So about Anae, Beck and the OL | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

So about Anae, Beck and the OL

Millhouse

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
27,562
Like
31,395
This is a flaw in the offensive design imo.

Elmore has battled injuries. We don't have another player like him on the roster.

Given that, it seems very strange to pin so much of your offense on what that one guy brings.
The legend of Elmore.

I am not laughing at this stuff but I'm definitely smirking

It doesn't matter that there is no evidence of him making a big difference, we just know that he would've made us better than Clemson's defense
 

Orangello

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
9,369
Like
9,831
How do you know that? Benson and Morris can’t block and aren’t good enough receiving threats. Hoeh and Mang are blocking TE’s that play a role in our run game and max protect pass game. Benson and Morris are not good enough to keep TE’s in for passing situations. You have to understand personnel and how it fits into the whole scheme of the offense.
Benson had 19 catches and 3 TD's in his time here versus Mang who has 1 catch and Hoeh who has none I'd say that's a much better receiving threat. Do you even watch Mang or Hoeh miss blocks and get our QB killed ? Pretty easy to understand they both shouldn't even be on the field and Benson and Morris would be major upgrades.
 

money3189

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
8,839
Like
32,165
But you have to also have options. Clemson took away out one good WR. Tucker is hurt and they don't have confidence in the back ups. We just didn't have options against a much more talented team. When you're the underdog, you have to have your best players available to have a realistic shot.
What do you mean? Just run the same plays they ran in the first half. It was workin. Lol
 
Last edited:

money3189

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
8,839
Like
32,165
Benson had 19 catches and 3 TD's in his time here versus Mang who has 1 catch and Hoeh who has none I'd say that's a much better receiving threat. Do you even watch Mang or Hoeh miss blocks and get our QB killed ? Pretty easy to understand they both shouldn't even be on the field and Benson and Morris would be major upgrades.
What do their previous stats have to do with this year and how they can help this current team? I played TE in college. You need to be able to block too or it kills your offense. Those two never dominated in pass game. It’s cool to be a fan of them. I wish them both the best but I don’t see how they make this team 7-0 instead of. 6-1.

They are the best they have for those positions. Please tell me who you suggest should fill those roles on the offense? Because the scheme needs 11 and 12 personnel. They are not good enough to just run 4 wrs sets.
 
Last edited:

Cusefan69

All American
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
5,500
Like
13,218
The legend of Elmore.

I am not laughing at this stuff but I'm definitely smirking

It doesn't matter that there is no evidence of him making a big difference, we just know that he would've made us better than Clemson's defense
Actually agree here. I think Elmore has shown great blitz pickup over the years but Tucker did all of his running without Elmore. The biggest impact to our running game this year seems like the loss of Servais at center with better Guard push last year (different blocking schemes from what Schmidt did last year?) and coach Anae with a more passing centric approach.
 

Orangello

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
9,369
Like
9,831
What do their previous stats have to do with this year and how they can help this current team? I played TE in college. You need to be able to block too or it kills your offense. Those two never dominated in pass game. It’s cool to be a fan of them. I wish them both the best but I don’t see how they make this team 7-0 instead of. 6-1.

They are the best they have for those positions. Please tell me who you suggest should fill those roles on the offense? Because the scheme needs 11 and 12 personnel. They are not good enough to just run 4 wrs sets.
If you seriously think Mang or Hoeh can block I can't help you. They can't and shouldn't be on the field. You said Benson wouldn't be an upgrade over either. The facts state otherwise. Dominating the pass game ? Mang who as one career catch for 12 yards and Hoeh who has none = Inferior.
 
Last edited:

P Vasiloff

Murcerfan
Joined
Feb 2, 2017
Messages
1,147
Like
2,725
If you listened to Shraders post game presser, he flat out states he would like to see one other guy in the receiver room step up. That is a big part of what happened yesterday. Hopefully someone heard him and will rise to the occasion this week. Just please beat Notre Dame. Go Orange!!!
 

money3189

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
8,839
Like
32,165
If you seriously think Mang or Hoeh can block I can't help you. They can't and shouldn't be on the field. You said Benson wouldn't be an upgrade over either. The facts state otherwise. Dominating the pass game ? Mang who as one career catch for 12 years and Hoeh who has none = Inferior.
Seems you have zero understanding of personnel groupings and how they fit into how the offense runs. I didn’t say anything about them being the greatest blockers. I asked you what TE’s on the roster are better. So again. Who can the staff put in that is better, that allows them to run their offense the way they want?
 
Last edited:

IthacaMatt

Old Timer / Unofficial Contributor for 25+ years
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
20,256
Like
27,555
But you have to also have options. Clemson took away out one good WR. Tucker is hurt and they don't have confidence in the back ups. We just didn't have options against a much more talented team. When you're the underdog, you have to have your best players available to have a realistic shot.

Yeah, they may not have confidence in the backup RBs, but if Tucker can't run you have to play them. You have to give them a couple carries, just like they eventually let their backup QB make some throws. You have to do it (mix it up), or the defense can lean too heavily on stopping the one thing you're trying to do.
 

OttoinGrotto

2020-21 Iggy Award Winner 3 Point Shooting %
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
52,915
Like
143,231
If you listened to Shraders post game presser, he flat out states he would like to see one other guy in the receiver room step up. That is a big part of what happened yesterday. Hopefully someone heard him and will rise to the occasion this week. Just please beat Notre Dame. Go Orange!!!
So... great that Shrader said that and all, and I agree it would be great to have someone "step up," but we're also not spreading the ball around very well.

We've got an outside WR that catches fewer than a pass a game. The other outside WR looks like a shell of the guy that was probably our best guy last season. We got a guy working on a post doc that's been relatively solid, but not sure there's much more production to squeeze there. We have an intriguing slot guy that's been hurt a bunch.

I don't know if we solve this problem this season, but if we do, part of the solution involves Shrader targeting guys other than Gadsden more frequently.
 

SanDiegoCuse

2nd String
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
621
Like
1,968
So... great that Shrader said that and all, and I agree it would be great to have someone "step up," but we're also not spreading the ball around very well.

We've got an outside WR that catches fewer than a pass a game. The other outside WR looks like a shell of the guy that was probably our best guy last season. We got a guy working on a post doc that's been relatively solid, but not sure there's much more production to squeeze there. We have an intriguing slot guy that's been hurt a bunch.

I don't know if we solve this problem this season, but if we do, part of the solution involves Shrader targeting guys other than Gadsden more frequently.
This is fair. Would also love too see a package for Adams to get on the field to maybe to take a deep shot.
 

sufandu

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
12,851
Like
18,530
Yeah, they may not have confidence in the backup RBs, but if Tucker can't run you have to play them. You have to give them a couple carries, just like they eventually let their backup QB make some throws. You have to do it (mix it up), or the defense can lean too heavily on stopping the one thing you're trying to do.
That's what's interesting to me. When Wilson came in for Shrader when he lost his helmet a couple times early in the year they didn't hesitate to call pass plays for him. They clearly trust him. That's why I don't think they're the type to not trust a guy simply because he's young or new. For whatever reason they don't trust the backup RBs, which is weird because it's not as demanding as QB.
 

Millhouse

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
27,562
Like
31,395
So... great that Shrader said that and all, and I agree it would be great to have someone "step up," but we're also not spreading the ball around very well.

We've got an outside WR that catches fewer than a pass a game. The other outside WR looks like a shell of the guy that was probably our best guy last season. We got a guy working on a post doc that's been relatively solid, but not sure there's much more production to squeeze there. We have an intriguing slot guy that's been hurt a bunch.

I don't know if we solve this problem this season, but if we do, part of the solution involves Shrader targeting guys other than Gadsden more frequently.
I don't want Shrader trying to get through too many progressions. He already has the tendency to hang on to the ball, we only have one good target to throw to, and it's not worth losing his scrambling by asking him to do too much in the pocket

Hopefully the width of the offense helps make it easy for him to pick the right guy to lock on ahead of time. I just want that alarm to go off if it's not there

One read and go is fine with me unless they want him to zero read and go, that's also fine with me

Robin RJ Anderson part deux
 
Last edited:

ClkWrkOrange

2nd String
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
695
Like
582
What do you mean every game? Are you saying Hoeh does nothing right on the plays he is in?

I mean he commits penalties that either puts us behind the chains or kills drives multiple times a game. You said ppl (me, I guess) only notice the 1-2 penalties he commits and nothing else. This is a pattern, not a random here or there occurrence. I wasn't saying anything. I asked you a serious question because you seem to be knowledgeable about this. What positive does he bring to offset this? Bees at least gave me "good" pass pro.
 

rrlbees

2017 ESPN Tourney Challenge Winner
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
95,076
Like
178,057
Actually agree here. I think Elmore has shown great blitz pickup over the years but Tucker did all of his running without Elmore. The biggest impact to our running game this year seems like the loss of Servais at center with better Guard push last year (different blocking schemes from what Schmidt did last year?) and coach Anae with a more passing centric approach.

I liked Servais but last year he was the lowest graded run blocker of all OL that played at all and was only graded higher than Illoa and Tisdale for pass blocking.
 

money3189

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
8,839
Like
32,165
I mean he commits penalties that either puts us behind the chains or kills drives multiple times a game. You said ppl (me, I guess) only notice the 1-2 penalties he commits and nothing else. This is a pattern, not a random here or there occurrence. I wasn't saying anything. I asked you a serious question because you seem to be knowledgeable about this. What positive does he bring to offset this? Bees at least gave me "good" pass pro.
He provides the same things Elmore did. He adds another gap to the run game. Which allows them to run some of their gap concepts and zone reads. The extra gaps manipulates the front alignment and line backers. Is Hoeh as good as Elmore? No, but who else do they put in for that position? He obviously impressed the staff more than others did. He's a young kid. He will make mistakes and he will develop. He's a hard worker from what I hear.

I get frustrated when people point out 1 or 2 snaps a game and dont look at the rest of the snaps. The ones that are penalize are easy to point out and remember.
 
Last edited:

ClkWrkOrange

2nd String
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
695
Like
582
He provides the same things Elmore did. He adds another gap to the run game. Which allows them to run some of their gap concepts and zone reads. They extra gaps manipulates the front alignment and line backers. Is Hoeh as good as Elmore? No, but who else do they put in for that position? He obviously impressed the staff more than others did. He's a young kid. He will make mistakes and he will develop. He's a hard worker from what I hear.

I get frustrated when people point out 1 or 2 snaps a game and dont look at the rest of the snaps. The ones that are penalize are easy to point out and remember.

Ok, thank you for the response. I find his number of snaps to penalty ratio concerning is all.
 

javadoc

All American
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
5,535
Like
7,430
Not an expert, but it seems to me if GS could learn to trust just one more te/wr, he could key off Orande Gadsden’s excellence and use it against opposing defenses at certain points in games. Much like they have used Sean Tucker in the run game opening up GS on the ground.
I was thinking about this issue, and why he doesn't trust the other receivers as much. Early in the season we were spreading it around much more. I think we need better WR's, who instill trust.
 

OttoinGrotto

2020-21 Iggy Award Winner 3 Point Shooting %
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
52,915
Like
143,231
I was thinking about this issue, and why he doesn't trust the other receivers as much. Early in the season we were spreading it around much more. I think we need better WR's, who instill trust.
At least in the games, I don't think the receivers did anything to give the impression they can't be trusted. Maybe they suck in practice?
 

anomander

Living Legend
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Messages
13,342
Like
23,355
Yep. Sometimes the opposition is just better.

If you’re asking yourself “that hasn’t happened all year, maybe we’re not good at blocking” it’s probably the thing that did change, the team you’re playing
The thing is we did run block successfully in the first half but we went away from it for some reason in the 2nd half that I will never understand
 

PhatOrange

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
26,380
Like
39,351
I've been a broken record here. The staff does not seem to think they can get it done. Why? Beats me. Not all freshman are ready to play right away and Price wasn't good enough to beat out Allen.

He probably fumbled once in August :rolleyes:
 

SmilinBob

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
10,399
Like
8,169
I wrote this in another thread but it's definitely the past OC's schemes that has hurt the TE depth. No one that's talented at blocking and receiving wanted to go to SU to just block. Anea has changed that but he has to work with what he has and hopefully we will see a difference from Mang and Hoeh in the receiving aspect of the equation.

We always see mistakes as Money said and there have been some glaring ones but let's hope these 2 continue to improve because they are needed too...ASAP.
 

PhatOrange

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
26,380
Like
39,351
If you listened to Shraders post game presser, he flat out states he would like to see one other guy in the receiver room step up. That is a big part of what happened yesterday. Hopefully someone heard him and will rise to the occasion this week. Just please beat Notre Dame. Go Orange!!!

I would flat out like to see him throw it to another receiver.

though I think he’s throwing it to the wr the play calls for so I won’t completely crush him for it.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
161,834
Messages
4,421,485
Members
5,679
Latest member
Lamizana43

Online statistics

Members online
253
Guests online
799
Total visitors
1,052




Top Bottom