Siena Basketball: GMAC / Blackwell / AO

[DoctahLexus]

and there were some tense situations occurring on campus at that time that people would have tied in. To think it didn't play a factor (small, medium, or large) is naive. Optics matter.

It was 2023 not 2020. And even then there is actual racism in this country that gets people justifiably riled up, not coaching hires. This would be us hiring one 12 year assistant over another 12 year assistant. Any optics would not stick long term, because you cannot look at that situation and actually say definitively that it is some kind of racism. Students weren't going to occupy a dorm hall over us hiring Gmac. CNN and NYT were not going to do multiple stories on us hiring GMac. That thinking is naive.

 

[Brooky03]

Among other things Red is not "far more experienced" than GMac. His additional experience compared to GMac is 2 years of high school coaching and 1 year as an assistant at VT. They both started as cuse assistant coaches in 2011. GMac has technically been here longer since he was a manager from 09-11. The only thing Red had on GMac is a made up title. Acting like this would be some kind of major racially tinged story line that would stick with us in the long term is just silly!! We chose Red over Gmac for reasons other than avoiding some kind of narrative, likely his relative success as a recruiter. Their resume's are close to identical aside from Red being older!

People vastly overestimate the extent people care about race in these situations. White candidates are chosen over black candidates for coaching positions every year. Can you even name a school that got accused of racism for a coaching hire choice? What would the headline for us even be? "Syracuse racistly chooses hiring 12 year assistant coach over other 12 year assistant coach" ??

The nuance of their experience relative to each other would probably not be something Stephen A. and the other talking heads would care about. How long it would stick with us wouldn’t be the issue; it’s how hot the story would be at that time.

We’re not talking about the average fan’s ability to consider all of the factors around the hire and decide if race was an issue. We’re talking press coverage and appearances/optics.

The NFL has a rule requiring teams to earnestly interview minority candidates and NFL teams still catch flak often when it’s perceived they passed up a qualified minority for a white bro.

 

[DoctahLexus]

The nuance of their experience relative to each other would probably not be something Stephen A. and the other talking heads would care about. How long it would stick with us wouldn’t be the issue; it’s how hot the story would be at that time.

We’re not talking about the average fan’s ability to consider all of the factors around the hire and decide if race was an issue. We’re talking press coverage and appearances/optics.

The NFL has a rule requiring teams to earnestly interview minority candidates and NFL teams still catch flak often when it’s perceived they passed up a qualified minority for a white bro.

Stephen A and guys like that would simply not give this the time of day because there is nothing actually there! You can't even remotely compare something like this to Brian Flores in the NFL. He actually sued multiple teams and accused them of sham interviews, and even then, have those teams taken any sort of legitimate reputational hit as a result? Did those teams lose fans or endorsements or anything like that? Any "flak" you catch is forgotten about in an NY minute.

 

[jdubs30]

 

[Brooky03]

Stephen A and guys like that would simply not give this the time of day because there is nothing actually there! You can't even remotely compare something like this to Brian Flores in the NFL. He actually sued multiple teams and accused them of sham interviews, and even then, have those teams taken any sort of legitimate reputational hit as a result? Did those teams lose fans or endorsements or anything like that? Any "flak" you catch is forgotten about in an NY minute.

We had an assistant coach (very likely) wrongfully accused of a crime and parents of recruits decided their kid would not be going to SU. A story about racism in a high profile basketball school’s hiring decision is in the wheelhouse of stuff Stephen A. would give the time of day. Even if it’s short lived, the perception of racism could/would do some damage.

 

[Dcuse]

Yeah, except….

Choosing the much younger, less experienced white guy,
Over the far more experienced black guy, who also had experience outside the Syracuse program,
and who had the title of AHC -
would’ve been a TURRIBLE look.

Red is objectively a better recruiter than Gerry.
GMac whiffed on the overwhelming majority of high profile croots he was the lead on.

Gerry’s “success” at Siena means nearly nothing.

He seems to be a better gameday coach, but that’s only because Red is the worst at that.

Bottom line: we should have NEVER gone with a continuity hire from JAB’s decayed coaching tree,
because the absolute last thing that needed to be done in that instance was ‘continue’ anything or anyone who had been a part of the prior decade of decline.

"Gerry’s “success” at Siena means nearly nothing."

I'm speechless. Gerry hate is alive and well.

 

[Orangezoo]

"Gerry’s “success” at Siena means nearly nothing."

I'm speechless. Gerry hate is alive and well.

Good lord no it’s not. I say that literally graduating the same class, being from the same area, playing against him in HS and knowing some of the family for more reasons than just the proximity. It’s not the right move right now for all parties and that’s said with the most respect and admiration for who he is and what he’s done not to mention it’s a great family. Just stop with the hate BS.

I would love nothing else than to see a NEPA guy who means so much to SU as well make it big as a coach and that also be eventually at SU. He’s got more to prove and seeing how Hop and now Red have struggled on a big stage is all the more reason behind that. He needs another step up in between or a couple more years before that is even a real conversation. That is more than fair. The Red decision wasn’t a good one but any continuity hire was unlikely to be Gerry included.

 

[DoctahLexus]

We had an assistant coach (very likely) wrongfully accused of a crime and parents of recruits decided their kid would not be going to SU. A story about racism in a high profile basketball school’s hiring decision is in the wheelhouse of stuff Stephen A. would give the time of day. Even if it’s short lived, the perception of racism could/would do some damage.

I have nothing else to say besides that I strongly strongly disagree. There is not an actual story here to latch on to. Stephen A talks about racism in sports, but he is not irrational to the point where he would try and stoke the flames of a school hiring one assistant over another assistant who had the exact same level of experience at the school. It's not like Gerry was some kind of volunteer assistant who just blew into town and no amount of media spin could make it appear that way! You would be hard pressed to find Stephen A talking about any similar coaching move at the college level. If he did he would be the one taking flak for trying to create something out of nothing, not Syracuse.

We live in a divided world with media on both sides that fan the flames for clicks, but it is not nearly as crazy as you seem to think.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

"Gerry’s “success” at Siena means nearly nothing."

I'm speechless. Gerry hate is alive and well.

I think what that post is conveying is that Gerry could be one of the top college coaches on earth, or just a mediocre one that will never get a shot at a P5 gig, and the results would probably be about the same at this point.

You just can't tell what the ceiling is yet, but I think everyone would agree that he certainly hasn't done a bad job.

 

[Cheriehoop]

View attachment 259825

Siena’s storied history of head coaches going on to be successful P5 coaches gives Siena a nice head start with choosing coaching candidates who aspire to moving to bigger and better opportunities.

 

[JustPherU]

I have nothing else to say besides that I strongly strongly disagree. There is not an actual story here to latch on to. Stephen A talks about racism in sports, but he is not irrational to the point where he would try and stoke the flames of a school hiring one assistant over another assistant who had the exact same level of experience at the school. It's not like Gerry was some kind of volunteer assistant who just blew into town and no amount of media spin could make it appear that way! You would be hard pressed to find Stephen A talking about any similar coaching move at the college level. If he did he would be the one taking flak for trying to create something out of nothing, not Syracuse.

We live in a divided world with media on both sides that fan the flames for clicks, but it is not nearly as crazy as you seem to think.

I’m not sure you aren’t underestimating how crazy it is. If you don’t think race would have been brought up had Gerry got the job then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Orangezoo]

I think what that post is conveying is that Gerry could be one of the top college coaches on earth, or just a mediocre one that will never get a shot at a P5 gig, and the results would probably be about the same at this point.

You just can't tell what the ceiling is yet, but I think everyone would agree that he certainly hasn't done a bad job.

Right. Also I think many folks need to look out and see just how coaching trees aren’t what people think they are I mean coach K has Scheyer with all that Duke money handed him but then ..

Capel (Pitt), Hurley( ASU), Collins(NW), Amaker(Harvard), Dawkins(UCF) as the most notable and two are on the hot seat, one is barely over .500 in his career and the other two are doing ok but Amaker had to step down after failing at the P4 level.

You can go through a number of other coaching trees that haven’t panned out and there isn’t really a good standard. Going out of the family and into finding a coach elsewhere holds a lot more value and success in general. Thus even should Gerry come back around in the mold of like what Roy Williams did after being a household name then sure but there is a lot more to be said for going outside coaching trees and continuity.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I’m not sure you aren’t underestimating how crazy it is. If you don’t think race would have been brought up had Gerry got the job then I don’t know what to tell you.

It truly is not that crazy! You and others are overestimating how crazy it is! Nothing would have stuck because there is nothing there! GMac is an all time legendary player at Cuse. Red obviously was great too, but GMac is on another level. They were working here for the exact same amount of time, Gmac for more years if you count his time as graduate manager. It's not like Red had multiple head coaching stints while Gerry was washing towels. There has to be at least a small bit of credible evidence of prejudice for a story like this to take off, and there simply isn't here.

 

[Irishsecra1]

I was told by people in the supposed know back then that Boeheim thought Gerry would be the better coach at SU. Had nothing against Red at all, just thought Gerry would perform better.

I was also told by others that Gerry was never seriously considered because the optics were bad.
Red had the better title, clearly wanted the job and had more coaching experience by a year or two.
It was feared it could cause more angst in an already screwed up handling of Jim's leaving.

I have no idea if any of that is true, that is just what I was told by several people.

I wish Gerry had gotten the job instead of Red. I think he would have done a better job, he certainly would have been a better in game coach.

I think Gerry has shown with the quick turnaround at Siena that he does have coaching ability.

The main reason I wanted Gerry is I thought he would never give up on making the team better, that he would hold his team accountable and that he would work his ass off.
I expected he would use the work ethic and accountability he displayed as a champion player to continually improve as a head coach, and I expected he would hold his players to that same standard.

In an earlier post, someone posted an interview JB had on Yes. He was asked which player overachieved the most in his career, he chose Gerry. The last question was who would you want in a foxhole with you to help you get out. He answered Gerry because he was the toughest guy he has ever known.