Sidibe's reaming early in the game.

[FrancoPizza]

It’s a difficult cover for a big, but you have to be ready and anticipate getting to the corner.

its more than difficult - it’s virtually impossible. Nothing good ever happens when the center attempts to fly into the bleachers. By reaming Sid he’s deflecting and making this all about the players.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Oh yeah, that called is going to get through fer sure.

Obviously Steve can word it better - there definitely is a valid question in there.

 

[malpearl31]

yeah. but you watch coach K and MSU and many others it happens all over.

Yep.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Easy Answer - what player is on the wing? Who is the bigger threat - the opponent’s ‘big guy’ inside or the player on the wing? Is it the player who decimated us with 3’s just 2 weeks ago and who we spent all practice emphasizing how the zone has to move to insure he doesn’t go off on us again or the opponent’s inside player that struggles to even get the ball less score against us? Are we going to play the old stagnant ‘tavern zone’ , slow to react or be a proactive zone that morphs and concentrates on the opponent’s most dangerous weapons?

Be ready to hear too that our other players practiced how to rotate and shade to help cover when our center goes to the wing to defend - just like we did when our previous centers like Paschal, Baye, Christmas etc had the exact same responsibilities. Looking forward to hearing your own call into Boeheim’s show to hear his answer.

The problem is the center is usually the slowest person on the team and he’s asking him to cover the most ground with an angle that guarantees he’s taken out of the play with nobody underneath to rebound. It doesn’t make sense. It’s a desperation tactic. If the wing is that important in that game then they should be in a 1-2-2.

 

[Oakland]

Just because others do it, doesn't make it OK. Many coaches get unreasonable mad, and behave badly, because no one holds them responsible.

Yep.

View attachment 175519

View attachment 175520

View attachment 175521

 

[upperdeck]

it makes sense if he is actually reading the floor and not re-acting to the floor. he should probably be 5-10 ft closer to the corner before it even happens..

the other night in the BC game. BC overload 3 to the side and had 2 in the normals spots at the top. the ball was rotating back and forth up top and he was sliding with it, but there was no one to slide over to.. that shows he is watching the ball too much and not the players on the floor.

ball U man.. and it needs to happen over and over and over during a set.. its the same reason we dont rebound like we can out of the zone.. we watch the ball too much as a team..

 

[upperdeck]

Just because others do it, doesn't make it OK. Many coaches get unreasonable mad, and behave badly, because no one holds them responsible.

maybe.. but also some kids dont react to normal talk and need the urgency to play better.. I never yelled much at my kidswhen coaching, but I also knew most of them wouldnt listen or understand anyway so why get so worked up. some kids can listen to instruction and most cant. If they did it in practice correctly there is hope for the game.

I mean how many here coached with people screaming and kids not listening and games on the line and needed a kid to not make a mistake. Sometimes its the yelling at one kid that gets the others to play better too. I agree they go over the top but maybe the worked on it 50 times in pratice and then in game he forgets playing nice doesnt always work.

 

[malpearl31]

Just because others do it, doesn't make it OK. Many coaches get unreasonable mad, and behave badly, because no one holds them responsible.

I don't really disagree with you... was just pointing out that virtually every high-level D-1 coach yells at their players. Someone had posted something along the lines of "if you want to get constantly reamed out, come play for JB" which is just silly, really.

Anybody on this board that played a sport beyond rec-level has been yelled at. I know I was.

 

[Mareiniss]

I don't really disagree with you... was just pointing out that virtually every high-level D-1 coach yells at their players. Someone had posted something along the lines of "if you want to get constantly reamed out, come play for JB" which is just silly, really. Anybody on this board that played a sport beyond rec-level has been yelled at. I know I was.

Name a successful D-1 coach who never yells at his players. It's what successful coaches do, because they want to win. They have to win, or else they're out. If a player is such a snowflake that he can't take constructive criticism, he should avoid successful D-1 coaches.

At least JB doesn't choke his players.

Bob Knight Chokes Neil Reed (YouTube)

 

[Cheriehoop]

That might have been the ream of his career.
maybe SU isn’t everybodys dream team...but if you want to be on a ream team...then SU is for you.

Personally I’m not a yeller but I know a few well known coaches who have told me that a player should worry the most when a coach stops yelling at them - that they have given up on the kid or have decided they aren’t capable of performing better. I’ve even heard the same from ex-players. Most use yelling as a last ‘wake up’ resort after numerous previous corrections, explanations at normal tones usually at practice, even games but they always know the player is more than capable. He also said that he knows some coaches who are absolutely crazy yellers at practices, in the locker room who sit almost like mummies at games.

One coach told me that he never yells at a kid who he knows is doing his absolute best, is working his tail off and just isn’t capable of improving right away - he saves it for the kids who he knows will in the long term regret not playing to his capabilities not just for the team’s success but his own personal development. He said wasted talent or effort really frustrates and saddens coaches and that if he himself as the coach didn’t truly care about the player and his team, he wouldn’t bother. He did say that a coach with true anger issues needs to find another profession but they are usually very few and far between because they either end up fired or they just burn out. Coaches probably have to be junior psychologists to figure out the right buttons, methods to teach and motivate so many diverse individual players. Just a different viewpoint.

 

[malpearl31]

Nothing good ever happens when the center attempts to fly into the bleachers.

Btw, this is the single greatest comment possible on a Syracuse Hoops fan message board. Nothing good ever happens when the center attempts to fly into the bleachers. Lol.

 

[Consigliere]

I know the team is playing better so everyone thinks coach walks on water again. JB is reacting impulsively like a fan instead of trying to look at the situation pragmatically. Breakdowns in a zone are almost always a result of someone else’s poor rotation. The center not getting out to the corner should be considered a desperation move. The corner will ALWAYS be open whenever a team overloads the wing. If it’s consistently open the coach should flexing to a 1-2-2 if he insists on staying in a zone. Somehow I don’t think he was telling Sidibe, “we’re in a 1-2-2 and you’re supposed to be shading to the wing!”

this would be a good question forThursday’s show: “Coach, when the center has to cover the paint and the wing, should we consider adding a 6th defender by splitting Sidibe in half?”

When the ball reverses on top, the ball side forward is responsible to guard the foul line extended-plus out to the three point line. Center has the corner and weak side forward slides to the paint. See Hakim Warrick and Michael Lee for a text book illustration.

 

[Consigliere]

Btw, this is the single greatest comment possible on a Syracuse Hoops fan message board. Nothing good ever happens when the center attempts to fly into the bleachers. Lol.

View attachment 175528

Great minds... See Melo, who was the weak side forward in the paint.

 

[Jzsshuttles]

Short of doing something really selfish i.e. shoving a player, taking a bad technical foul etc, undressing ANY player like that is a very bad look.
Today's players are used to adulation and people fawning over them since the 7th grade.

People like to blame the asst coaches for poor recruiting. Even bags of cash would have difficulty overcoming JB's behavior.

That’s the problem. These kids are soft today. Getting screamed at and held accountable for not following the game plan is part of any sport. Do you know how frustrated he must have been watching his starting center who’s been here for 3 years ignore the most important part of the scouting report in the first 2 minutes of the game?I’m glad he ripped him like that. Sidibe has been awful this year.

 

[Sudano]

Btw, this is the single greatest comment possible on a Syracuse Hoops fan message board. Nothing good ever happens when the center attempts to fly into the bleachers. Lol.

View attachment 175528

He better have, he just missed 2 FTs to put the game away.

 

[br801]

I don't really disagree with you... was just pointing out that virtually every high-level D-1 coach yells at their players. Someone had posted something along the lines of "if you want to get constantly reamed out, come play for JB" which is just silly, really.

Anybody on this board that played a sport beyond rec-level has been yelled at. I know I was.

Several years back, when my kid was about seven or eight, she and some of her friends attended a basketball clinic at a local college, run by the coach and her players. The following week, I took them to see the team play and we sat behind the bench, where they got a close up look at a very vocal, engaged and demonstrative coach. Naturally, they had questions, and I explained that part of this woman's job was to field a competitive team and win games, and that this was her particular way of doing so, and that other coaches approached things differently. This was Empire 8 women's basketball.

 

[UpstateSM]

Short of doing something really selfish i.e. shoving a player, taking a bad technical foul etc, undressing ANY player like that is a very bad look.
Today's players are used to adulation and people fawning over them since the 7th grade.

People like to blame the asst coaches for poor recruiting. Even bags of cash would have difficulty overcoming JB's behavior.

If a kid doesn’t want to play for us because he doesn’t want to get coached then I would argue we don’t want that kid in our program.

 

[TinyManInside]

See Hakim Warrick and Michael Lee for a text book illustration.

This is revisionist history. The center flying out to the corner to contest that shot was NEVER part of the zone back in 2003 and before. That was a rogue play by Warrick and literally the first time I ever remember an SU center coming out that far to contest a shot. In fact in that same season Boeheim gave Jeremy McNeil a tongue lashing for coming about about 12-15 feet towards the corner in one game, giving up an open lane (Georgetown/Sweetney IIRC?).

Now, if you want to cite examples within the last decade then I agree with you, it's a part of Boeheim's current zone schematic for sure, but it absolutely wasn't in 2003.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I don’t care what the plan was after practice. Having your slow footed 6’10” center sprint to contest a corner 3 pointer is more often than not a losing strategy, sorry. Rip him all you want for dumb over the back fouls, missing rebounds, not going up strong. But there’s a reason it’s a running joke on here when our centers are charging to contest corner threes.

 

[Consigliere]

This is revisionist history. The center flying out to the corner to contest that shot was NEVER part of the zone back in 2003 and before. That was a rogue play by Warrick and literally the first time I ever remember an SU center coming out that far to contest a shot. In fact in that same season Boeheim gave Jeremy McNeil a tongue lashing for coming about about 12-15 feet towards the corner in one game, giving up an open lane (Georgetown/Sweetney IIRC?).

Now, if you want to cite examples within the last decade then I agree with you, it's a part of Boeheim's current zone schematic for sure, but it absolutely wasn't in 2003.

Peace. And on reflection I agree. What has also changed though is that with the preponderance of the three point shot we use our wings to challenge the perimeter much more. I think that is one of the major adjustments JB has made over the years.

 

[NineOneSeven]

When the ball reverses on top, the ball side forward is responsible to guard the foul line extended-plus out to the three point line. Center has the corner and weak side forward slides to the paint. See Hakim Warrick and Michael Lee for a text book illustration.

Using probably the most athletic (not to mention significant) defensive play in Syracuse history by a player known for ridiculous hops and length is a terrible example for the argument. And yes the game is way different. You think Craig forth was charging to the corner? Come on now. Imagine that though?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Just because others do it, doesn't make it OK. Many coaches get unreasonable mad, and behave badly, because no one holds them responsible.

Lighten up, cupcake.

 

[Consigliere]

Using probably the most athletic (not to mention significant) defensive play in Syracuse history by a player known for ridiculous hops and length is a terrible example for the argument. And yes the game is way different. You think Craig forth was charging to the corner? Come on now. Imagine that though?

Fine. Example is a bit extreme but it is the theory upon which that specific zone rotation is based. If you want to debate whether or not it is an effective strategy, go ahead. But it is absolutely the way the defense is drawn up, was apparently a focal point in practice leading up to yesterday and the failure to execute - whether a reasonable expectation in your mind or not - is what set Boeheim off.

 

[Gabjon]

I don’t usually say this, but in this instance I disagree with JB. At least to the extent he took it. We had this discussion in the game thread and I commented it wasn’t as bad as it looked and that Sid was getting out there. After JB went berserk, naturally several posters jumped in agreeing with him and trashing Sid. One of the plays was even a fast break and people thought Sid was at fault they hit a corner jumper.

At halftime I reran the first few minutes and still felt the same way. Sid made an honest effort to get there. The one thing I don’t know is the whole cheating thing. Not sure what that means unless Sid was suppose to stay to that side of the lane and not care about any player in the lane which is kinda dumb.

After seeing this thread this morning I went back to the replay and took a few screenshots. I still contend Sid did his best and maybe there is an issue that caused him to be a split second late, it wasn’t at the level that warranted the over the top tongue lashing.

First one. He flew at him like everyone does and again, if he’s late it’s a split second.

View attachment 175512

Second one, same as the first. He’s there. If anything it’s a split second late but we never see the center get out there and block the shot.

View attachment 175514

This was the third one where we called timeout and the tongue lashing took place. It’s a secondary fast break. Half our guys are getting back and our center is never going to go straight to the corner. Never. The picture is when one player has the ball and is going to kick it to the corner. You can see we have a few players trailing.

View attachment 175515

I took a look at in again too and agree JB might have been a little hard on Sidibe.

The first play: There was no one in the lane and yes Sidibe needs to cheap over by taking a step or two towards the corner because the weak side forward is suppose to rotate down to cover the lane.

(Marek cheated a step or two over and covered the play much better)

The second play: Bede picked him a little but he needs to see that coming and not allow it to happen.

The third play: It was transition but now you let the guy get going.

The bigger issue is you can't allow teams run a simple "option A" actions against your defense and get good looks. No matter the defense you will lose doing that, if a team beats you running their B or C stuff you can live with that.

It's the beginning of the game their running the first option and getting 3 after 3. It can't be allowed

 

[bballbeadle]

They did, both when Sid was back or when Marek was playing there. They just missed.

Yup. I just re-watched.