Shafer: Allen in mix for starting quarterback spot

[OttoinGrotto]

Allen had been working with George Whitfield before he enrolled at Syracuse. Whitfield has worked with many good QB'S

Yeah, I think people on the board are having a hard time wrapping their heads around the kind of investments Allen has made in his own talent.

 

[Jeremy L.]

Allen left OU to play at Syracuse. There is no way he won't be starting when we take the field against Penn State.

 

[SmilinBob]

My question for this is if Hunt won the job, has a great year...would that hurt recruiting Long? I know he verballed and tatooed SU but if he has to wait 2 more years, would that deter him and have him look elsewhere or attract him because SU is the quarterback maker? I realize it may be over thinking this a bit but I always find that kids look at a lot of different things in their recruitment and this open qb vacancy if Allen or even Loeb are the starter would be far more attractive to a confident qb high school kid than waiting another 2 years. Long would be a redshirt soph so it wouldn't be that much of a reach I suppose.

I'd like to see what Wilson and Kimble add to this equation. I don't think they'll see the field at all but it would certainly be nice that they make the coaches want to pull that trigger because they were executing at a high level for a freshman.

 

[jekelish]

Yeah, he's a 6-5, 230 blue chip prospect and was one of the top 15 QBs in America in high school. He just happened to be behind a guy who finished his career #3 on the NCAA (FBS) all-time career passing yard list. He'd have started almost anywhere in the nation last year, bank on it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yeah, he's a 6-5, 230 blue chip prospect and was one of the top 15 QBs in America in high school. He just happened to be behind a guy who finished his career #3 on the NCAA (FBS) all-time career passing yard list. He'd have started almost anywhere in the nation last year, bank on it.

I think he can be all-ACC.

 

[iommi]

Yeah, he's a 6-5, 230 blue chip prospect and was one of the top 15 QBs in America in high school. He just happened to be behind a guy who finished his career #3 on the NCAA (FBS) all-time career passing yard list. He'd have started almost anywhere in the nation last year, bank on it.

Why wasn't Allen going to have a chance to compete for the OU job this year? Are they going with a new blue chipper? It just seems odd that a guy with Allen's high school credentials, who has shown loyalty to the program, wouldn't be given a shot (unless they want to turn the page and look toward the future?)...

 

[SmilinBob]

One thing we'll have to see are his checks...when a D takes what they are going to do away, what will he do? Nassib was a smart guy but it took him a while to get that part of the game down and Allen may be talented but he still hasn't started and got the reps in a season that actual game experience teaches you. Granted, he got more time than the other qb's and if McDonald is running something similar to what OU did that should help. PSU is going to have 8/9 guys in the box.

Damn, I can't wait for the season to start.

 

[jekelish]

Why wasn't Allen going to have a chance to compete for the OU job this year? Are they going with a new blue chipper? It just seems odd that a guy with Allen's high school credentials, who has shown loyalty to the program, wouldn't be given a shot (unless they want to turn the page and look toward the future?)...

Blake Bell passed Allen on the depth chart last year, I'm guessing because he's bigger (6-6, 263) and a better runner (24 career rushing TDs in two years despite being a backup). They also have a couple other blue chippers, as always. You don't become Oklahoma without having blue chip prospects at every position coming in every year, after all.

 

[iommi]

Blake Bell passed Allen on the depth chart last year, I'm guessing because he's bigger (6-6, 263) and a better runner (24 career rushing TDs in two years despite being a backup). They also have a couple other blue chippers, as always. You don't become Oklahoma without having blue chip prospects at every position coming in every year, after all.

My questions were almost rhetorical; I know that OU is always loaded. My concern is that if OU thought highly of Allen, wouldn't he be given a chance? It seems odd they wouldn't return his loyalty but it's a tough business. I don't know from what you guys are basing your confidence in Allen? I guess his high school credentials? He hasn't been given enough of a college opportunity to show his wares.:noidea: It's sort of a similar situation with Silent G on the hoops side; people are anointing him the next big thing but no one has really seem him play college hoops.

 

[CbusCuse]

Blake Bell passed Allen on the depth chart last year, I'm guessing because he's bigger (6-6, 263) and a better runner (24 career rushing TDs in two years despite being a backup). They also have a couple other blue chippers, as always. You don't become Oklahoma without having blue chip prospects at every position coming in every year, after all.

And maybe even more important he is younger. He is only a Junior. So if they are pretty close to equal why not go with the younger guy.

 

[jekelish]

And maybe even more important he is younger. He is only a Junior. So if they are pretty close to equal why not go with the younger guy.

This is true. To a much smaller degree this is kind of like what we'd have done with Loeb/Hunt if Allen never showed up. Sure, they may be on equal footing on a lot of levels, but you give it to the younger guy since he'll be in your program for more than one more year and this year's experience will get him REALLY ready for next year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Allen will have the starting gig wrapped up 5 days in to camp. He is superior to Hunt. its not close.

Granted that was his high school highlight tape, so his mechanics have probably been improved, but his release point on the ball is a little low, and he side-arms his delivery a bit. He's got great touch and sees the field well. He doesn't quite have the arm strength that Nassib showed as a finished product, but again, strength and conditioning for 4 years has probably greatly improved what we can see on this tape. Allen doesn't get too nervous in the pocket and can not only run, but is pretty elusive for a guy his size.

 

[billsin01]

One thing we'll have to see are his checks...when a D takes what they are going to do away, what will he do? Nassib was a smart guy but it took him a while to get that part of the game down and Allen may be talented but he still hasn't started and got the reps in a season that actual game experience teaches you. Granted, he got more time than the other qb's and if McDonald is running something similar to what OU did that should help. PSU is going to have 8/9 guys in the box.

Damn, I can't wait for the season to start.

This is a good post and I think the key for Allen.

For the record, I'm in the camp that thinks he starts for a couple reasons -- namely that you don't go recruit a 1-year guy unless you're pretty certain he can help in a big way. I also think we have to be aware that this kind of 'recruit' -- one-year guys -- are becoming more common in both hoops and football and you want to have some credibility with kids like this. We could conceivably get a kid like this every other year or every couple years.

The other thing in Allen's favor is that there is no established front-runner, let alone established starter. As well as Hunt has been reportedly doing over the summer, the fact remains that he has zero experience. I suppose none -- or very few of us know for sure -- but he could likely benefit from another year of seasoning.

But to Bob's point here -- a guy can have Marino's tools and not even start. Happens all the time. Dayne Crist was a marvel physically, but never quite figured it out. Jimmy Clausen had pretty good tools (a bit overrated physically) and all-world coaching and pedigree, but it took him two years to figure it out. Madei Williams and Troy Nunes were in completely different worlds in terms of athleticism and arm strength but it was Nunes who won the job.

The list goes on and on. I think Allen starts but how he handles the nuances of the position -- check downs, decision-making, pre-snap reads, etc. -- are every bit as important as his tools.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think Allen starts but how he handles the nuances of the position -- check downs, decision-making, pre-snap reads, etc. -- are every bit as important as his tools.

See, I just can't envision a scenario where Allen, with all of this extra, specialized coaching he has received, isn't just way better at those things than a New York City kid.

 

[billsin01]

See, I just can't envision a scenario where Allen, with all of this extra, specialized coaching he has received, isn't just way better at those things than a New York City kid.

Agreed -- I was talking more in terms of how successful he is in his year here. I would think he'd be fine but I just feel like QB is such a nuanced position it's tough to really know until the lights are on and the offense is on the field against the institution that encourages pedophilia.

Edit: I meant to suggest that there's a big difference between Allen coming in and throwing 18 TDs and 14 INTs while completing 55% vs. coming in and throwing for 25-30 TDs, ~7-8 INTs and completing 60+%. Either way, Hunt has a pretty tall mountain to climb for that starting job.

 

[SaltineWar]

That looks pretty athletic to me at least more so than our 4th round pick Ryan Nassib.

784 yards rushing is nothing to sneeze at

Jeez, Allen is HUGE.

 

[SmilinBob]

See, I just can't envision a scenario where Allen, with all of this extra, specialized coaching he has received, isn't just way better at those things than a New York City kid.

I agree but on the other hand Hunt knows the strengths of the players on offense better and how quickly can Allen learn those? I realize I'm parsing the position a bit here because I can't wait for the season to start but knowing where guys want the ball...when they break to receive the ball and so on. I'm not saying Hunt is going to win the job but I wouldn't sell him short either. Allen definitely has a lot going for him talent and football education wise along with having excellent size for a qb.

 

[money3189]

1) shafer and staff have to identify the top two guys early in camp. I think we all agree its Allen and Hunt. If its those two all the reps need to be given to them.

2) we can say what we want about Allen, and Im excited about him too, and yes he didnt transfer as a Sr. to sit the bench, but it kind of scares me that he only has 5 weeks to prepare for Penn St. Hunt had the whole spring and summer. Which QB gives us the best chance first game? Allen can pass Hunt when he gets more comfortable with the system. When that happens he may give us the best chance to win.

3) i think some of you are doubting Hunt's ability. He is very driven. Had some hardships in his life. He want to prove to everyone that he can do it.

 

[All4SU]

Begs the question. If Charley doesn't get the nod, will he be playing someplace else next year?

 

[Texas Otto]

1) shafer and staff have to identify the top two guys early in camp. I think we all agree its Allen and Hunt. If its those two all the reps need to be given to them.

2) we can say what we want about Allen, and Im excited about him too, and yes he didnt transfer as a Sr. to sit the bench, but it kind of scares me that he only has 5 weeks to prepare for Penn St. Hunt had the whole spring and summer. Which QB gives us the best chance first game? Allen can pass Hunt when he gets more comfortable with the system. When that happens he may give us the best chance to win.

3) i think some of you are doubting Hunt's ability. He is very driven. Had some hardships in his life. He want to prove to everyone that he can do it.

Hunt has had unbelievable hardships in life and other than one misstep which he apologized for and lost his spring last year for has been a role model. But Allen arrived on campus and has been dealing with the playbook for about 4 weeks now so I don't really see him being behind when camp starts plus he has had two more years in a major college system so actually could be ahead of Hunt as far as check downs and reads go. Personally I wish Hunt hadn't been stupid and missed out on a full spring season because I love that kid!

 

[Bayside44]

Begs the question. If Charley doesn't get the nod, will he be playing someplace else next year?

Where? Allen is an all Texas kind of kid, can come here, start in the ACC and get big league looks.

 

[RMH44]

Where? Allen is an all Texas kind of kid, can come here, start in the ACC and get big league looks.

It really doesn't matter because this is Loeb's 5th year. I believe he'd have to leave prior to this season to be eligible.

 

[All4SU]

It really doesn't matter because this is Loeb's 5th year. I believe he'd have to leave prior to this season to be eligible.

Ah... I was thinking this was CL's year #4.

 

[HtownOrange]

OU does not think they will play for th conference title this season. The decided that Allen had only one season left so they were going to let him go and hope that Bell improves this season. The logic is sound but having seen Bell live twice, OU should not hold their breath.

Bell was number two because he is huge and can rush and move a pile. There is no proof he was better at passing than Allen. However, Landry's passing was very good so there was no opportunity for Allen to display his talents.

I remain a skeptic until Allen proves his abilities in camp; however, discounting him because Bell "passed" hi on the depth chart does not tell the full story.

 

[All4SU]

OU does not think they will play for th conference title this season. The decided that Allen had only one season left so they were going to let him go and hope that Bell improves this season. The logic is sound but having seen Bell live twice, OU should not hold their breath.

Bell was number two because he is huge and can rush and move a pile. There is no proof he was better at passing than Allen. However, Landry's passing was very good so there was no opportunity for Allen to display his talents.

I remain a skeptic until Allen proves his abilities in camp; however, discounting him because Bell "passed" hi on the depth chart does not tell the full story.

So in other words, if everyone is equal, the younger guy gets it. So then Allen has to be clearly better than Hunt to earn the spot. Otherwise, SU has to play Hunt.