer" on. Braswell also. We will likely have Hughes, Carey, Marek, Sidibe and maybe Brissett next year. We need to sign two guards, two forwards and a center and that's it. We need 8 players ready to play, with 3 more getting experience for next year, and a smart walk on to help the team GPA. Because that's how JB runs his team in 90% of the seasons, and more is not necessarily better.
 

RF2044

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I think every player feels they should play in games. I'm not talking about starting, but just playing time. Depth is important, but so is team morale. JB doesn't play past nine deep. Its hard to see what the advantage it is to have a 14th scholarship player (likely not Top 100) except as another body at practice. Is that what a D1 athlete wants to be? A glorified walk on?

Would Tyler Bertram have come to SU to sit behind Carey, Hughes, Washington, Goodine, and the other guards that we will recruit in 2020? We lose players regularly that transfer because they feel they don't get playing time. Rumors of Howard Washington being unhappy abound. Would Dolezaj have come to SU without the thin roster and potential playing time?

Osunnyi is an example of a recruit we lost because of little available playing time at the 5. With Chukwu and Sidibe (and likely Marek as well) ahead of him it would have been at least a year of zero minutes. So he went to St. Bonaventure for pete's sake.

We are set for this year with eleven. Buddy & Howard Washington are our two guards we are "taking a flyer" on. Braswell also. We will likely have Hughes, Carey, Marek, Sidibe and maybe Brissett next year. We need to sign two guards, two forwards and a center and that's it. We need 8 players ready to play, with 3 more getting experience for next year, and a smart walk on to help the team GPA. Because that's how JB runs his team in 90% of the seasons, and more is not necessarily better.
"We are set for this year with eleven..."

That is, until a player or two gets injured, someone has academic problems, or someone leaves the program. Suddenly, we're down to a bare bones rotation, with potential gaps at certain positional units.

By the way -- the things listed above have happened in recent years, it's not just sky-is-falling pessimism or looking at things through a glass half empty lens.

Consider what would happen if Chukwu injures a knee. Or Sidibe can't shake tendinitis issues even after having surgery. We'd have a critical depth situation again in the pivot -- and that would be with just ONE injury.

There is literally no downside to recruiting closer to having a full roster -- none. Bring in the best players you can, and let things sort themselves out. You don't just manage a roster looking at the present, it has to be constructed with one eye down the road. That's the only way to prevent an unexpected situation like an injury or attrition turn into a big problem that you aren't ready for.

And also, has it occurred to you that not every player is going to make an impact immediately? There's nothing wrong with having a few program guys who develop over time and end up having solid careers / being key contributors as uppeclassman. Having a foundation of program guys is something that was clearly missing under the scholarship restrictions, and a reason why we were caught flat footed when various situations compromised depth.

The sanctions are now in the rear view mirror -- time to start recruiting like it.

PS--we'll never know whether Tyler Bertram would have come here, because SU didn't actively pursue him. If they had, maybe the local prospect would have come here DESPITE those guys being ahead of him. And maybe he'd be able to carve out a niche and put together a solid career even if he had to wait his turn, a la Lazarus Sims.
 
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longtimefan

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"We are set for this year with eleven..."

That is, until a player or two gets injured, someone has academic problems, or someone leaves the program. Suddenly, we're down to a bare bones rotation, with potential gaps at certain positional units.

By the way -- the things listed above have happened in recent years, it's not just sky-is-falling pessimism or looking at things through a glass half empty lens.

Consider what would happen if Chukwu injures a knee. Or Sidibe can't shake tendinitis issues even after having surgery. We'd have a critical depth situation again in the pivot -- and that would be with just ONE injury.

There is literally no downside to recruiting closer to having a full roster -- none. Bring in the best players you can, and let things sort themselves out. You don't just manage a roster looking at the present, it has to be constructed with one eye down the road. That's the only way to prevent an unexpected situation like an injury or attrition turn into a big problem that you aren't ready for.

And also, has it occurred to you that not every player is going to make an impact immediately? There's nothing wrong with having a few program guys who develop over time and end up having solid careers / being key contributors as uppeclassman. Having a foundation of program guys is something that was clearly missing under the scholarship restrictions, and a reason why we were caught flat footed when various situations compromised depth.

The sanctions are now in the rear view mirror -- time to start recruiting like it.

PS--we'll never know whether Tyler Bertram would have come here, because SU didn't actively pursue him. If they had, maybe the local prospect would have come here DESPITE those guys being ahead of him. And maybe he'd be able to carve out a niche and put together a solid career even if he had to wait his turn, a la Lazarus Sims.
In recruiting--as in most anything--it takes 2 to tango. Just because our coaches might want to be 3-deep at every position doesn't mean that a good player wants to come to SU to sit behind two other guys.
 
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